A few people getting excited about this thread being a negative one. It wasn't supposed to be. The title is a question.

I thought a forum was for discussion. If you can't ask a few question without it being considered negative to the GAA then you might as well close the website.

SOme people are inadvertently stalinist in their outlook. Perhaps people that question the GAA should be taken to siberia and shot.

YOu are all free to start a GAA love in thread if you want.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1126 - 21/10/2015 13:17:25    1800937

I have always been impressed with the culture of respect for referees in rugby. Even if the ref makes a terrible decision (which is rare), players just accept it and get on with the game. Yes, there has been a lot of criticism of Joubert's call in the days after the game, but at the time, the Scotland players were incredibly restrained even though they had just been blatantly robbed of a semi-final spot. The Irish team made no fuss over Sean O'Brien's suspension, even though it was a massive blow after already losing 3 crucial players to injuries. Compare that reaction to the circus that follows virtually every sending-off in a major GAA championship match. In the GAA, it is perfectly acceptable behaviour for supporters, team officials and players to hurl streams of abuse at the ref all through the game. An umpire in a junior B football match in Wicklow was knocked over and kicked on the ground at the weekend. I just find it amazing that anybody would ever even consider becoming a GAA referee.

Gaillimh_Abu (Galway) - Posts: 996 - 21/10/2015 13:22:50    1800941

tirawleybaron
County: Mayo
Posts: 530

1800937 A few people getting excited about this thread being a negative one. It wasn't supposed to be. The title is a question.

I thought a forum was for discussion. If you can't ask a few question without it being considered negative to the GAA then you might as well close the website.

SOme people are inadvertently stalinist in their outlook. Perhaps people that question the GAA should be taken to siberia and shot.

YOu are all free to start a GAA love in thread if you want.

Great idea , now just need to find a Rugby site to start it on mmmmmm .

Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 21/10/2015 13:25:49    1800945

So if you suggest the GAA needs improving in certain elements or could learn from other codes, you are being negative? Come on folks, get real! We just want to see an improvement in our national games and we should be open to pinching ideas from other codes, suggesting anything like that is not being negative, merely seeking to improve.....there is a difference!

Bald Eagle (None) - Posts: 1009 - 21/10/2015 14:02:38    1800960

I was intrigued by the changing style of play in rugby

it is all about skills performed at high intensity and has really gone away from the teams of having bigger, heavier players crashing into each other

plus, the SH teams are far more willing to put in young players onto their teams.
the likes of Ireland, England etc are fearful of younger skilled players eg Zebo

valley84 (Westmeath) - Posts: 1890 - 21/10/2015 14:10:47    1800963

You're dead right there, the SH sides seem to get the experience into these young players early while we appear to be scared of putting them in early! Zebo is one that gets a bad press i feel. The other side of the argument is that we are coached by a SH coach so that should really take away from the point.

Bald Eagle (None) - Posts: 1009 - 21/10/2015 14:26:47    1800966

20/10/2015 17:50:35 SaffronDon
Bald Eagle your right and I have no problem with that. But from a personal opinion I don't want the GAA using rugby as some sort of role model big brother that we should all aspire to. They are two separate entities who are doing just fine by themselves and long may it stay that way. This isn't about the GAA using rugby as some sort of role model. Same questions are asked on rugby forums on what rugby can learn from the GAA...
They are two separate entities but that doesn't mean they cant learn from each other
20/10/2015 20:15:09 Whammo86
There's a few things I like about rugby.
1 Sin bin for cynical dangerous fouls. I think refs would be more inclined to sin bin a player and put him out of the game for 10 minutes rather than black card him and have him have to be replaced. It's also a bigger punishment for his team having to do without a man.
2 The time keeping is way better being out of the hands of the ref. Probably unrealistic at club level but possible at county level.
3 I think the run their competitions off better. World Cup gets done and dusted in 7 weeks. Six nations the same. At the same time the provincial rugby teams are still playing their competitions, but are still available to play the big cup games. GAA needs to start playing their competitions off quicker. It shouldn't take 34 weeks to run off the inter county season, where teams can play as few as 9 matches (I'm ignoring the preseason competitions which I'm hoping have had their day), even Dublin only played 16 league and championship games in those 34 weeks in winning both competitions. Get county teams playing more games in a shorter time frame. Let club players play their club leagues without county players. They can have them back for club championship, which have more time to be ran off properly if the All Ireland gets played earlier.Sin bin works but it was tried in GAA before and got rid of. Would people be willing to bring it back?
2 time keeping is only out of the hands of the referee at the very top level in the pro game.
Pre season competitions are needed for teams to play games to warm up ahead of league etc. It shouldn't take 34 weeks to run off inter county season but clubs just have to get on with their own games as the delays waiting for county players is stupid and unfair on the ordinary club player
20/10/2015 20:15:09 Whammo86
5 On rugby referees, I think they earn their respect. They are very good given how marginal some of the calls are. Something important too is that there is proper dialogue between them and the players. If a team is unsure of the reason for a decision their captain can speak with the ref. One of the most frustrating things for me in Gaelic is the attitude of many refs to players, there's a cockiness to them, they can make a blatant mistake and then wantonly bring the ball 14 yards forward when a player lets out his frustration.It helps that rugby has an offside line and players are closer in general to the referee at all time. Bigger problem is attitude of players and coaches towards referees not the other way round

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 21/10/2015 14:30:51    1800971

20/10/2015 20:15:09 Whammo86
2 The time keeping is way better being out of the hands of the ref. Probably unrealistic at club level but possible at county level
21/10/2015 08:28:28 tirawleybaron
THis idea is what annoys me most about GAA.
I have played basketball most of my life and from the age of U10 upwards there is someone sitting at a desk beside the court whose job it is to start and stop the clock. They then ring a bell or blow a horn or whatever to signal the end of a half/quarter and there is no drama. They are even able to stop the clock for timeouts when required. This person does not need a degree in maths either, just reasonable hand eye coordination and the ability to see what the ref is doing.
How are the GAA not able to do this? Anyone who thinks this cannot be done at every GAA match any every level up and down the country is a clown. Many/most other team sports have the referee controlling time so why is it an issue in GAA? Though at same time could there not be a qualified referee on the sideline/in stand micced up to the referee ala rugby and if referee on pitch says time on/time off. The clock stops/starts?
21/10/2015 09:10:39 tearintom
Admitting flaws in our own sports and looking at other sports to try and make our own even better isnt a sign of weakness, its a sign of wanting to make our own the best it can be.
We do an awful lot of things right in our games but other sports are looking at a lot of things we do well and trying to replicate those things such as reaching into rural areas and coaching at primary schools level etc. We can either sit whinging, call them less irish etc etc or fight back by improving our own games. spot on.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 21/10/2015 14:34:15    1800972

Gaillimh abu, you'll find that a lot if the people leading the circus over the sending-offs in GAA, and howling for blood were the same who were defending Sean o brien, and wanted him to get off, while they wanted a 2-year ban for philly/connoly/keane, etc. Part of the reason everyone hates rugger

flack (Dublin) - Posts: 1054 - 21/10/2015 14:38:22    1800976

Well we have this 'Home Nations' view of rugby, about discipline and respect for refs etc.

Come to France and see a different world.

And did you ever see the GAA publically hang the ref out to dry like the RWC did will Joubert.

So what I am saying is we have to give up on this the 'grass is greener stuff'.

There are only two overriding issues in the GAA that I see:

a) is the disciplinary process at inter-county level that has become too cumbersome. Need a two step process and stop, with the risk that if you appeal a suspension can be increased.

b) calendar, that see county championships run off in a few weeks end of September or early October. Though in some counties I wonder why they are only having county finals now, since they didn't even make the All-Ireland series etc. Here I think compression of the Inter-county season is key.

The rest at all for somewhat mute points. For example on extra time etc. people seem to forget in the GAA added time for subs or penalties etc is not counted. It really is only for pure injuries so hence sometimes people think there are 4 mins added time not the 2 given etc.

As to TMO do not forget in rugby people are complaining of an over reliance on the TMO

witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 21/10/2015 14:57:18    1800986

Ommerthingy (who loves bold quotes), are you seriously saying that GAA can learn NOTHING from rugby or vice versa? If so, then it's the end of the argument for you and any discussion on the matter between us as you clearly are deluded as to the shortcomings and good practice in both. We can always learn and always improve, when we stop striving to make our product better then we may as well give up on the whole thing!

Bald Eagle (None) - Posts: 1009 - 21/10/2015 15:12:42    1800994

Yeah ormonde, I think the sin bins a great idea, I don't see why they don't give it a better shot. I nearly think they thought up the black card just so they wouldn't be 'copying' the sin bin, which is a much better idea imo

flack (Dublin) - Posts: 1054 - 21/10/2015 15:19:04    1801002

21/10/2015 14:57:18 witnof
Well we have this 'Home Nations' view of rugby, about discipline and respect for refs etc.
Come to France and see a different world.
And did you ever see the GAA publically hang the ref out to dry like the RWC did will Joubert.
So what I am saying is we have to give up on this the 'grass is greener stuff'.
There are only two overriding issues in the GAA that I see:
a) is the disciplinary process at inter-county level that has become too cumbersome. Need a two step process and stop, with the risk that if you appeal a suspension can be increased.The discipline system at all levels needs to change. The system shouldn't allow 3 and 4 appeals.
I have played in france on tour before and been to top14 games in Perpignan etc. I know all about the way referees are treated but this view of referees and respect isn't a "home nations" view. In OZ, NZ, SA and countless other states its the same as here...
Look at the way many referees are suddenly dropped and treated by analysts and then by the GAA.There is much more than 2 issues. discipline system does need to change but how players/coaches/supporters act towards officials is the biggest change that needs to happen
21/10/2015 15:12:42 Bald Eagle
Ommerthingy (who loves bold quotes), are you seriously saying that GAA can learn NOTHING from rugby or vice versa? If so, then it's the end of the argument for you and any discussion on the matter between us as you clearly are deluded as to the shortcomings and good practice in both. We can always learn and always improve, when we stop striving to make our product better then we may as well give up on the whole thing! No need for the name calling. I quote in bold as this form doesn't have a quote button and is very old fashioned looking. Why do you and others get so wound up by me quoting posts in bold font?

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 21/10/2015 15:24:25    1801010

Calm down tirawley. You initiated this thread . The second post on this thread was from DoireCity and it answered in a most succinct way your question. Since then the thread as most do, has taken on a life of it's own. You need to calm down and go with the flow.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 21/10/2015 16:10:00    1801026

The sin bin was scrapped because a few high profile GAA managers and prominent GAA came out at the time against it. One reason of course was the age old "we cant seem to be copying that Rugby crowd" attitude.

At the time it was suggested that it was unworkable as there shouldnt be different rules at intercounty level and it wouldnt be workable at Club level, its laughable really now when we have Hawkeye only workabke at Intercounty level in one bloody stadium.

The first time we used the sin bin we were allowed to bring on a sub which was farcical, the second time it was trialled it was as per rugby, 10 minutes off but it was narrowly defeated at congress.

When the sin bin was trialled the second time scores and playing actually went up and fouls fell. At the time many high profile more successful counties were against it because in my opinion they saw that this could actually hurt them, whereas if you are a top team the current system of replacing a player it favours the strongest teams.

The black card is a farce but favours the stronger teams

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1351 - 21/10/2015 16:11:05    1801027

Flack the sin bin was tried and rejected by Congress, wrongly so in my opinion . That is why the black card was initiated. One thing that would drastically improve Gaelic games would be to remove rule change from the remit of Congress. Congress is a huge impediment to progress in our games.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 21/10/2015 16:13:54    1801030

Can you show where exactly (in bold if you like) I called you names? I don't have any issues with anything on here, in bold or otherwise but you should be aware when you do the amount of quoting in one post like you have done that is very hard to read. Don't take things so personally, nothing is personal on here so just chill out!

Bald Eagle (None) - Posts: 1009 - 21/10/2015 16:25:27    1801037

Well said tearintom. The sin bin should never have been rejected. Congress is a massive problem . I wouldn't entirely agree with you that different standards would not be applied at club and county levels. That is most certainly happening with the black card.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 21/10/2015 16:36:30    1801039

Bald Eagle
County: All
Posts: 986

1801037 Can you show where exactly (in bold if you like) I called you names? I don't have any issues with anything on here, in bold or otherwise but you should be aware when you do the amount of quoting in one post like you have done that is very hard to read. Don't take things so personally, nothing is personal on here so just chill out!

Honestly Bald Eagle, don't waste your time! :)

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12122 - 21/10/2015 16:46:48    1801045

Greengrass, I have said before that sometimes the GAA can be too democratic. Some things shouldn't have to be ratified by the masses.

Bald Eagle (None) - Posts: 1009 - 21/10/2015 16:47:14    1801046