How about football ?
1st Rd Qual 16 play as 4 x 4-team round robins instead as well ?
4 x Top 3 in each group (Pots B1, B2, B3) drawn against '8 Prov SF + 4 Final' losers (Pots A2, A1) in 24-team Rd 2.
4 x (B3 host A1) and 8 (B2/B1 host A2).
4 x Prov Champs + 12 Rd 2 winners enter 16-team Open Draw Rd 3.
Or, 4 x Top 2 to 20-team Rd 2 and 4 Champs to Playoff Rd.
2 x Playoff Losers + 10 Rd 2 winners to 12-team Rd 3.
2 unbeaten Champs + 6 Rd 3 winners to AI QFs.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2608 - 01/05/2016 18:53:15    1851176

It is a great win for Kerry. It was their first game at this level of championship. Westmeath had a good championship last year. They are off to a great start this year. Kerry v Westmeath will be a tough game. It looks to be advantage Westmeath. I think Offaly will finish in the top 2 avoiding Galway.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7865 - 01/05/2016 19:04:57    1851177

Just as I thought my hurling predictions couldn't have been any more inaccurate todays games involving Meath and in more particular Westmeath!

Firstly, regarding the Kerry Carlow game happy to get the win but a big improvement will be needed to get any joy in the next 2 games. Carlow had a rake of wides in the first half and should have had at least a 3/4 point lead. We only played in fits and starts with John Tweeky Griffin and John Egan the best on show.

Finally must congratulate Westmeath on a fabulous display, I underestimated their chances big time and must take my humble pie tonight. Based on todays result they are virtually guaranteed a top 2 place even if they lose next Saturday such is their point difference.

KYTitletown (Kerry) - Posts: 816 - 01/05/2016 21:56:54    1851204

That is far from the truth. Just say next weekend Offaly beat Carlow and Kerry beat Westmeath. If Offaly beat Kerry both will be on 4 points and let's say Carlow beat Westmeath. Then Westmeath will be relegated. It happened Antrim last year, they got a great win in the first round against Laois and got beaten by both Westmeath and Carlow and are now hurling in the Christy Ring.

hurlingguru (Carlow) - Posts: 1834 - 02/05/2016 11:03:56    1851242

Very true these Leinster round robin games tend to all over the place.Westmeaths advantage is they have started with a healthy points difference.
Home advantage is hugely important.If my memory is right all six games last year were won by the home team.This suggests Kerry and Offaly are in pole position.

jobber (Westmeath) - Posts: 1459 - 02/05/2016 12:05:00    1851270

Let's say Kerry beat Westmeath (which is a big presumption based on yesterday) by 3 points.

Both Kerry and Westmeath would be on +11, which means Westmeath wouldn't have to concern themselves with scoring difference vs Carlow and just go out to win. Whereas even if we win by 3 we'd still be looking over our shoulder against a dangerous wounded animal in Offaly in Tullamore.

So in essence only a heavy defeat next week (10-15 points) would put Westmeath off course for a top 2 finish and that just isn't going to happen. Of course they could lose their next 2 but I don't see that happening based on yesterday's games as Kerry and Carlow would both have to play much much better to beat them.

We do have the advantage of being at home next week however I should point out just last year we lost 3-18 to 0-12 to them at home so they'll have no fears whatsoever of playing in Tralee. Hopefully the decent crowd we got in Tralee will be even larger next week in what promises to be an exciting game

KYTitletown (Kerry) - Posts: 816 - 02/05/2016 12:32:42    1851288

Funny to see how Kerry can get home matches in Leinster championship and Galway cannot. It doesn't say much for the Galway members who agreed to going into Leinster. They should withdraw from Leinster unless they get some home matches. Their underage teams are not allowed compete in Leinster because they would have reasonable chance of winning games, unlike the seniors

suggs (Leitrim) - Posts: 3 - 02/05/2016 13:02:10    1851300

The qualifier group offers all teams some home games. Kerry would not have a home game in a Leinster quarter-final if they were ever to progress that far. If Galway lose to the qualifier group winner, they will get at least one game in Galway in next years round robin.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7865 - 02/05/2016 13:30:38    1851312

You can have home games in qualifiers but not in actual championship. What's the difference in playing Westmeath/Carlow in either category ? Illogical.

suggs (Leitrim) - Posts: 3 - 02/05/2016 13:43:57    1851315

What's illogical is a Leinster provincial championship with teams from all four provinces all because of the sacrosanct Munster hurling championship

jobber (Westmeath) - Posts: 1459 - 02/05/2016 14:10:10    1851320

It is abit crazy suggs to allow home matches in one part of the competiotion
but not in others.

But the Gaa treat the qualifers as second class citizens and make it up as
they go along which is why all the teams play 3 championship matches in 3 weeks

Imagine selling that to Cody or Davy Fitz !

Regarding galway underage teams not being allowed in leinster, my understanding
is that it is galway who prefer to stay out and put their teams straight into the
semifinals/quarterfinals at underagelevel.

carlovia (None) - Posts: 1517 - 02/05/2016 14:28:25    1851328

Jobber, you are dead right !

Wait till Offaly get put down to Christy Ring and watch the system change.

If it was Westmeath or Carlow there would be no issue.

They wouldnt even promote your team this year to protect you from the strength of div 1A !

carlovia (None) - Posts: 1517 - 02/05/2016 14:35:41    1851333

Not correct Carlovia. Galway applied on several occasions to enter Leinster C'ship underage. See below

Galway angry with Leinster Council











1















Friday, November 07, 2014

By Eoghan Cormican




Galway GAA chiefs have blasted Leinster Council's decision not to allow the county's minor and U21 teams join the province, calling on Croke Park to intervene in overturning the result of Wednesday night's vote.




Leinster Council delegates opted to block Galway's application for full integration in the province, with hurling board chairman Joe Byrne yesterday describing the decision as "selfish".


"It is disappointing that the Leinster Council and, indeed, the Leinster counties would take the view that we are not welcome at minor and U21 level which sort of makes you think that the only reason we are welcome at senior level is because we are of benefit to the financial coffers of the Leinster Council," said Byrne.

suggs (Leitrim) - Posts: 3 - 02/05/2016 15:29:46    1851356

Why no footage of either of the qualifier matches on the Sunday Game last night? I wonder will TG4 have any tonight...

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 02/05/2016 15:52:15    1851362

Interesting suggs..I stand corrected. .might a better fit be for galway to go underage in munster from a travel point of view..I know antrim play in the leinster minor leagues and its no big deal

carlovia (None) - Posts: 1517 - 02/05/2016 16:58:49    1851384

Agree Carlovia.The five Munster counties protecting their precious championship whilst Leinster has to let everyone in including a Munster County beggars belief.The whole provincial nonsense must end now and a proper All Ireland structure set up to promote the game and not the interest of an elite few

jobber (Westmeath) - Posts: 1459 - 02/05/2016 17:06:46    1851387

RTE have the rights. Not TG4 so expect nothing.
The GAA and RTE don't care about games outside of the top counties

manfromdelmonte (UK) - Posts: 541 - 02/05/2016 18:52:12    1851416

jobber (Westmeath)
Agree Carlovia.The five Munster counties protecting their precious championship whilst Leinster has to let everyone in including a Munster County beggars belief.The whole provincial nonsense must end now and a proper All Ireland structure set up to promote the game and not the interest of an elite few

I agree that corralling everyone into Leinster is poor form, and that Munster counties should not be silo'd from relegation to the qualifier group. I've stated such on a few threads, and that Kerry should play in a Munster QF if they come out of the qualfier group. But where are people getting the notion that its all down to some Machiavellian scheme from the Munster counties, that they're somehow blocking Kerry's entrance to the Munster SHC? Where is that information located? With all due respect to Kerry hurlers, do ye really think any Munster county would object to them playing the Munster championship? Kerry DID play in the Munster SHC until 2000, but withdrew themselves after shipping heavy defeats for a number of years.

Its more down to the GAA's top brass heads thinking Leinster is generally an easier province for up developing to play in (incorrectly, playing Kilkenny, Galway or Dublin in a QF is no different than playing Tipperary, Clare or Cork). Its also due to not thinking through the full implications of a competition structure when they adopt it. It happened again a few months ago when they adopted Antrim's proposal to let that years Christy Ring champion play in a Leinster QF.
In general, as an entire body, the GAA don't care enough about hurling to implement a cogent championship, or to think through potential changes. Personally, even though I love teh Munster championship, I think the sooner we move away from a provincial championsip system, the better.

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 02/05/2016 21:23:46    1851457

Fair play Jd Marlon I don't think there is any plot but for the good of hurling we need to move on.Counties like Westmeath,Carlow,Antrim,Laois Kerry and maybe even now Offaly need the concentrated help Dublin have received if we are to move up the ladder.The three midland counties are all pretty similar relatively small populations majority football clubs with a committed hurling minority.Hurling needs more than ten counties but despite all the platitudes do the traditional counties really want that

jobber (Westmeath) - Posts: 1459 - 02/05/2016 21:49:58    1851460

Lads, this is new territory for Kerry so can someone clarify something for me.

If Kerry come in the top two places of the round robin and go on to play Laois or Galway, I assume they are in the Liam McCarthy properly? So if they lose the match to Laois or Galway I assume they can avail of the backdoor and be in the first round of the hurling qualifiers?

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 05/05/2016 09:39:16    1852160