Coaching is the key issue. In Dublin the clubs are so huge there is a very strong availability of well informed and experienced parents and coaches. In places like Kildare and Meath there would be more examples of coaches taking on teams with no real prior experience. In Dublin the kids are gaining a better standard of coaching due to a greater spread of talent in this area. Kilkenny and Kerry have probably the best underage coaches in the country at club level as they have such a keen understanding of the game(s)

sportsfan14 (USA) - Posts: 281 - 01/04/2016 10:02:55    1839962

DUBJOHN

It's very frustrating for Meath fans to watch us either go nowhere or get worse year on year and then the cherry on the cake, knowing the county board are incapable of making a positive, forward thinking decision. Dublin got their house in order and I again I agree, you can receive all the money in the world, but if it's not invested wisely then it's not worth anything to you. Also of course you need to be blessed with great players which Dublin currently are and we were in the past.

Anyway I think I've said on here recently that I wouldn't give the county boards of the last 15 years monopoly money never mind real money, they'd be absolutely guaranteed to screw it up some way. Politics and stupidity has cost us dearly in Meath, plain and simple, however fixing the problem is far from simple.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 01/04/2016 10:09:23    1839967

Seems to me a few of the Meath lads solving the players from all blame.The county board is getting it in the neck,and has been for quite some time.-Any time i've seen Meath over the last few years some of the players look totally out of their depth.I think Dublin's near absolute dominance over the province has broken the spirit of the players.And supporters judging by the pessimism on this forum.Most Leinster counties never really believed they could beat Dublin.It might happen once in a blue moon.It's sad to say that Meath and Kildare have that submissive air of defeat about them now.Leinster football is done with.We are flogging a dead horse.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 01/04/2016 10:33:50    1839988

*absolving the players from blame

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 01/04/2016 10:38:46    1839990

I can only speak for my own county but i genuinely believe we are the only ones in Leinster who can knock the Dubs off their perch in the next 5 years. Meath will rise again too, i hope.

11jm11 (Kildare) - Posts: 365 - 01/04/2016 10:46:28    1840000

Better standard of coaching? What do you think these coaches are telling us that one else is getting? Complete myth imo, we go out to train like every other county or club team there's no great coaching secret lads. I honestly think country folk think we're doing something totally different up here to everywhere else. They've this picture in there head of Rocky 4 were Dublin is the Russian with all the best of training and their Rocky stuck in the woods with nothing.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 01/04/2016 10:49:12    1840002

clondalkindub - Sadly there are good and bad coaches out there. Do you know how many FULL TIME Gaa coaches Dublin have compared to Kildare or Meath. Coaching at underage does make a difference in the development of good players....it's like having a bad or good education.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11232 - 01/04/2016 10:56:51    1840008

JayP

There has been some very good Meath v Dublin games over the last 15 years despite our decline, the trouble is barring 2010 we've been settling for 2nd best and I worry that 2014 was huge setback that may take some time to recover from. If we meet this summer I would genuinely worry as a Meath fan that it could be a 20pt+ Dublin win, such is the awful set up we have at the minute.

But you're right to get things in order we do need an overhaul and to start from the bottom up with player development, trouble is I can't see that happening under the current county board.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 01/04/2016 11:03:22    1840021

Ziggy

To be honest,I think the last 4 years have been the worst I have seen from a Meath team in my lifetime.I honestly don't think the players are that bad.But the manager is incapable of putting any tactical print on the team and this is his fourth year.Honestly you would swear this was his first.He has no idea what his best team is, at this stage you should have some idea.But whats worse than all that,its clear that the players have zero believe in their own ability,but also what they are trying to do as a team.It would be interesting to see another manager at Meath to see if he can get a bit more out of the players,because at the moment we are worse than we were when Mick took over...

Spot on ziggy, this is exactly what we're dealing with at managerial level at the minute, ie no apparent game plan, poor fitness levels, clueless about his starting team and not only no motivation but actually puts the players down!

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 01/04/2016 11:09:45    1840027

clondalkindub - Sadly there are good and bad coaches out there. Do you know how many FULL TIME Gaa coaches Dublin have compared to Kildare or Meath. Coaching at underage does make a difference in the development of good players....it's like having a bad or good education.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts:7200 - 01/04/2016 10:56:51 1840008

yew-tree
I can honestly tell you this my lads on a DS for three years and for two years was coached by a lad who lives in an adjacent estate down a current serving member of an garda , he was unpaid .
Were the majority of coaches are is in the schools and partly in clubs , we have a GPO who oversees parents who ARE the club coaches of which theres over twenty in boys section alone , then he will do summer camps Easter camps were he will over see over a hundred children of varying ages , its just my opinion but my lad is with DS like many many many other lads though his own hard work talent and a bit of talent .
Regards finances of coaching in Dublin it goes on getting the GAA message out there in schools primarily , look at all the development squads they are run by ex players .Having met many a parent that model is not very different in many counties the big exception being the investment in schools GAA.

Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 01/04/2016 11:17:26    1840031

Yew tree so you believe only for good coaching Jack McCaffrey ,James McCarthy, Ciaran Kilkenny, Dean Rock, Paddy Andrews ,Cormac Costello, Cian O Sullivan , Kev Mac would not be playing for Dublin ?

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 01/04/2016 11:23:51    1840036

cuederocket

We're certainly not absolving the players from blame, other posters and myself included have lamented them for throwing in the towel (particularly when we've had large leads) and pointed out while the manager is hopeless he isn't the one out on the pitch giving up. But from an outside point of view you probably don't understand just how bad our County Boards have been for 15 odd years. They are without a doubt the main reason for our consistent decline, please don't take that as an excuse, they really were/are awful.

Just to give you an example, 13 years ago in Meath we had a competitive county champsionship where you could only afford to lose 1 game or you were out, it was 4 groups of 4 you see. Then the CB decided to go with this crazy idea of 2 groups of 8, which would mean you could lose 4 games and still become Meath champions. Boylan pleaded with them not to change the structure, arguing that it would kill the competitive edge in Meath football but they ignored him.

The championship has changed a bit over the years but they still haven't fixed it (for instance you can still lose 3 games and become champions or you can lose 4 and not even have to fight off relegation) and you'd have to say Boylan was right, it did take away that urgency to win.

Also of course our underage structures just aren't good enough, although I was taking to a former underage officer recently and he reckons things have improved a lot over the last 2-3 years, but we'll wait and see.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 01/04/2016 11:27:17    1840038

I think Jimbob has hit the nail on the head.

Dublin has way more resources, money and full time coaches than any other county in Leinster. Thats a fact. Now if some people want to live in their own little world and pretend that that has no effect whatsoever then good luck to them. Its naive beyond belief but sure anyway! But again its not the fault of Dublin GAA that theyve been given this and made the most out of whats been given to them. What does irk me though is this ignorance that the only reason other Counties arent up with Dublin is because they arent working hard enough or smart enough etc in reference to John O Leary's comments and many others on here and what seems to be the basis of this thread.

But thats only half the battle, for example if the GAA turned and gave another county in Leinster the same funding as Dublin for the next 10 years are they suddenly going to be up there challenging the Dubs for major honours, no they arent, its much more complex than that.

Taking money and full time coaches etc from Dublin and giving it to other counties in Leinster isnt going to address the matter at hand fully. It will help but Dublin will absorb whatever losses they suffer and continue on regardless. Dublin is a juggernaut i full expect to dominate for years to come. But trying to take the wheels from under the juggernaut isnt going to help those trying to catch up or the GAA as a whole.

Like the country as whole Dublin is the centre for everything, thats life in modern Ireland as we see it and the GAA is just reflecting that and until that changes in society and rural ireland gets more the rural ireland and the GAA in those areas will continue to suffer, sending a few extra quid down the sticks isnt going to change that totally.

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1338 - 01/04/2016 11:35:56    1840041

Even is Kildare to come good ; how long will that take ? And will Dublin still win 12/13 of the next 15 Leinsters ?

TheRightStuff (Donegal) - Posts: 1688 - 01/04/2016 11:45:39    1840053

We have convinced Jim McGuinness to leave Celtic and take over our clubs u13 team. They've been leaking goals recently!

JayP (Dublin) - Posts: 1772 - 01/04/2016 11:45:59    1840054

HTAEM

To what degree did the coaching officer say things were improving?

I have watched the U14's(now U15's) and they seem to be good and well coached,but that could be just that group..

ziggy32001 (Meath) - Posts: 8354 - 01/04/2016 13:18:52    1840121

I would like to go on the record not for the first time in stating as someone who grew watching mighty games and getting beaten by Offaly Kildare and Meath , years older new foes Laois and Westmeath emerged I miss a competitive Leinster as a GAA fan first and foremost the summer is worse off for the lack of competitive games , I genuinely do not enjoy a wait till August state of affairs ,
If looking at how money is spent is the answer I am not opposed to a distribution of funds .
If capping what is spent is the answer I am open to fair debate on what that is.
However what guarantees exist that county boards given additional funding would use it correctly , as many on here attribute negligence at County board level as a major factor in decline in standards in Leinster.
What guarantees are there that counties can turn excellent juvenilles minors into the final package ?
No one is against a fair and competitive province , but is it a case of bringing counties up to Dublin standards or dragging Dublin down to lesser standards ? if the latter result would be similar however we would have no county capable of competing outside of leinster .
Fairlpay to all the lads who took a look at their own county and how it operates and although difficult to swallow accepted some faults cannot be passed onto others .

Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 01/04/2016 13:44:01    1840130

ziggy

I just had a brief chat him about football ziggy (I was talking to him in a canteen with a couple of people around who have no interest in football so we kept it brief), but he basically pointed to the exact age groups you mentioned and also u16. He said that underage development had stagnated a little under Barney Allen but that we're getting structures in place now and that the coaching is getting better (in exactly what way I don't know).

Now I'm not really sure if he's right or not in what he says but that was the man's opinion and I sincerely hope he's right!. But as you said, this may just be a good group of players and given our very high drop out figures in Meath (I think they were released last year), you'd wonder how many of them will actually come through to play minor and ultimately senior for Meath.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 01/04/2016 13:52:25    1840137

Fairlpay to all the lads who took a look at their own county and how it operates and although difficult to swallow accepted some faults cannot be passed onto others .
----

+1

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 01/04/2016 14:14:23    1840154

Htaem

Thats the key,keeping as many of these kids playing as possible,we need to be doing more there.

ziggy32001 (Meath) - Posts: 8354 - 01/04/2016 14:21:50    1840160