Could a rule where a cynical foul gets brought forward 14 yards work. Any cynical foul inside the 20 is a penalty? A lot of cynical fouls happen outside scoring zones by bringing it forward you move it into the scoring zone.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4236 - 02/02/2016 18:04:58    1821722

it would be interesting to have a one-off programme dedicated to the playing rules of gaelic football and how they are being implemented. I just watched a rerun of the Monaghan v Roscommon game there and it is unbelievable how many wrong calls (according to the GAA rule book ) were made (or no calls made, when they should have been). I know sometimes Ref's don't see an incident as clearly as we see it on TV but therein lies part of the problem. Far too frequently Refs are not up with the play and are making calls from too far away. Also some refs must have never played the game as their decisions smack of ignorance of what a player is actually trying to do.

One example I see a lot of , especially in wet and slippery conditions. A player is running with the ball, An opponent comes in to tackle., The first player tries to skip past and in so doing slips and goes down, at the same time the opposing player is trying to make a legitimate tackle but because the player in possession loses height because of the slip , the defender ends up "high tackling" his opponent. Now anyone should be able to see this i.e. at the moment of contact the man in possession's head is at the height that his waist (or the ball) would normally be . However the ref blows for a foul (correct, if the player is caught around the head or shoulders) but then the ref inevitably flashes a yellow card.. WRONG. Now don't get me started on the issue of 3 or 4 players surrounding a player and mauling him to the ground so the player can't release the ball and a free is given against him. The black card is another rule where refs clearly are getting it wrong a lot of the time. Towards the end of the aforementioned match there could have been 2 or 3 definite black cards but the ref didn't seem interested (God only knows why, maybe he thinks "a Shur the game's nearly over, what's the point" or he thinks " shure Haven't I given a few black cards already". The black card that he gave to Ciaran Murtagh was wrong as he was trying to make a tackle and the player he was tackling either slipped or went to ground deliberately bringing Murtagh down on top of him. Anyway the rule is stupid. How can an offence where you deliberately and cynically pull a player's jersey to stop him in his tracks be not deemed worthy of a black card (or any card) whereby an innocuous tackle which results in the tackled player hitting the deck be automatically deemed black card territory. The rule should be amended to include deliberate/cynical pulling of the jersey or body so as to halt the progress of an opponent. Anyway that's just a few examples. The game is riddled with fouls that are not punished. It would be good to see a whole game scrutinized from start to finish against the rule book. It would make for very interesting viewing.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 04/02/2016 16:30:47    1822291

Sin bin, sin bin, sin bin!
People calling for the sin bin are missing the point - couldn't the rules for the sin bin be as equally poorly implemented as the rules for the black card are being at present? The black card and the sin bin are actually very similar as regards punishing the offending player. In fact you could probably call the black card the sin bin, with the only difference being they don't come out again but rather get replaced... How is it any different as regards punishment of the offender? They both have to get called by the ref! If refs are getting the black card wrong then why cant the same happen with a sin bin?

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 04/02/2016 16:44:35    1822297

For Philly McMahon to miss the whole game for that was extremely harsh also is Jonny Cooper suppose to pull out? Two very harsh black cards.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 08/02/2016 10:03:24    1823331

For Philly McMahon to miss the whole game for that was extremely harsh also is Jonny Cooper suppose to pull out? Two very harsh black cards.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts:7012 - 08/02/2016 10:03:24

Missed McMahon's card but Cooper was very hard done by. Not a black card in a million years

Superglue (Kerry) - Posts: 1283 - 08/02/2016 10:31:16    1823340

I think it was harsh Clondalkin but I don't think the ref had any option with Philly. The ref only has one look and it looked a deliberate trip. The sin bin is the obvious solution but the lunacy that is rule change at Congress perennially stands in the way of progress.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 08/02/2016 10:36:48    1823346

Green grass it was very harsh nothing in it, imo he got it cause of his reputation , sin bin is 100% better than missing the whole game for that.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 08/02/2016 10:42:43    1823350

How the ref can give Philly McMahon a black card for his interaction and cooper for his interaction yet just before bastick scores his point a mayo player clearly takes jack McCafrey out if it off the ball to stop him getting forward after he gives and takes a couple of passes. The level of consistency for both teams is a big problem.

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 08/02/2016 11:04:15    1823363

It was definite a deliberate trip by McMahon and deserved a black card. About five seconds before the trip incident he had a mayo player held on the ground off the ball. maybe the card was for that offence.

mrfox (Wexford) - Posts: 338 - 08/02/2016 11:14:07    1823369

McMahon's looked deliberate to me, so I was pleased to see the ref give the black card. A lot of refs have bottled those over the two years and have given yellows in those spots where it's been early in the game.

Cooper's was a bad decision.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4236 - 08/02/2016 11:14:26    1823370

I thought Philly's was justified.

The whole black card situation is a bit of mess and has been since its introduction.

Noble intentions but ill thought out in the end.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13718 - 08/02/2016 11:34:55    1823385

Coopers was harsh, McMahon's was correct.
McMahon and Cooper constantly play on the edge and often get involved in pushing and shoving. If you are going to act the hard men ref's are going to remember you.....look at Paul Galvin/Ryan McMenamin. McMahon is always mouthing at ref's no matter if it was the most blatant foul.....going to have to learn not too give ref's any opportunity.

The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 2088 - 08/02/2016 11:48:05    1823398

I would have to side with the black card rather than the sin bin. Refs have to make an instant interpretation of a tackle which they may only have partly seen. If the get it wrong with the black card, as they often do, you have the opportunity to replace the player unlike the situation with the sin bin. Refs get a lot of abuse for making mistakes but their is little doubt but players, and perhaps managers, should shoulder much of the blame as all kinds of ruses have been adapted to con the refs. Honest challenges and the reactions to them have been removed almost completely from the game. Opposition players are being intentionally targeted. Until we get a bit of honesty back into the game no card or sin bin will make any difference.

neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 08/02/2016 19:48:08    1823684

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=250242

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13718 - 09/02/2016 11:49:35    1823870

The reason they are still at it is because they are still getting away with it most of the time.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 09/02/2016 12:17:13    1823883

Players and managers know alot of the black cards that are been given in the league will not be given in the big championship games because a lot of the time referees bottle it in the big games.

mrfox (Wexford) - Posts: 338 - 09/02/2016 13:20:07    1823931

Thanks god I am not the only person who seen jack McCafrey being blatantly third man tackled as Marty Morrissey even pointed it out on league Sunday that it deserved a black card. Nobody on here seems to look at the decisions not given as that to me is what I look for when a ref gives one for one team and not to the other teams for the same infringement that's the real problem. Against Kerry in the first game several times in the first half a Kerry player was being fouled and the ref played advantage while signalling the arm in the air he then pulled it back and awarded a free in that Kerry kicked 3 problems possibly 4 points from, yet at the other end in that half Dublin player's were fouled and got the shots off and got no score from them and there was no advantage signal and no free awarded. They can be big game changers in tight games and can cost you a match.

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 09/02/2016 20:16:48    1824197

It really is tiresome reading posts from a couple of guys who never see any fault with their own team & reckon that the other team gets away with murder all the time.

Lads, it's time to wake up & smell the coffee, every county team is cynical & gets away with whatever they can get away with. Referees make mistakes, same as the players & managers. It is a bloody hard game to referee as the playing surface is huge, the ball travels quickly & the players are up to all sorts.

I can't accept the notion that refs are biased & am of the opinion that things even themselves over the 70 minutes so please take the tinted glasses off, stop the whinging & give us all a break.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 09/02/2016 21:31:53    1824238

Exactly muckross.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 09/02/2016 21:58:05    1824248

The black card is and always has been a complete and utter farce.

The idea of the black card was to stop cynical play, it hasnt worked, in fact cynical play has increased. Its a farce, its basically an opportunity to bring on a sub for a cynical foul, thats it. You given everything for 60 mins and are spent, you commit a cynical foul and on comes a sub to replace you. A fresher man for the final 10 minutes. An example is a team like Dublin with a squad full of players each equally as good as those starting. What you have is a top class player replacing another top class player after a player performs a cynical foul that may have stopped a match winning move or score. The punishment for the offending team is a free and a fresh man on the pitch. Its a rule that favours the stronger teams with more depth.

It has brought diving and feigning more into the game. Why wouldnt it in fairness. If you can dive, worst case scenario for you is a yellow card and you remain on the pitch whereas on the flip side your man is gone for the game.

It isnt enforced because the rules are crazy. Pull of the jersey is a yellow card unless the man falls to the ground in which case its a black card unless the pull wasnt strong enough for the player to fall and he has dived to the ground and in that case what it should actually be is 2 yellow cards for each player. Is it any wonder referees are struggling?

In regards to the sin bin there are a couple of things. The 1st time it was introduced was a typical GAA move. It was a hybrid of the current black card system and the sin bin. So yes you could be sent to the sin bin and a replacement sub brought on for the 10 mins which of course was a complete and utter cluster.... It was impossible to keep track of and was dropped rightly.

The 2nd time it was tried it was shouted down by many many well known top managers at the time for a simple reason in my eyes. It had the ability to actually hurt their teams at the time. The issue as i remember at the time was that every yellow card offence was a sin bin offence which doesnt work. In rugby a sin bin is used mainly for cynical play or a case where there has been numerous incidents of the same offence from the same player. From memory 2 of the most vocal managers against it were Mickey Harte and Sean Boylan whos teams might have been known for being a bit physical.

I think the sin bin could definitely work if implemented properly but it isnt a case of simply replacing the black card with a sin bin and that solves all our woes, its going to take a bit more than that.

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1349 - 10/02/2016 09:11:45    1824267