TheMaster,

The problem of unequal funding exists in all sports. But forget Dublin, Mayo have bigger resources than Leitrim, and are in the same provincial championship. Do you think Mayo should pool their resources with Leitrim?
JayP

Of course. Everyone should pool their resources and then split it fairly.
Also, actually the unequal funding doesn't exist in all sports, you were just given the NFL as an example of a sport where they have found ways to make it even - very successful ways at that. Why would you be against similar measures being brought into the gaa?

if_in_doubt, a draft is impossible in the gaa, and nobody suggested it. However, a draft of monies is very possible.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 22/12/2015 13:21:20    1813889

What we have now is indicative of people who don't actually care about the gaa, they just want their team to win.
Of course it's about wanting your team to win that's the very nature of competitiveness and sport and that will never change.Do you actually think people are going to try as hard to raise funding and indeed those who donate to their counties funds are going to be as generous and as committed if they know their money is going to another county that are trying to compete with them.
Maybe in a perfect world we will all have the same money, the same population , the same tradition and personnel and then everyone will win the same amount or maybe that just won't happen like it never did in any sport.
SLLY (Dublin)


They do it in the NFL, very successfully. Why cant we do it? What is stopping us?

More importantly, it is a fair system. Are you suggesting that we don't use a fair system, just because you believe nobody else uses it? (Even though your belief isnt accurate). That seems to be your argument.

As for this perfect world stuff, well we don't need to have the exact same of everything, just employ a system that makes the differences manageable, like they do in the NFL. It is very straightforward, you are talking like it is impossible. It is far from it.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 22/12/2015 13:27:31    1813891

SLLY and damothedub. you say that other county boards need to basically work harder. How exactly? Leitrim and Longford have a smaller population than some clubs in Dublin ffs. That is like saying Ireland need to work harder to match Germany's outputs, and that all that needs to happen is just for us to pull up our socks and we will be the same as them. Will ye get lost with that disingenuous bs. You know that isn't the case.

What needs to happen is that people stop viewing it as Dublin gaa or Mayo gaa etc. View it as the gaa. All collections should be for the GAA in general, and forget about this parochial, my county rubbish that is only aiding to stagnate the game. What we have now is indicative of people who don't actually care about the gaa, they just want their team to win. If that is the thinking then the gaa is going to go backwards.

As for AIG sponsoring Dublin - of course they would. Do you think they care where the money goes? All they want is their name on the jersey. The sponsorship of all counties could be auctioned off, and once the costs are covered for that county, the excess could be redirected.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts:14588 - 22/12/2015 11:50:17


Firstly nowhere did I suggest anything derogatory towards Leitrim or Longford suggest you read again ,
the reason I cant take a Leitrim Dublin comparison serious is that they have never ever been on equal footing , Leitrim are as equal to do Dublin as they are to Mayo which is miles off the pace , but then remind when it was ever that different .
Regarding county boards I travel with development squads I speak to people on my travels and would be in a fairly decent position to know what is done and not done by certain county squads , one county brought a panel on a bonding session but it was kept from senior members of the county board who boo hoo such things , Ive seen squads arrive under prepared and without a meal organised for the players and equally Ive seen other counties prepare an under 15 team like its Sam orLiam in Sept ,
Since my son made development squad 3 years ago hes played two matches in Dublin and is in well over double figures for away matches , some other counties have told us they their county boards wont pay for the travel expenses , we fund raise for ours , FODH being a perfect example .
I know of one county board not shy in spending the buck on senior player's yet haven't a gym programme for their u16 and by gym I mean athletic development and injury prevention programmes , you see Master when you get off your high horse and mingle you find out whats going on , where some choose to spend the money and don't .

Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 22/12/2015 13:28:27    1813892

The main problem is this

The infrastructure isn't there for country counties to hold onto it's young people - it's talent base.

This cannot be changed by any sort of action taken by the GAA

For various reasons Young people want to leave and with that they bring their talent with them

It's not a GAA issue - it's a socio-economic issue that is far beyond this topic

Dublin's main advantage lies in the fact that we hold onto our youth/talent far more easily - there's far more opportunities in Dublin

We simply don't have that outward migration problem

This problem can only be addressed by investing billions into rural counties, building infrastructure and creating jobs and opportunities for young people

So in other words - this isn't going to change anytime soon, if ever.

This problem has always existed but is now greatly amplified, as Irish life has changed so radically over the decades

Country counties just cant hold onto it's youth/talent or attract other youth/talent within it's borders because there's nothing there to attract them.

Dublin's population is set to sore - all the research is pointing to Dublin's population approaching 2 million within the next 20 years

So that's many hundreds of thousands of kids currently living in the country as I type... ending up in Dublin or beyond

The talent is there but then it leaves, not always because it wants to.. but because it has to - the GAA is unfortunately directly linked to socio-economic issues in Ireland and as such that's why these problems exits within the GAA.

Dublin will be split, it is only a matter of time now

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20601 - 22/12/2015 13:54:13    1813896

What we have now is indicative of people who don't actually care about the gaa, they just want their team to win.
Of course it's about wanting your team to win that's the very nature of competitiveness and sport and that will never change.Do you actually think people are going to try as hard to raise funding and indeed those who donate to their counties funds are going to be as generous and as committed if they know their money is going to another county that are trying to compete with them.
Maybe in a perfect world we will all have the same money, the same population , the same tradition and personnel and then everyone will win the same amount or maybe that just won't happen like it never did in any sport.
SLLY (Dublin)


They do it in the NFL, very successfully. Why cant we do it? What is stopping us?

More importantly, it is a fair system. Are you suggesting that we don't use a fair system, just because you believe nobody else uses it? (Even though your belief isnt accurate). That seems to be your argument.

As for this perfect world stuff, well we don't need to have the exact same of everything, just employ a system that makes the differences manageable, like they do in the NFL. It is very straightforward, you are talking like it is impossible. It is far from it.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts:14590 - 22/12/2015 13:27:31

That was eventually introduced in a professional environment. The GAA will not be able to operate on that basis and I think you probably know that.It's not a case of not doing it because nobody else does it it's reality. All amateur sporting organisations are the same.

SLLY (Dublin) - Posts: 463 - 22/12/2015 14:27:44    1813902

I do agree that a greater portion of the central fund should be redirected to certain counties in order to bolster what they already have

But don't fool yourselves

This issue is of far greater standing than simply throwing a few extra quid at it and expecting it to somehow be a total game changer

It simply wont be

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20601 - 22/12/2015 14:31:08    1813905

Damothedub , I have to laugh. you talk about mingling and seeing things and yet you don't really get it at all. You mention that you fundraise for teams, and say that like it was a good initiative, and it was. But have you considered that other counties don't have to bodies to fundraise from? Have you considered that other counties would crawl over hot coals to be in the position to fundraise like you are patting yourself on the back for doing?

This is where you lads seem to fall down. It's easy for you to do it, and you think well if we can do it then so can every else - they cant. They wish they could, they would kill for the chance, this hasn't occurred to you. Come down and operate in a small or even average sized county, you will see that they are fighting fires just to stay anywhere near competitive. Because of that some teams don't get treated properly. Meanwhile you can breeze out and sell a few tickets or accost a few business-people around the local area and you have your few pound handy enough. I think it is yourself who hasn't done any mingling. Did you know Kerry collected over 30 euro per head in the county last year? That is fundraising. So before you go patting yourself on the back and telling other counties to get out there and do the same, you might actually want to get a grasp of what they are up against.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 22/12/2015 14:46:16    1813907

Yes Dublin will be split, in fact it should have been 20 years ago. But this should be brought in also, because even with Dublin split (and both teams will still have 5 times the population of ourselves - an average sized county), the likes of Leitrim and Longford will still need help.

The truth is jimbo, yourself and a few more wont look past your own door, and you will try to spin it every way you can, just to muddy the waters and slow the inevitable, all to the end of bullying your way to a few more all Ireland titles while the going is good. In reality you just have no interest in the gaa, you just want your own team to be winning regardless of what that means, that is where your interest begins and ends. Hopefully, we have more fair-minded and forward thinking people in important positions in the coming years, because your approach is the antithesis of what the gaa has been and should be in the future.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 22/12/2015 15:00:36    1813908

Dublin won't be split as there is no appetite for the split in the county. The GAA aren't gonna take that financial risk, a GAA with two kinda Dublin teams won't generate enough revenue.

I just don't see the validity of a split. It doesn't help Dublin GAA. Jimbo I see your point about population etc. but a bigger population doesn't necessarily equate to success. There are still plenty of communities in Dublin where GAA isn't a dominant sport. And the integration of new Irish citizens hasn't even begun properly as many don't really care much for GAA as it was not the main sport from the countries of birth of their parents. There would need to masses of work done before a split could be a viable option.

Kerry winning all Ireland's all the time never bothered anyone. Dublin win 3 in a short space of time and it's the ruination of the GAA.

These things are cyclic

JayP (Dublin) - Posts: 1772 - 22/12/2015 15:24:59    1813917

Themaster

Muddying the waters

By simply giving an alternative to your own opinion

There's plenty on this thread currently doing that

And a lot of what they are saying makes a whole lot more sense and is much more realistic to what you're suggesting

This problem without a doubt is a socio-economic problem seen in Ireland which has zero to do with the GAA

But yet effects it very badly - because the GAA is a reflection on Irish culture

Ireland isn't setup very well - population distribution is heavily favoured in urban areas and our infrastructure is poor outside of urban areas

Rural living is not a draw for it's young people because it lacks opportunity

The talent is there - the babies are born but they want to leave, but in saying that not because they always want to but because they have to

As such your young people leave - throwing a few extra quid is not going to change a damn thing

Outward migration plays a massive factor in this and there's almost feck all the GAA can do about that

The problem is greater than that.. sure direct extra funding but to think that's going to solve the REAL issues are quite frankly detached from reality

This problem has always existed but again is greatly amplified in modern day Ireland

I'm not trying to muddy the water

I'm just pointing at the actual problem at the very core of this on-going issue within the GAA

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20601 - 22/12/2015 15:35:56    1813919

Should Kerry, Cork or KK be split? I would think not.

I don't see how a financial fair play model would work within an amateur organisation.

If Dublin get 5 million or so in sponsorship, would I want my county winning a Leinster or an All Ireland on the back of it? No thanks. Tainted.

daytona11 (Kildare) - Posts: 4012 - 22/12/2015 15:56:25    1813924

Damothedub , I have to laugh. you talk about mingling and seeing things and yet you don't really get it at all. You mention that you fundraise for teams, and say that like it was a good initiative, and it was. But have you considered that other counties don't have to bodies to fundraise from? Have you considered that other counties would crawl over hot coals to be in the position to fundraise like you are patting yourself on the back for doing?

This is where you lads seem to fall down. It's easy for you to do it, and you think well if we can do it then so can every else - they cant. They wish they could, they would kill for the chance, this hasn't occurred to you. Come down and operate in a small or even average sized county, you will see that they are fighting fires just to stay anywhere near competitive. Because of that some teams don't get treated properly. Meanwhile you can breeze out and sell a few tickets or accost a few business-people around the local area and you have your few pound handy enough. I think it is yourself who hasn't done any mingling. Did you know Kerry collected over 30 euro per head in the county last year? That is fundraising. So before you go patting yourself on the back and telling other counties to get out there and do the same, you might actually want to get a grasp of what they are up against.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts:14595 - 22/12/2015 14:46:16

Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 22/12/2015 15:59:04    1813925

I think we're all in agreement that more direct funding from HQ should be going to the counties that need it most

But don't be so naïve to think this will solve anything on any sort of game change level

This will still not resolve the real problem (outward migration due to socio-economic factors which greatly favour urban areas in Ireland)

The GAA reflects our culture and how our country actually functions

Is it any wonder it has it's problems

Ireland isn't fair.. don't expect the GAA to be

Young people will follow opportunity and this has massive implications on rural GAA counties

Imbalance will always exist in the GAA

Because that's how Ireland works...

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20601 - 22/12/2015 15:59:54    1813926

If, as people are suggesting, we go full communist and tear the wealth from Dublin and divide it up between everyone else, I could see the finances of every county collapsing really. If I was a Dub and knew that for every €32 i raise, €31 will be going to some other counties, I wouldn't bother. I could see sponsorship money plummeting too. What difference is it to Dublin whether AIG give them 1 Million or some family corner shop sponsor them for peanuts if they've to give all the money away in the end?

In the event of some gigantic socialist wealth redistribution, the likes of Kerry, Tipp and Mayo will also be hit hard, unless Dublin currently spend €33 Million+ on their county teams.

CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1647 - 22/12/2015 16:10:00    1813928

Daytona as opposed to importing managers and players from Kerry, Armagh and lest we forget Cavan, very strong stance to take considering the recent past. The GAA have a responsibility to ensure the games are still viable for the next generations and having all resource pooled in one area is both unsustainable and undesirable from the standpoint of growing the game.

Dublin raise a fair few shillings and thats great but the attitudes of people on here is very reminiscent of the old English rugby football union when they tried to sell the 6 nations broadcast rights to sky when they weren't theirs to sell as they were the big draw, they provided X, Y and Z. Once a team believes it is bigger than the game the game is in trouble.

Just because teams have no tradition of success doesn't mean they should be consigned to the scrap heap and that is what is being advocated, the goal should be to try and ensure the number of competitive counties is such that the championship is still a viable product as if that number dwindles the interest levels will go with it also.

duckula20 (Antrim) - Posts: 175 - 22/12/2015 16:11:50    1813929

Damothedub , I have to laugh. you talk about mingling and seeing things and yet you don't really get it at all. You mention that you fundraise for teams, and say that like it was a good initiative, and it was. But have you considered that other counties don't have to bodies to fundraise from? Have you considered that other counties would crawl over hot coals to be in the position to fundraise like you are patting yourself on the back for doing?

This is where you lads seem to fall down. It's easy for you to do it, and you think well if we can do it then so can every else - they cant. They wish they could, they would kill for the chance, this hasn't occurred to you. Come down and operate in a small or even average sized county, you will see that they are fighting fires just to stay anywhere near competitive. Because of that some teams don't get treated properly. Meanwhile you can breeze out and sell a few tickets or accost a few business-people around the local area and you have your few pound handy enough. I think it is yourself who hasn't done any mingling. Did you know Kerry collected over 30 euro per head in the county last year? That is fundraising. So before you go patting yourself on the back and telling other counties to get out there and do the same, you might actually want to get a grasp of what they are up against.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts:14595 - 22/12/2015 14:46:16

Not patting myself on the **** you know all , I work and fund raise the same as anyone else I work mon to fri the same as anyone else , I am a member of one of the smallest clubs in Dublin in an area that is predominately soccer and fight the fight like many many others ,
why is it easy for us as you say ? love to know ? are there more than 168 hours in a week in Dublin ? volunteers are the same no matter what colours they wear but obviously not if you wear blue in your eyes , your mind numbing hatred of Dubs even extends to its volunteers your a sad sad man .
You asked a question re county boards what they do and don't do , when I addressed it with personal experience you do two things
1 Atacck me
2 Give opinions as if fact, for county boards parishes country wide ,
But I note rarely personal experience .
You remind me of the guy on the mountain waiting for the lotto numbers , you sit there spouting your bile like a gaa guru but a fraud .

Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 22/12/2015 16:16:55    1813930

Not patting myself on the ****

Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts:2976 - 22/12/2015 16:16:55

Not sure if patting it is the most effective way to be honest Damo...

if_in_doubt (Kildare) - Posts: 3685 - 22/12/2015 16:42:04    1813934

What difference is it to Dublin whether AIG give them 1 Million or some family corner shop sponsor them for peanuts if they've to give all the money away in the end?

That's a very interesting point.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20601 - 22/12/2015 16:50:05    1813936

You remind me of the guy on the mountain waiting for the lotto numbers , you sit there spouting your bile like a gaa guru but a fraud .

hahahahaha

ZING!!!

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20601 - 22/12/2015 16:56:32    1813937

Damo really has you summed up very well themaster

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20601 - 22/12/2015 17:14:03    1813938