The GPA's championship proposal was too long & drawn-out of a season. Clubs would never back it & there'd soon be a real split in the association. A lot of the players from the lesser lights are complaining that it's not a level playing field at the moment (can't compete with the top counties/too many hammerings etc.) yet when a half-decent proposal is forwarded they're "outraged" & it's a "disgrace".

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 19/01/2016 15:45:07    1817710

Dump them, especially in football. They belong to an era when the horse and cart was the main mode of transportation and the All Ireland had to be regionalised by necessity. now we can get from end of the country to the other in a few hours. 90% of the time they're won by teams who don't care about winning them. The teams who a provincial championship would mean something hardly ever win them.

Replace them with the template that exists in every county in Ireland i.e. senior, intermediate and junior competitions. Top 20 into the SFC (4 groups of 5), next 20 (include 7-8 reserve teams) into an IFC & a JFC for the rest of the second strings (and the very weak first teams). Promotion and relegation between the 3 championships, maybe even qualifiers for the SFC. Not only would we have a better top grade competition which would be far easier to schedule with a positive knock on effect on club football we'd also have a proper competitive second (and third) tier comp because there would be something meaningful at stake.

Trial this for 3 seasons, we'd see the provincial system for what it is, a complete anachronism long past its sell by date.

TheCartownBus2 (Leitrim) - Posts: 42 - 19/01/2016 16:30:08    1817730

Replace them with the template that exists in every county in Ireland i.e. senior, intermediate and junior competitions. Top 20 into the SFC (4 groups of 5), next 20 (include 7-8 reserve teams) into an IFC & a JFC for the rest of the second strings (and the very weak first teams). Promotion and relegation between the 3 championships, maybe even qualifiers for the SFC. Not only would we have a better top grade competition which would be far easier to schedule with a positive knock on effect on club football we'd also have a proper competitive second (and third) tier comp because there would be something meaningful at stake.

Trial this for 3 seasons, we'd see the provincial system for what it is, a complete anachronism long past its sell by date.

TheCartownBus2 (Leitrim) - Posts:2 - 19/01/2016 16:30:08

so you would have a county's reserve team playing in a IFC or a JFC and their first teamin the senior champ. so not alone would the big teams continue to dominate the senior but the same county would win the Intermediate and/or the Junior.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 19/01/2016 18:03:33    1817757

Look ShaggyKev,

Its the same thing as I've been saying on the Tommy Murphy thread:

We love to complain about the present system and say it needs to be changed, but then when someone comes up with an idea its shot down for this or that reason.

Sure look I did that myself with your proposal a few posts above, although now that you have clarified what you meant the issue I raised isn't so big a deal.

Either you keep the Status Qua or you do something more drastic, like your idea or the idea of some two-tier All Ireland once the provinces have been played.

Either way the GAA has to grow some backbone and force change through, if that's what they want to do. There will always be bellyaching. You just have to show leadership and put in a system and have the courage of your convictions to give it a decent chance to bed in.

What we have at the moment is the watered down compromise that is the qualifiers which has been here for 15 years and seems to have solved nothing in the long run.

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts:981 - 19/01/2016 14:15:14 1817654


People are not rejecting the Tommy Murphy 2.0 because it is a change I'd they're scared of not keeping the status quo. They're rejecting it because it is a stupid competition that has already been tried and tested and has failed. Why would you want to bring back a proven failure.

I'm not against a second tier championship, it just needs to be well designed and meaningful. I think it's possible to do that.

It'd be possible to have a top tier of 20 teams. 5 groups of 4, group winners into quarter-finals. Group runners-up into playoff round. Second tier competition of 12 teams. Winner of the second tier joins the 5 A runners up in the playoff. The 3 winners progress to the quarter-finals.

That's a way better competition. There's a meaningful prize available for winning the second tier competition. That's what fans and players need to get behind this idea.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 19/01/2016 18:43:24    1817770

I wholeheartedly agree with Donegalman and have proposed the same idea before.
Throwing Dublin into Munster every five or six years(less often than an Olympics or World Cup) would suddenly turn the duopoly of Cork and Kerry into the most exciting province that year and give the other Leinster sides light at the end of the tunnel without the big blue juggernaut and raise their confidence for the season after when they return.

Its no big deal for each Ulster team to forgo the Ulster championship once every nine years in the interest of the game as a whole

THE BIG PICTURE

Once we have an even eight in each province, matches can be set in stone so teams know they will have championship football every four weeks. If they win, they play in the semi-finals but if they lose they would have a qualifier on the same weekend. No replays at this stage and it means club fixtures could be mandatory to be played in between the four weeks so the whole system doesn't grind to a halt and nobody loses out.

The fixture list would be unmovable so players and fans can plan with certainty and the provincial system can be maintained and actually enhanced with a few more novelty pairings year on year without losing local rivalries. Its a win win win. Leinster council could be compensated the year Dublin move out if airgead is a problem.

Here is a potential fixture list

03-May Four Provincial quarter finals(2 Munster+2 Leinster)

10-May Four Provincial quarter finals(2 Ulster +2 Connacht)

17-May Four Provincial quarter finals(2 Munster+2 Leinster)

24-May Four Provincial quarter finals(2 Ulster +2 Connacht)

31-May Two Provincial Semi finals(Munster+ Leinster )& Qualifiers for teams eliminated in week one and two

07-Jun Two Provincial Semi finals(Ulster+ Connacht)

14-Jun Two Provincial Semi finals(Munster+ Leinster )& Qualifiers for teams eliminated in week three and four

21-Jun Two Provincial Semi finals(Ulster+ Connacht)

28-Jun Second round of Qualifers for sides eleminated in week one and two

05-Jul Munster football final

12-Jul Leinster football Final & Second round Qualifiers for teams eliminated in week two and three

19-Jul Connacht and Ulster football finals & Beaten Munster finalist meets qualfier

26-Jul Beaten Leinster finalists meets qualfier

02-Aug Two All ireland Quarter finals & Beaten Connacht and Ulster finalists meet qualfiers

09-Aug Two All ireland Quarter finals

16-Aug Blank for intercounty football

23-Aug All Ireland semi final

30-Aug All Ireland semi final

06-Sep Blank for intercounty football

13-Sep Blank for intercounty football

20-Sep All Ireland final

shaggykev (Donegal) - Posts:137 - 19/01/2016 11:38:

You didn't schedule round 3 qualifiers!

The unevenness of the provinces doesn't really hurt scheduling that much. You go something like

1: Provincial preliminary round 1 Ulster, 3 Leinster
2: 4 Provincial Quarter Finals 2 Munster,2 Ulster
3: 4 Provincial Quarter Finals 2 Connacht, 1 Ulster 1 Leinster
4: 4 Provincial Quarter Finals 1 Ulster, 3 Leinster
5: Munster Semi-final, Ulster Semi-final
6: Munster Semi-final, Connacht Semi-final
7: Ulster Semi-final, Connacht Semi-final
8: 2 Leinster Semi-finals played as a double header as normal.
9: Munster Final
10: Connacht Final
11: Ulster Final
12: Leinster Final

Still nicely spaced for provincial games, but the qualifiers throw a spanner in the works with regards to spacing as it does in your system.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 19/01/2016 19:15:04    1817779

The GPA's championship proposal was too long & drawn-out of a season. Clubs would never back it & there'd soon be a real split in the association. A lot of the players from the lesser lights are complaining that it's not a level playing field at the moment (can't compete with the top counties/too many hammerings etc.) yet when a half-decent proposal is forwarded they're "outraged" & it's a "disgrace".
keeper7 (Longford) - Posts:2601 - 19/01/2016 15:45:07 1817710

It is not a half-decent proposal. It is a proven failure.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 19/01/2016 19:24:04    1817782

Do AI QFs bringing 2 unbeaten Prov Champs (after a Champs Playoff Rd) and 6 Qualifiers together address the Prov imbalance ?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2596 - 19/01/2016 20:03:15    1817796

Wasting time thinking of ideas, if you leave things as they are weak counties complain, change things they complain, you can't please some people, whether we like it or not the richest county will hammer the bankrupt county so the idea of a 32 or 33 county competition as we already have is nonsense, we will have to go to a 2 or 3 tier competitions like hurling with 2 tiers of 16 teams or 3 tiers of 11 teams, the lower tier counties have to be treated properly not like hurling where the lower tiers are played in April and May , the different tier titles should be rent parallel with each other and run the provincial competitions between the League and Championship, squeeze the timescale of champ, run it over a few weeks, for example run a tier 1 and a tier 2 game as a double header. Winners or both finalists are promoted up to the next tier, after a playoff the weaker team or teams are relegated, but this can only work if all teams in each tier have the same amount of money to spend, if promoted you get a few quid for the training, relegated you lose the few quid, it gives weaker counties the incentive to push forward and get to the top tier, if you have no interest in the county set up then you will stay in the lower tiers. Anyway it's up to the weaker counties to come up with some idea

riverboys (Mayo) - Posts: 1389 - 19/01/2016 20:30:00    1817805

Imagine 16 teams in the Prov SFs play 3 'front door' KO rounds - losers of 8, 4 and 2 to Qual Rds new 1B, 2 and 3; and 2 unbeaten to AI QFs.
Take existing 16 teams not in the Prov SFs/ in Qual Rd 1 - 8 winners to Rd 2; 8 losers (3rd chance) to new Rd 1B; these initial 16 also need to win 3 'back door' KO rounds (Rds 1 or 1B, 2 and 3) to earn one of the remaining 6 AI QF berths.
Go ahead - take it apart !

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2596 - 19/01/2016 20:44:39    1817812

Only complaint I would have about round robin games is the time scale, how will this affect club football, is it time to remove county players from the club system something similar to rugby in Ireland but then again you are bordering on professionalism, the GAA system and issues around games is like to put a square block into a round hole, it won't fit

riverboys (Mayo) - Posts: 1389 - 21/01/2016 15:07:34    1818316

Only complaint I would have about round robin games is the time scale, how will this affect club football, is it time to remove county players from the club system something similar to rugby in Ireland but then again you are bordering on professionalism, the GAA system and issues around games is like to put a square block into a round hole, it won't fit

riverboys (Mayo) - Posts:577 - 21/01/2016 15:07:34 1818316

Pretty simple solution to that.

Play the county season March to July.

Play club championship August and September.

Provincial and All Ireland club October-December

Club league gets played during the inter county season. In rugby in the Rabo the internationals are often missing but for the European competitions they are always available.

I'd move club league to Friday and Saturday evenings leaves the Sunday to the county.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 21/01/2016 18:06:18    1818365

Wham, I'd maybe expand your original March to August inter-county season slightly, starting in Feb.

But I'd prefer to have inter-county weekends alternating with club weekends to give the 98% of players games in the sun.

So if Feb to August is approx 30 weeks, this will comfortably allow for a 15-round season, say 10-12 round robin incorporating Provs and NFL (your 12+10N+10S), before the AI Playoffs.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2596 - 21/01/2016 19:30:02    1818385

Wham, I'd maybe expand your original March to August inter-county season slightly, starting in Feb.

But I'd prefer to have inter-county weekends alternating with club weekends to give the 98% of players games in the sun.

So if Feb to August is approx 30 weeks, this will comfortably allow for a 15-round season, say 10-12 round robin incorporating Provs and NFL (your 12+10N+10S), before the AI Playoffs.

omahant (USA) - Posts:701 - 21/01/2016 19:30:02 1818385

The reason I like seperating them off is just that during the county season guys can just concentrate on playing for the one team. No distractions, no worries from managers about players getting injured. No reason for county boards to call off club games the week before a big county match.

All Ireland final on 3rd or 4th week of July. Club championship starts on August bank holiday weekend for every club player. Club players can fit in holidays over the first 2 weeks of July, get back, train the rest of July in the good weather to start championship. Fixture list agreed ahead of time. August and September are often drier and a little cool than June and July so are nearly the best 2 months to play.

In terms of inter-county a simple solution to allow teams games at their level plus a chance at the big one is to play league and championship at the same time. Have no qualifiers in the championship, lose early you still have the league to play for.

A sample season

1: league round 1
2: league round 2
3: league round 3
4: break
5: Ulster and Leinster preliminaries
6: Connacht, Munster quarter-finals, Ulster quarter-finals 1 and 2, Leinster quarter-final 1
7: Ulster quarter-finals 3 and 4, Leinster quarter-finals 2-4
8: league round 4
9: Munster Connacht semi-final 1
10: Munster Connacht semi-final 2, Ulster semi-final 1
11: Ulster semi-final 2, Leinster semi-finals
12: league round 5
13: Munster Connacht semi-final
14: Ulster Leinster semi-final
15: break
16: League round 6
17: semifinal 1
18: semifinal 2
19: league round 7
20: Break week
21: All Ireland final

Short season: Fewer games but maybe the profile of the league improves. Teams target the league more since if they lose early in championship their season is over.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 21/01/2016 21:55:28    1818401

And....after working so much for reform, we re-instate the lopsided championship ! :)

I prefer your earlier ideas - one season long (6/7 months) competition leading to one champ, incorporating provs along the way.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2596 - 22/01/2016 14:36:23    1818514

Given the wide variety of change options with no concensus, modest change is the best we can hope for.
I think this could have a reasonable chance of passage -
8 Qual Rd 1 losers (3rd chance) host 8 Prov SF losers in Rd 1B.
4 Prov Final losers join 16 Qual Rds 1 and 1B winners in 20-team Open Draw Rd 2.
2 new Prov Champs Rd losers join 10 Rd 2 winners in 12-team Seeded Draw Rd 3.
2 unbeaten Prov Champs and 6 Rd 3 winners contest Seeded Draw AI QFs.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2596 - 23/01/2016 17:09:57    1818651