Next we'll be talking about the DUP blocking rate relief for GAA clubs while allowing it for orange halls!!

Ha, now that you mention it bumper..... ;-)

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 20/10/2015 14:29:45    1800609

I don't claim to be too wise on rugby, but I gather they are very quick and effective in identifying and resolving problems in gameplay / rules. Something we (and soccer, who are even slower than us) could learn alright

flack (Dublin) - Posts: 1054 - 20/10/2015 14:51:23    1800619

20/10/2015 13:14:22 tirawleybaron
Just to even things up, here is a list of things the GAA does well
1. Democracy - any member can propose a rule change to congress - the challenge is selling it to the conservative members
2. Parish system - promotes a sense of community identity and brotherhood that cannot be matched
3. Skills - the basic core skills of GAA sports (high fielding, footpassing/striking out of hand, solo run) are seen as supreme skills in other sports
4. Man on man marking with fair contest for possession (sadly a dying art in football) is only replicated in Aussie rules
5. Kicking ball out of play - met with great cheers in Rugby and applause for defenders who clear a ball in soccer. you'd get slated for that messing in GAA.
The reality is Gaelic football has the potential to be the greatest field sport going if we could take out the negative play and handpassing.
Hurling has the same potential but needs to have the ball altered to reduce the length players can strike the ball which would increase the man v man contests Rugby has a fairly democratic system as well with its provincial branches/national organisation...........
Is the parish system and tying into a religious system really such a benefit?
Kicking ball out of play is a tactic and the means to restart the game in rugby - scrum/lineout is a full on contest for possession so very different to soccer and GAA.
That isn't the reality for gaelic football at all. Hurling has so many more attributes to be greatest field sport going than gaelic or rugby
20/10/2015 13:16:05 Damothedub
What can rugby/soccer learn from the GAA, our inferiority complex knows no bounds.
Yes GAA shows every summer it has problems, be it referring, fixture lists,lack of clarity around rules etc etc but its still the best big and small ball game played on this island. Rugby/soccer can learn a lot from GAA but where......
Lets start with Rugby, how about social inclusion, come to my neck of the woods in Dublin 15 and find me where the hell rugby is ?
Its elitist head is raised in Castleknock only, I can name every Secondry school in Dublin 15 and tell you which very very few have rugby teams or have ever had or seen a rugby coach GPO etc GAA accepts and openly encourages from all walks of life
Next soccer , well were on earth would you begin, I only have a hour for my lunch break.
Finally if you had to ask the question in the first place, says it all really Rugby is socially inclusive. There have been countless examples of work being put into a lot of the schools in those areas and development officers coaching in themlink

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 20/10/2015 14:57:00    1800620

20/10/2015 13:59:30 arock
There is a lot wrong with the GAA, both on and off the pitch, for instance the very fact we all argue over whether this is true ornot shows that Democracy is alive and kicking - it doesn't solve anything but sure that's another problem we have. Then discipline or lack of it, caused by archaic poorly defined rules are causing huge problems and yet we will argue till blue in the face. BUT despite that, the games are short, generally they are entertaining and generally played in good spirit and free from controversy. For me its all down to poor vague rules, horribly written sanctions, and Gaelic games needs to decide what parts of the games need special attention to help it evolve. Players fitness and skill levels and coaching has outgrown the rules of the game.
But can we really learn anything from other sports? I doubt it some of the other sports are just plain ugly to watch.all sports can learn from each other saying that the GAA cant is head in the sand stuff
20/10/2015 14:19:53 SaffronDon
personally I find rugby boring. Too much stop/start. The same 5 or 6 teams always playing each other and very little change in the teams that dominate. I have tried to embrace it a few times but for me it hasn't a patch on the GAA. So no! same sides in gaelic play each other for the most part and in hurling. rugby isn't really too stop start.
20/10/2015 14:25:02 Breffni39
The GAA could learn how to turn a blind eye to all the diving and cheating that's endemic in rugby all the diving and cheating???????????
20/10/2015 14:51:23 flack
I don't claim to be too wise on rugby, but I gather they are very quick and effective in identifying and resolving problems in gameplay / rules. Something we (and soccer, who are even slower than us) could learn alright That is certainly true. There will be a major conference in the next month or two when the world cup ends and major law changes will be discussed and trialled in some countries and then in a global trial and if passed they will change the law book to include them

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 20/10/2015 14:58:58    1800624

6. Drinking in the stands - does wonders for the atmosphere. Are GAA men so ignorant that we cannot be trusted to have a few drinks during a match without killing one another?

Not sure about this one. One of the most annoying things about going to a rugby match in the Aviva is the amount of people getting up and down to go in and out to the bar/loo during the game. No harm getting a break from it during the game.

bubba83 (Dublin) - Posts: 333 - 20/10/2015 15:23:10    1800639

20/10/2015 13:14:22 tirawleybaron
Just to even things up, here is a list of things the GAA does well
1. Democracy - any member can propose a rule change to congress - the challenge is selling it to the conservative members
2. Parish system - promotes a sense of community identity and brotherhood that cannot be matched
3. Skills - the basic core skills of GAA sports (high fielding, footpassing/striking out of hand, solo run) are seen as supreme skills in other sports
4. Man on man marking with fair contest for possession (sadly a dying art in football) is only replicated in Aussie rules
5. Kicking ball out of play - met with great cheers in Rugby and applause for defenders who clear a ball in soccer. you'd get slated for that messing in GAA.
The reality is Gaelic football has the potential to be the greatest field sport going if we could take out the negative play and handpassing.
Hurling has the same potential but needs to have the ball altered to reduce the length players can strike the ball which would increase the man v man contests IRFU is quite democratic. All clubs are represented on provincial branch. Senior clubs have bigger voice but all have a voice/vote
Does tying in to parish/church system not hinder rather than help attract non nationals etc......
Skills are good in GAA but other skills from rugby etc are used in GAA.......
Kicking out is seen as different because of rules/regs/laws in the sports......
Gaelic doesn't have the potential to be greatest field sport going. Too similar to too many other sports but hurling certainly does
20/10/2015 13:16:05 Damothedub
What can rugby/soccer learn from the GAA, our inferiority complex knows no bounds.
Yes GAA shows every summer it has problems, be it referring, fixture lists,lack of clarity around rules etc etc but its still the best big and small ball game played on this island. Rugby/soccer can learn a lot from GAA but where......
Lets start with Rugby, how about social inclusion, come to my neck of the woods in Dublin 15 and find me where the hell rugby is?
Its elitist head is raised in Castleknock only, I can name every Secondry school in Dublin 15 and tell you which very very few have rugby teams or have ever had or seen a rugby coach GPO etc GAA accepts and openly encourages from all walks of life
Next soccer, well were on earth would you begin, I only have a hour for my lunch break.
Finally if you had to ask the question in the first place, says it all really Rugby is socially inclusive. Leinster development officers go to all schools a lot. doing training sessions/getting kids playing matches etc
Rugby accepts and encourages all from all walks of life.
20/10/2015 14:19:53 SaffronDon
personally I find rugby boring. Too much stop/start. The same 5 or 6 teams always playing each other and very little change in the teams that dominate. I have tried to embrace it a few times but for me it hasn't a patch on the GAA. So no! you could change the word rugby with hurling and gaelic............... especially hurling and its the same.
20/10/2015 14:51:23
flack
I don't claim to be too wise on rugby, but I gather they are very quick and effective in identifying and resolving problems in gameplay / rules. Something we (and soccer, who are even slower than us) could learn alright Rugby is. Their will be laws changes following this world cup. big conferences with top pro referees/World Rugby - governing body/international rugby unions

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 20/10/2015 15:32:26    1800642

i think the most important thing would be respect for refs regardless off whether they make a mistake or not. this might include only one player (caption) allowed ask a question of the ref. i think other thing like players apealling cards, and trying to get off. etc would improve from this simple rule change

madbull (Westmeath) - Posts: 195 - 20/10/2015 15:43:36    1800646

I feel dizzy from Ormos posts. Think I'll look at a thread not about Rugby,

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 20/10/2015 15:56:56    1800656

The GAA can learn from all codes, not just rugby. They should look at AFL and use some of the rules, principles and general set-up of the Premiership that make their games more exciting to watch, it's a sad state of affairs that I am happier to watch the entire AFL season than the majority of the GAA football season. No matter how you dress it up, the football this year was tripe!

Bald Eagle (None) - Posts: 1009 - 20/10/2015 16:41:52    1800672

ormo
you could change the word rugby with hurling and gaelic............... especially hurling and its the same. you can if that's your opinion, but nothing gets the pulse going for me better than a good game of hurling or football even if it is between the same few teams. After watching several big games of Rugby I can honestly say it doesn't get the pulse raised to those levels and most games i can't even watch to the end.

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2386 - 20/10/2015 16:52:36    1800678

A rugby fan would say exactly the same SaffronDon, it just depends what you're in to really!

Bald Eagle (None) - Posts: 1009 - 20/10/2015 17:15:52    1800687

I feel dizzy from Ormos posts. Think I'll look at a thread not about Rugby,

Gas man, his posts remind me of a map of a City.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 20/10/2015 17:24:31    1800689

Bald Eagle your right and I have no problem with that. But from a personal opinion I don't want the GAA using rugby as some sort of role model big brother that we should all aspire to. They are two separate entities who are doing just fine by themselves and long may it stay that way.

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2386 - 20/10/2015 17:50:35    1800700

I know exactly where you are coming from Saffron. I just feel that if the GAA had anything about them that they would look at other bodies and nick the best ideas/methods/comp structures.

Bald Eagle (None) - Posts: 1009 - 20/10/2015 18:05:02    1800708

There's a few things I like about rugby.

1 Sin bin for cynical dangerous fouls. I think refs would be more inclined to sin bin a player and put him out of the game for 10 minutes rather than black card him and have him have to be replaced. It's also a bigger punishment for his team having to do without a man.

2 The time keeping is way better being out of the hands of the ref. Probably unrealistic at club level but possible at county level.

3 I think the run their competitions off better. World Cup gets done and dusted in 7 weeks. Six nations the same. At the same time the provincial rugby teams are still playing their competitions, but are still available to play the big cup games. GAA needs to start playing their competitions off quicker. It shouldn't take 34 weeks to run off the inter county season, where teams can play as few as 9 matches (I'm ignoring the preseason competitions which I'm hoping have had their day), even Dublin only played 16 league and championship games in those 34 weeks in winning both competitions. Get county teams playing more games in a shorter time frame. Let club players play their club leagues without county players. They can have them back for club championship, which have more time to be ran off properly if the All Ireland gets played earlier.

4 I like the TMO might be difficult to introduce in GAA outside the top grounds.

5 On rugby referees, I think they earn their respect. They are very good given how marginal some of the calls are. Something important too is that there is proper dialogue between them and the players. If a team is unsure of the reason for a decision their captain can speak with the ref. One of the most frustrating things for me in Gaelic is the attitude of many refs to players, there's a cockiness to them, they can make a blatant mistake and then wantonly bring the ball 14 yards forward when a player lets out his frustration.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4240 - 20/10/2015 20:15:09    1800749

The GAA can learn from Soccer by having a red card for cycnical fouls.A black/yellow is not harsh enough.

Any off the ball body checks or players being hauled to the ground should be a red card offence.

It will never happen though as there is far too much sympathy for the players in the GAA rather than viewing the players who break the rules a cancer within the game and something being done to get rid of it.

uibhfhaili1986 (Offaly) - Posts: 1296 - 21/10/2015 08:15:19    1800785

2 The time keeping is way better being out of the hands of the ref. Probably unrealistic at club level but possible at county level.

THis idea is what annoys me most about GAA.
I have played basketball most of my life and from the age of U10 upwards there is someone sitting at a desk beside the court whose job it is to start and stop the clock. They then ring a bell or blow a horn or whatever to signal the end of a half/quarter and there is no drama. They are even able to stop the clock for timeouts when required. This person does not need a degree in maths either, just reasonable hand eye coordination and the ability to see what the ref is doing.

How are the GAA not able to do this? Anyone who thinks this cannot be done at every GAA match any every level up and down the country is a clown.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1126 - 21/10/2015 08:28:28    1800788

All sports can learn from one another, its how it should be. The GAA can learn from other sports, other sports can learn from the GAA

Of course there are elements of the GAA that bury their heads in the sand and consider it a them and us or more specifically a them versus us scenario so we should ignore all aspects of their games even if it would benefit our own. Then of course there is the level of ignorance that prevails where GAA people see people involved in Rugby etc as the enemy and somehow less Irish than they are as has been evident on here. Specifically there are things we could learn.

Refereeing: On the pitch during a rugby game the refs word is final, end off. Its great to see, we could do the same in GAA no problem. Off the pitch then when the ref gets it wrong they admit it and punish, Joubert erred at the weekend in the rugby and as a result is now dropped for the semi final games.

Sin Bin: I was talking to a Kiwi after the Romania world cup game and he was quizzing me about the GAA showing a real interest in football as he came from the same area as a rugby player called Barret who had spoken previously of spending time in Ireland and loving playing football when he was here. He was quizzing me and asking about whether we had a sin bin etc and i explained the black card system. He actually took a step back looked at me and asked are you serious?? So say for an example with 10 mins to go you perform a cynical foul to prevent a crucial score and as punishment for that you are allowed to bring on a substitute?? He said im completely bemused and i said dont worry so is most of Ireland.

Time Keeping: in the all ireland football final this year the game lasted 77 mins the ball was out of play or stopped for 32 mins, the average i believe is 34 mins. Cluxton routinely takes over a minute to kick a free, keepers routinely take 30 seconds to a minute to kick out the ball. Take the time keeping out of the hands of the referee, this would be easy enough to implement in fairness.

TMO: Would be great but not sure if its feasible for the GAA, the TMO in rugby was picking up incidents as play went on, it would seriously cut down a lot of the off the ball stuff but again not sure if feasible.

Fixtures: in general at club level the average players gets completely screwed around. In general ye get the 1st couple of championship rounds out of the way after that its a lottery, "well we might be playing next weekend if the county team loses this weekend if not it will be the next weekend depending on whether they win the qualifier but then the hurlers are out so if they win then it will go back at least 2 weeks and may be played the week after unless the footballers have gotten through the qualifiers!!" You think well f-it anyway im booking a holiday for mid July only to find out your playing the sunday your due to fly out. In general at local level with soccer and rugby they know when they are playing and can plan accordingly.

Admitting flaws in our own sports and looking at other sports to try and make our own even better isnt a sign of weakness, its a sign of wanting to make our own the best it can be.

We do an awful lot of things right in our games but other sports are looking at a lot of things we do well and trying to replicate those things such as reaching into rural areas and coaching at primary schools level etc. We can either sit whinging, call them less irish etc etc or fight back by improving our own games.

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1351 - 21/10/2015 09:10:39    1800794

Jesus the negativity around the GAA is amazing.

All sports have positives and negatives, but we have this small island mentality that we believe if its Irish it is not good enough.

Last year brought my French mates over to Ireland, all rugby lads from the SouthWest. They wanted to see GAA matches, so they were brought to club matches all the way up to Intercounty.

They actually think the GAA is one of the most amazing organisations they have ever come across!! They cannot believe people give up there time for free (even in the lowest Junior Z level in france some money is paid to trainers etc) and how structured it is.

Could it improve? Always!

But can for once we have a thread on how good it is?

witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 21/10/2015 09:18:14    1800796

Spot on in relation to the ridiculous negativity surrounding Gaelic football witnof. Soma rightly highlighted the positivity of Namibia celebrating at the end of their last game in The Rugby World Cup. They were well beaten by Argentina and lost all games . But they were applauded for their celebration of their pride in their performances and rightly so . Contrast that with the reaction in certain quarters to Fermanaghs celebrations with their families in Croke Park at the end of a long and successful season. This is a county with a population of not much than 60,000 people half of whom might not be best disposed to Gaelic games. There are only 22 clubs in the county. Yet when they rightly celebrated a long, successful season and a competitive performance against the best team in the land they are castigated by some . Twisted or what ?

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 21/10/2015 12:25:10    1800904