Well I for one don't agree with what greenandred has posted. It simply doesn't apply to me and I find it littered with the parochialisms that we are laboured with in the gaa - parochialisms that we need to shake off to move forward. I don't consider myself a 'culchie' for a start. The term means nothing to me. Nor do I identify with other people who also fall under this term. Why would I? I have little in common with someone from Kilkenny, and some nickname made up by someone I have equally little in common with doesn't change that. However, I credit them because they have dominated without advantages. There is nothing Kilkenny can do that the average county up and down the country cant equally do, and that is the big difference. If Dublin or anyone else did the same Id give them the same credit.

I don't get this idea that people harp on about 'oh nobody cared before Dublin were winning' like they are catching you out. They weren't making good use of the advantages so people were willing to turn a blind eye to them. They are now, so it can no longer be ignored. Id consider that being very fair on Dublin - nobody wanted to kick them when they were down. Splitting Dublin when they were getting hammered in semi finals would only serve to kill the game off in the county - why would anyone push that argument? People took the pragmatic approach of let it go while it isn't affecting anyone else. Now it is and people want to turn around and use that against the same ones who done them a favour by turning a blind eye? I don't think so. It is a disingenuous point as far as im concerned. Just like nobody is making a big deal of Antrim's big population when they aren't making use of it. Should we be pushing for them to be split also? Of course not.

The point about McGregor I also disagree with. People dislike him because he is full of sh**, not because he is from Dublin. His latest rant about oppression to Floyd Maywether, while a few weeks previous, wearing a poppy underlines this. What has that got to do with Dublin?

Finally, the 10 in a row example is overly simplistic. It was never all down to money. There are other factors at play. No team will ever win 10 in a row regardless of what they have. However, advantages can be used to load the scales in a team's favour far more than anyone else, and once you are crossing the point of having 10 times the average population, something has to give. Can people not see that it is going to negatively affect the game itself? Look at the SPL for example, that is where we are headed. One team running away with it, other teams bankrupting themselves trying to keep up.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts:14676 - 12/01/2016 10:24:09 181

Great post. Personally I split dublin in 4

WilliePower12 (Australia) - Posts: 25 - 12/01/2016 10:41:55    1815987

It's not often I agree with The Master but he is on the ball there.

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 12/01/2016 12:45:48    1816033

Happy New Year lads....plus ça change I see. I'd just like to make one very important point.....I feckin love Conor McGregor. Ripped to bits!!! :p COYBIB!

Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 4097 - 12/01/2016 15:00:45    1816071

Happy New Year lads....plus ça change I see. I'd just like to make one very important point.....I feckin love Conor McGregor. Ripped to bits!!! :p COYBIB!

Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 4097 - 12/01/2016 15:18:47    1816077

Just a couple of points.

Dublin do have an advantage of more people and hence more money/resources......but they've always had that so what's changed?

I don't dislike Dublin and like Kilkenny because I'm from the country, I dislike Dublin because I'm from Meath and they're the number 1 enemy and I actually don't like Kilkenny either because I'm fed up with them winning all the time.

I have no problem with McGregor either, he's a showman generating as much publicity as he can for his fights, if he has the mouth to do it, then why not do it, worked for Ali.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 12/01/2016 15:48:08    1816086

Can some explain something to me.

The likes of Leitrim, Wicklow, Waterford (football) Fermanagh etc have been 'weak' counties for as long as the GAA has existed. 131 years.

How is taking money from Dublin and giving it to them going to change this?

They were weak before 'money' and will remain weak after 'money'

witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 12/01/2016 17:21:54    1816121

Dublin do have an advantage of more people and hence more money/resources......but they've always had that so what's changed?

What has changed is they have changed the attitudes in the county towards gaa. It is only going to get bigger, and isn't going to return to how it was, because although peaks and troughs happen, nobody goes back to the stone age when they have electricity do they? People had no issue turning a blind eye to their advantages when it wasn't having too big of an effect on the game as a whole (it could be argued that if people truly disliked Dublin, that wouldn't have been the case). There was no point in knocking them back even further at that point when the end result, i.e. the senior team, wasn't beating all around them. Even if they grabbed an odd all Ireland on the back of it, like 1995, or 2011. You would allow for that rather than having to take the nuclear options which we are now faced with. People actually wanted them to be competitive - which is clear from the monies sent their way from the irish sporting council. Competitive is fine, domination is problematic though, because they wont peak and trough in the same way other counties will. They will operate on a higher plane, with their troughs probably still higher than most counties peaks.

So in a nutshell that is what has changed. May I ask what was the extra funding sent their way, if not a way of giving them a better chance? So why is everyone in Dublin so up in arms when it is suggested that the same better chance is extended to other counties now? Surely that is owed to other counties after Dublin got a leg up?

It isn't fair on other teams giving up so much of their lives to represent their county, only to have to face a county that truth be told, if left to their own devices, could soon put out two teams that would be competitive in an all Ireland final. As we are so often reminded, they are amateur - well surely the least we could do is give amateurs a fair chance. It is just going to drive guys away from football, they wont bother. Nothing generates interest like healthy competition. The competition in the gaa at present is not healthy. That is the bottom line. Just because we done it this way before, doesn't mean it was right. We should be looking to move forward, not repeat the past. Fairness and healthy competition is paramount to any amateur sporting contest, because guys aren't getting a paycheck here. They cant just go through the motions like a soccer player could. If it isn't fair, many wont bother. And truth be told, how could you blame them? The fairer and more even we can keep the gaa, the better it will be, and that is for everyone. 34 teams hammering away at each other would generate far more money than Dublin alone could ever dream of - that is something that is lost on a lot of people. We dont need Dublin to be way out in front to maximise their corporate potential, we need them to be competitive with other teams. When they were lagging behind, we helped them. Well now they are streaking out in front, but we aren't allowed to act, how does that work?

The first step to solve this is to limit the money that a team can spend, and limit the staff they can have. Then spread around the excess monies to help teams compete. A few years of that and there would be a noticeable improvement. Even that alone could be enough if managed well. I don't think anyone wants to see a county split (although truth be told it would probably bring out even more top players within the county and develop gaa to a higher level in the area), but this is the direction we are heading in. Action now might prevent that eventuality.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 12/01/2016 17:54:36    1816127

So Witnof, on that thinking Ethiopia, Somalia, Bangladesh etc have been poor countries for as long as they have existed. How is taking money away from Ireland, Britain, Germany etc going to improve them? They have always been poor countries and always will be. Your thinking seems to be that of the neocons who run the capitalist system. Keep those at the top stronger and richer and keep the boot on the neck of the weak and poor because..... it's just the way it is. No wonder society is the way it is.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9706 - 12/01/2016 18:05:48    1816133

And as per the countries you mentioned the money has changed what? Sadly nothing. The issues are structural as much as monetary.

And in the order of things are these countries ever going to be power houses? Never

Are Leitrim / Wicklow ever going to be power houses? Never

So tell me how money will make them competitive?

witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 13/01/2016 08:52:43    1816213

Master

I agree that if we want to try and improve the general standard across the Gaa then a spending cap and fairer distribution of money could help, although I have to hold up my hand up and admit that I don't know what each county brings in and receives, it'd easier to pass judgement if I did know.

Also Dublin aren't really dominating in the same way as Kerry or Kilkenny have in the last decade or so, granted Leinster is a turkey shoot but the other counties are largely to blame for that. My own county in particular are only now considering making changes for the future (not even great changes) when other counties have done this perhaps 10 years ago or more, the state we're in is entirely our fault and it's not going to change anytime soon. I can't speak for the other Leinster counties but Dublin have nearly always been the premier team in Leinster anyway, that's nothing new.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 13/01/2016 10:10:50    1816239

while some counties obviously have more resources, it is also obvious that a lot of counties waste resources. massive spending on individual teams rather than on structures. i.e. Dublin hiring Bryan Cullen to cover all there teams is very progressive. every manager getting their own people in rather than a county have an integrated s&c set up or player development pathway to bring a player through the age groups. probably more expensive at the start but i'd bet the savings on not having individual set ups at every grade and also on medical bills (because the injury level will definitely drop) should cover this.

Its not all about s&c either, thats just an example. coaching structures, proper competition structures with a proper fixture list, minimum standards a playing facilities etc.

these things help increase participation which in turn increases the level which makes a county more competitive. lots of different things counties need to do for themselves before they are given more money to waste. once they can show that they are properly organised there should be some sort of equalization fund. It could be used as a carrot to get counties to get their house in order

Mayonman (Galway) - Posts: 1835 - 13/01/2016 13:38:34    1816326

Can some explain something to me.

The likes of Leitrim, Wicklow, Waterford (football) Fermanagh etc have been 'weak' counties for as long as the GAA has existed. 131 years.

How is taking money from Dublin and giving it to them going to change this?

They were weak before 'money' and will remain weak after 'money'

witnof (Dublin) - Posts:861 - 12/01/2016 17:21:54 1816

If you lived in England you would vote Conservative. Let the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Money might not make them super powers in the GAA but it would close the gap, or at least keep it at the same level.

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 13/01/2016 14:17:04    1816338

An example is nutrition. I'm friends with a lad on the county panel. He works in Belfast and trains down the country twice a week. 90 minute journey both ways. After completing his journey he then has to spend time making his meals for the next few days. The Dublin players have a meals on wheels service for their county boys ensuring that they get the correct nutrition and enough time to recover. This Fermanagh lad has two options sacrifice his recovery time to make sure he is getting the correct food or else take the easy option (stop for chips back up the road or throw a pizza in the oven etc) and get a bit more rest. If the money was there to get the meals delivered to him he would be getting the right food and have more time for resting. One example of the affect money can have.

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 13/01/2016 14:38:24    1816342

What about the couples out there with college degrees who are struggling to get by with two children and big mortgages, while unemployed people are having way more kids and seem to be getting along just fine.
Theres never been a better time in history to be poor.
This the rich get richer and the poor get poorer stuff does my head in.
Okay, the top 1% of the populations richest like ceo's of corporation, and sportsstars are raking it in more than ever, but youre nearly better off these days doing nothing with yourself than being a member of the squeezed middle class.

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 13/01/2016 14:43:20    1816344

There is no doubting that the GAA need to do something to help the development of our games around the country, but simply taking money off Dublin because they have won a couple of all Irelands is no kind of solution.
Master, in one of your earlier posts you lauded Kilkenny for managing to win with 'no advantages'. Do you not think the fact that they totally ignore football in the county, thus focusing on hurling alone, is not a massive advantage. You also refer to Antrim not taking advantage of their big population as though this is preferable to a county actually making a serious effort to improve the GAA within their counties.
This theme is rehashed on here every couple of months but nobody seems to come up with any realistic suggestions as how to address the problems. We get the 'split the money evenly ' call, but how exactly would that work? Does the GAA simply split the money into 32 even shares. Even leaving Dublin out of the equation that would mean that every person in Leitrim would have over 16 times the financial support of sombody from Cork, surely thats not fair either. Another option is to match funds raised with grants, but that only favours the stronger counties. Others are calling for no grants to be given to Counties that get big sponsorship deals, but I can't see that working long term. The bigger counties would continue to work to get sponsorship themselves, but it would only encourage some badly run county boards to just sit and wait for the grant rather than risk losing the grant by raising their own funds.
As for putting a cap on the amount spent by each county board, that would be virtually impossible to police, given the amount of financial support given to some Counties from 'outside' sources (supporters clubs, wealthy fans abroad etc), the question would be what is classed as spending on a County team and what would be classed as a friendly contribution.
A point that is often missed about the current success of counties like Dublin and Kilkenny is that it stems from decisions taken by their respective boards back in the 90's to focus on coaching and games development. Kerry too have always valued the development of players as more important than claiming titles, although in the last few years they are doing both. The problem with this approach is that it is not a 'quick fix' (it took Dublin nearly 12 years to win a national title) and there is little or no glory for the people that take a county down that route in the short term.
As I said at the start the GAA needs to do something to help all counties, but before a single cent is allocated there needs to be a serious, targeted and workable plan for player coaching and development in place that can be easily adapted and implemented in every single county, big or small. When these structures are up and running in each County ,through central funds if necessary, then additional funds can be allocated as merited.
There is no point just handing over funding to Counties to be squandered on vanity projects or big name managers in the chase for short term success, If the GAA is really serious about helping so called weaker counties then they need to put the structures in place first, and then worry about funding.

AHP (Dublin) - Posts: 323 - 13/01/2016 16:13:21    1816368

Jon carter those who are unemployed do not get everything ok financially. That is the most ridiculous statement i have ever read.

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 13/01/2016 16:15:59    1816369

Gotmilk my point is that people believing money is going to change the facts of life is a pipe dream. You think only money solves problems? So how much money do we need to give to Wicklow and a Leitrim to make the competitive??

1M€ per county enough? too much? need more?

Lets start to quantify the arguement.

Is you won counties lack of success down to lack of money?

Is Ulsterman's Antirm not a good case. In the hurling the club is more important than the county? This is their biggest barrier not funds.

witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 13/01/2016 16:35:10    1816381

It's not the sole reason but it has an influence on it. There are other reasons, political, economical and population. However those three are out of the hands of the GAA the money is not . Do you not think that with more money Fermanagh county board would be able to look after intercounty players better? Make the setup more professional and therefore improving the standard of player?

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 13/01/2016 21:28:15    1816455

AHP, just some observations on your post.

1. The idea isn't take money off Dublin just because they won all Irelands. That is obvious from what I have stated earlier.
2. Kilkenny don't have an advantage of not playing football - anyone can choose to do the same thing.
3. Nobody suggested simply splitting the money into 32 equal parts. Fixed costs would need to be worked out for each county etc.
4. Anyone who breaks the cap could be punished very severely. Fines, bans from all competitions.
5. Any 'outside force' could be blacklisted. You could make it so it wasnt worth anyone's while trying to cheat.
6. You need money to put systems in place. This is the money Im suggesting other counties get. In all honesty, the money Dublin spent on recovering in oxygen tanks last year for example, could be much better spent somewhere it is actually needed.
7. Nobody said they wanted a quick fix, simply the tools for a fair chance.
8. Why would counties waste the money on the things you have suggested they might? It isn't like they are from lesser developed countries or something, they are as knowledgeable as the next guy. They just haven't been offered the same chances. You seem determined to keep it that way for some reason.
9. It is in all our interests to improve gaa across the country. We need to stop this smalltime thinking of only look out for yourself.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 14/01/2016 10:08:02    1816497

AHP, just some observations on your post.

1. The idea isn't take money off Dublin just because they won all Irelands. That is obvious from what I have stated earlier.
2. Kilkenny don't have an advantage of not playing football - anyone can choose to do the same thing.
I didn't suggest that other counties can't choose to ignore one sport, I simply stated that by doing so Kilkenny have a massive advantage.
3. Nobody suggested simply splitting the money into 32 equal parts. Fixed costs would need to be worked out for each county etc.
That is what happens at the moment, but Dublin have much greater costs because of the numbers they are trying to cater for and most people seem to have a problem with this.
4. Anyone who breaks the cap could be punished very severely. Fines, bans from all competitions.
Great in theory but as I said practically impossible to police.
5. Any 'outside force' could be blacklisted. You could make it so it wasnt worth anyone's while trying to cheat.
How is it cheating. If I decide to make my helicopter available to fly players to training it's just me being a good neighbour. The fact other counties can't afford to do such things isn't my, or my counties concern.
6. You need money to put systems in place. This is the money Im suggesting other counties get. In all honesty, the money Dublin spent on recovering in oxygen tanks last year for example, could be much better spent somewhere it is actually needed.
7. Nobody said they wanted a quick fix, simply the tools for a fair chance.
That's exactly what I suggested, but my proviso is that the first thing required is to put proper structures in place, not hand out money with no plan in place.
8. Why would counties waste the money on the things you have suggested they might? It isn't like they are from lesser developed countries or something, they are as knowledgeable as the next guy. They just haven't been offered the same chances. You seem determined to keep it that way for some reason.
I'm not suggesting they are any less knowledgeable than anyone else, but if you honestly think there are county boards that have not blown fortunes paying outside managers or building state of the art centres of excellence without a thought of how best to utilise them you are sadly mistaken.
9. It is in all our interests to improve gaa across the country. We need to stop this smalltime thinking of only look out for yourself.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts:14700 - 14/01/2016 10:08:02 1816497

AHP (Dublin) - Posts: 323 - 14/01/2016 12:03:13    1816562