Wexford and Offaly are not at anywhere the same level as Clare and Limerick. Albeit they are in the same division. I think that if Offaly and Laois amalgamated then it could be the start of people getting real about increasing the competition levels in hurling. Also an Ulster team could compete and a rest of connacht team.

bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1710 - 29/03/2016 19:28:38    1839031

That aimed at me bloodyban?

m_the_d (None) - Posts: 1099 - 29/03/2016 20:15:18    1839060

A more flexible solution is needed for hurling - whatever that is. We all agree that we need more competitiveness and more competitors. Counties are responsible for themselves to some degree. However when teams seem to be making progress (such as Carlow were and Kerry are), the GAA needs to keep giving them as much competition at a high as level as possible.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 29/03/2016 21:51:04    1839096

If the league were changed to divisions of 8 with 2 up 2 down I think it has the potential to be a shot in yeh arm for hurling in weaker counties.

Wexford, Offaly, Kerry, Antrim, Laois, Carlow, Westmeath, London would all fancy their chances of working hard and playing their way into division 1.

Division 1 would be competitive, there isn't that much between Clare and Limerick and the current top 8, the likes of a Cork could definitely get displaced from division 1 in a season where all the top teams are in the division. Every 2 years the division may be a little weaker but that's only if the current order remains intact. A top division of 8 where Wexford, Offaly or one of the other teams gets a more regular shot at the big guys could only be good for the game in those counties.

At present hurling is such a closed shop, it always comes across to me that any changes brought in are only there to help out the big guys.

I don't think it's a coincidence that the number of challengers come championship time has dwindled in the years that the 6 team division 1 has been in existence.

Also let's get rid of these stupid playoffs.

They're only there to beef up the number of games. That would be solved by having more actual league games.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4241 - 29/03/2016 21:54:11    1839098

Everyone saying 2 Divisions of 8 with 2 up and 2 down did not work in hurling, hence the current system was brought in. Effectively it was the same teams going up and down, and after 2 or 3 rounds the league had panned out and matches were 'less' competitive.

So why going that to this system is going to work now?

witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 30/03/2016 08:20:09    1839106

witnoff is correct.
The 8 team league meant that the big teams could win the odd game and then ease off the gas and we'd terrible non entities of games for the better part of an elongated league which ate into the dates available for club hurling (remember club hurling).
We now have back doors, round robins and what not, yet the top teams rise to the surface come August and September irrespective of what leagues we have in place.
Waterford got to the AI semi-final from Div1b, Limerick also managed it a few years back and gave Kilkenny their fill of it on a wet day in Croke Park.

The leagues are fine the way they are, the crowds are up, the games are interesting and most teams are fielding full strength, even Kilkenny, so why change it?

Caveat 1. That relegation should be immediate if you fail to pick up a point, i.e. Cork and Laois should be relegated without playoffs. There should also be direct promotion from Div2A into Div1B.

bricktop (Down) - Posts: 2503 - 30/03/2016 09:25:51    1839119

Hurling is fast becoming an elitist game, Changing the leagues around every few seasons will make no difference here.
What will make a difference is a proper strategic review and subsequent investment that will bring improved standards in the 'weaker' counties.
What is somewhat baffling to me is the apparent continue downward trend in some of the traditional counties, Wexford and Offaly.

Glensboy (Antrim) - Posts: 290 - 30/03/2016 09:29:31    1839120

Glensboy...you forgot to mention Antrim (unfortunately) in your last line :)

witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 30/03/2016 09:46:05    1839128

wexford way behind clare?there was only 3-4 points in it when the teams played a month ago....
i think the current 6 team league is excellent,it is competitive and no game is unimportant.how it should be.
leave well enough alone.

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 30/03/2016 10:31:56    1839149

Did I read a limerick poster mention amalgamating offaly and laois? ??? When we are at it look at joining limerick and kerry together and maybe a senior all Ireland mite return to the treaty county in over what? Nearly 50 years..
what we need is proper promotion of hurling... The likes of Antrim is a proud hurling county but due to location the Is a forgotten pocket of the game.
my own county wexford don't know if they want to play hurling or football as most clubs are duel, as a result we are a jack of all trades and a master of none!!!@
The game is elitist with the top 6 counties after that the gaa is happy to have hurling as an exhibition game is the rest

tonydoranfan (Wexford) - Posts: 550 - 30/03/2016 19:23:57    1839427

The quarter-finals and relegation play-offs are there to give every team a sixth game. Surely by that logic all teams in 2A should also be afforded a sixth game.

The relegation/promotion play-offs e.g. between 1B and 2A is an absolute disgrace. If you are gone, you are gone and that should be the end of it.

When the top two divisions of 8 were in place there a few years ago, all the complaining was coming from the Division 2 runner-up. 2 up and down would have been a solution.

If we are to keep the current system, a different approach needs to be taken. While it's not ideal, within the current structure they could allow two rounds of regular league games between teams in 1A and teams in 1B. The 1A final then should be contested only by the top 2 teams in 1A. The top team in 1B should win the division without a final and take automatic promotion.

The second placed team in 1B should take on the 5th placed team from 1A in a promotion/relegation play-off. Promotion/relegation play-offs are unfair when it involves the bottom team and top team from the division below. Promotion/relegation play-offs are fair enough between second bottom and second top of the division below.

The bottom team in 1B should be automatically relegated.

2A and 2B could take on the format suggested above.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7886 - 30/03/2016 21:07:31    1839464

Witnof- I am delighted that you would consider Antrim one of the 'traditional' hurling counties. :) Sadly many at the top table and in positions of influence do not share your view. Recent media comments regarding Cushendall in the club championship crystalize this. The reality is that when you consider the lack of a strategic plan, and all that this would involve, to raise standards in counties like Antrim. We absolutely need a super nucleus of about 10 players every year to ensure that we are competitive. It only takes a handful of injuries to, or unavailability of, key players to make us uncompetitive. We are not perfect but our level at the moment is fair. One thing is for sure. If we had the same number of coaches that Dublin hurling has, we would be in a much better place. Not a dig at Dublin, good luck to you, but a fact.

Glensboy (Antrim) - Posts: 290 - 31/03/2016 09:29:41    1839511

Glensboy still think one of the biggest issues in Antrim is that the players never leave their clubs behind when playing for the county. Always thought the same thing about Galway hurling. The club rivalries are never parked at the door when they walk into the county scene.

How they are down in Division 3 is more than a shame it is a disgrace when you think about it.

witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 31/03/2016 10:55:01    1839558

Wexford are a long long way behind Clare. They beat Clare in 2014 and that was an anomoly. If Clare get their best team out they could beat Kilkenny in an All Ireland. Wexford wouldnt come close.
Not to be too down on Wexford folk here but Limerick hurling competes with Rugby and thats a professional sport. Out of an Irish rugby squad there is usually 4 or 5 from Limerick. Thats phenomenal. So each county has its issues and yes 50 years without an All Ireland is desperate stuff.

bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1710 - 31/03/2016 12:16:55    1839607

Bloody ban. Your comments bout offaly amalgamating with laois and wexfords win over clare in 14 being an anomaly are well below the belt from a county that has not won an all Ireland in nearly 50 years, get over 94 and 96 as it's well over 20 years at this stage. Antrim needs help from the gaa not team ulster rubbish talk!!! Offaly wexford and Antrim are proud hurling counties and I can tell you now that hurling in wexford is struggling.... These counties need help from within most importantly but also from outside!@@
At the moment hurling is fast becoming elitist for the top 6 counties with the help of the football controled gaa and the structures they have in place.
outside of the top 6, hurling is no more than a exhibition sport!!!!!! Are limerick in the top 6????? They need to use the talent at their disposal because they are not quite there yet and can fall into the exhibition category very easy.
gaa needs Dublin in the top six for profile and cash, f the rest

tonydoranfan (Wexford) - Posts: 550 - 31/03/2016 14:04:44    1839648

To Legendz -
Why not have two 'mixed quality' groups
6 in 1A plays 6 in 1B (3 home, 3 away)
Top 4 of 12 to KO SFs (incl both group winners, or not)
Bottom 2 down / 2 up from similar 12-team Div 2
I don't think this is too convoluted - do you ?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2631 - 31/03/2016 17:52:26    1839800

Yeah its a good idea. The Americans are good at thinking outside the box.

bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1710 - 01/04/2016 09:57:00    1839961

"Why not have two 'mixed quality' groups"

It's been done before.

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 01/04/2016 12:45:30    1840108

The hurling league is a conumdrum. Ennis is supposed to be a sell-out. It shows there is interest from the 1B winner for the quarter-finals. Waterford had a great knock-out run after winning 1B last year.

I can understand the desire to give teams a sixth game. It is no excuse though for the relegation play-offs. Different teams have finished the bottom of 1B and should have gone down. It's up to counties to bring a motion to end these play-offs.

The teams finishing last should be relegated automatically. They might only have 5 games but it's the penalty for relegation.

The 1B winner could take on 4th of 1A in the only quarter-final.

1A
1-3: league semi-finals
4: league quarter-final against 1B winner.
5: promotion/relegation play-offs against 2-4 from 1B.
6: automatically relegated.

1B
1: automatic promotion and league quarter-final.
2-4: promotion/relegation play-offs.
5: promotion/relegation play-offs against the 2A runner-up and 3rd placed team in 2A.
6: automatically relegated.

2A
1-2: 2A final. Winner promoted. Runner-up into promotion/relegation play-off against either 5th from 1B or 3rd from 2A.
3: promotion/relegation play-offs.

The 2A winner should be automatically promoted. The team finishing 5th in 1B should take on the 3rd placed team from 2A. The winner of this game should take on the 2A runner-up for the final 1B place.

Kerry finished 5th in 1B this year. I would have no problem with our county entering such a play-off. If we had finished 6th, I would have had no argument over straight relegation after 5 games.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7886 - 01/04/2016 17:53:37    1840297

Adding another team to each division would mean more dead rubber games. That would mean that this weekend we would have a number of dead rubber games. Instead however, this weekend we have several games and every one of them is a big game. Leave it alone!

ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 693 - 02/04/2016 13:39:27    1840494