Not sure you have to go back so far in History

N McGee ,K Lacey, P McMahon, M O Se, K Higgins, M Shields, B Owens, F Bellew, Ger Cafferky, C Gormley, Justin McMahon

All "greater"

But you are not allowed count the Tyrone or Donegal players or Mark O Se(2014) as they all played in counter attacking/defensive structure teams
However O Carroll only has 1 All Ireland by that rationale as all of 2011 (and the 2015 draw v Mayo) are discounted under the OP's logic

ruanua (Donegal) - Posts: 4966 - 12/10/2015 15:32:34    1798081

N McGee ,K Lacey, P McMahon, M O Se, K Higgins, M Shields, B Owens, F Bellew, Ger Cafferky, C Gormley, Justin McMahon


Karl Lacey great player but no full back, Philly is a corner back, Higgins is a corner back, Ger Caff better than The Roc haha now your just being silly, Francie good player not in ROC's league, Justin McMahon better than the Roc stop it , Cormley is a centre back or corner back , shields has taken to many roasting's to be on that list , Marc O Se is a corner back.


We're talking about full backs and half of them aren't full backs and the rest are not near his standard.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 12/10/2015 15:45:47    1798086

OK I've got it now

Greatest Player to have played at full back excluding players who have played in other positions other than No.3 - excluding players from Donegal, excluding players from teams that have used a Sweeper System- excluding anyone that conceded 2 points to a full forward in the 2009 all Ireland Quarter final - excluding anyone who lost one high ball to Aidan o Shea this year, excluding anyone who kept James O Donohoe , Bernard Brogan, Connor McManus and Jamie Clarke scoreless from play in the same championship, excluding anyone who had a bad game in 2010, excluding anyone that was born in a month with an R, Excluding anyone whose initials aren't ROC

I agree but its a close call between him and his brother

ruanua (Donegal) - Posts: 4966 - 12/10/2015 16:32:16    1798112

Not at all but it's a bit unfair to judge someone whose played a few games at full back better than someone who has played his whole career at full back surely any poster will agree with that.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 12/10/2015 16:38:52    1798114

I'm trying to highlight the inconsistency and selectivity of your approach

Neil McGee is a full back I'm sure you won't argue with that
In the past 5 years he has got to All Ireland semi final on three occasions and the final twice
On each of those three occasions he was selected as the best full back in the country by his fellow players
Rory o Carroll has one all star which he received for being on an All Ireland winning team (also a year that McGee did not play in a semi Final)
Typically the number of All Stars given to teams that exited before the Semi final ranges from nil to a max of two
I would regard it as more difficult for McGee to win one - as firstly he does not play on a side that has overall panel strength that Dublin has and also he plays for a side that will have a tougher route to a semi final.
O Carroll has Played in each of the past 5 semi finals - with one all star
He won an All Ireland in 2011 and did not receive one (considering half of the All stars go to the winning team)
Clearly ROC has not stood out in the two recent years that Dublin did not win SAM

I don't understand the relevance of McGee playing on a poorly disciplined/motivated Donegal team in the last decade(Also struggling to see how you can compare him against O carroll in that period) Also I Don't agree that he had a poor season - He got beaten for one high ball against Aidan O Shea (which is 5 less that ROC got done for against Cork or Meath a few years ago) and Id put him at fault for 1 McManus point in the Ulster Final

So over the past five years McGee has been "greater" than ROC but any measurement you want to use (except one you make up)


Though on that point I regard McGee as very good full back certainly not one who has come close to say the standard needed for POTY (If you want to talk about Great Defenders then that's where Karl Lacey comes in - of the current Dublin team Cluxton and Bernard Brogan would be the only two that would come close to my interpretation of the word )

ruanua (Donegal) - Posts: 4966 - 12/10/2015 17:15:24    1798126

You can't understand how a player who has 15 of him own team mates around him in his own half makes it easier for him to look good ? You really don't get that? You also can't understand that before this tactic came in no one ever heard of McGee? Which imo means he obviously struggled without the help of his ten sweepers. McGee also won his first all star in '11 my granny could of won that all star with all the help he got that year and there both dead ffs. McGee who his first all star in 11 at 26 Roc will have 2 all stars at 25 and I guarantee you there be more cause he is the greatest.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 12/10/2015 19:09:40    1798153

You have already made that point - surely then not just you but people who play the game at the highest level can allow for the fact that McGee had help from sweepers - the players that pick the all stars

So why did ROC not feature in 12/13 or 14 All stars - surely the greatest defender of all time could make the top 3 judged by his peers

Also if you think he is better than Barry Owens or Cormac macanallen then you forgot to take your reality pills

ruanua (Donegal) - Posts: 4966 - 12/10/2015 19:38:46    1798167

The greatest defender who ever played in the history of Gaelic Football, but has one all star. And now we should discount all others, especially more celebrated defenders who come from Donegal.

All this rubbish about blanket defences and Dublin used it all year...

This man has some logic. Hilarious

Donegal_abroad (Donegal) - Posts: 1321 - 12/10/2015 19:46:07    1798174

He was robbed of an all star in '10 '11 and '12 complete robbery, McGee's direct opponent in the '11 semi was motm now that was shocking for such a good full back with all that help especially in that game. Remind me again who was motm in the under 21 all Ireland final in '10 marking Micheal Murphy?

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 12/10/2015 20:05:05    1798179

Some Defenders with 3 or more all stars

Robbie Kelleher
Robbie o malley
Darren Fay
Paul Curran
Karl Lacey
Tomas o se
Seamus Moynihan
John O keefe
Conor Gormley
Keith Higgins
Neil McGee


Some with one

C Harrison
M foley
C Walshe
Cian o Sullivan
Ciaran o Sullivan
Tom Kelly
Joe Higgins
K Fitzgerald
Matt Gallagher
Eamon been
ROC

ruanua (Donegal) - Posts: 4966 - 12/10/2015 20:23:28    1798188

2011 semi final - Brogan scored from frees - so unless McGee was supposed to stand on the crossbar and save them I don't get your point
I'm not sure of where you are going with u 21 - McGee kept his man scoreless I in cumman na mbunscoil in 1995 but I'd hardly use that as an argument

Also in 2014 Roc plus 5 defenders shipped 3 goals against 1 forward -

ruanua (Donegal) - Posts: 4966 - 12/10/2015 20:34:41    1798190

12/10/2015 20:23:28
ruanua
County: Donegal
Posts: 4761

1798188 Some Defenders with 3 or more all stars

Robbie Kelleher
Robbie o malley
Darren Fay
Paul Curran
Karl Lacey
Tomas o se
Seamus Moynihan
John O keefe
Conor Gormley
Keith Higgins
Neil McGee


Some with one

C Harrison
M foley
C Walshe
Cian o Sullivan
Ciaran o Sullivan
Tom Kelly
Joe Higgins
K Fitzgerald
Matt Gallagher
Eamon been
ROC
John O'keefe was the greatest full back i ever saw. Sean Welsh after that. Other than them how many of the above defenders have won 3 All Irelands playing at full backs?? All Stars are oveerated. I'm sure McGee would rather have 3 all ireland medals than 3 all stars?

HughHunt24 (Cork) - Posts: 841 - 13/10/2015 08:58:15    1798237

12/10/2015 16:32:16
ruanua
County: Donegal
Posts: 4761

1798112 OK I've got it now

Greatest Player to have played at full back excluding players who have played in other positions other than No.3 - excluding players from Donegal, excluding players from teams that have used a Sweeper System- excluding anyone that conceded 2 points to a full forward in the 2009 all Ireland Quarter final - excluding anyone who lost one high ball to Aidan o Shea this year, excluding anyone who kept James O Donohoe , Bernard Brogan, Connor McManus and Jamie Clarke scoreless from play in the same championship, excluding anyone who had a bad game in 2010, excluding anyone that was born in a month with an R, Excluding anyone whose initials aren't ROC

I agree but its a close call between him and his brother

in fairness there was 3 players marking them forwards with McHugh and McLoone sweeping in front. MCgee should be dedicating All Stars to them lads

HughHunt24 (Cork) - Posts: 841 - 13/10/2015 09:00:41    1798238

A Donegal forward scored 3 goals against Dublin ? McFadden 2 Mchugh 1 no? Also Donegal with McGee and 14 defenders shipped 5 goals against Mayo in '13 what's your point? McGee and Donegal have taken a lot more bad beatings than the Roc and Dublin have so if you want me to mention them hammerings I will no problem? Also if you haven't noticed posters keep putting up a video of some college game that no one cares about so I'm just letting everyone know who was motm in the 21 game in '10 that was on live tv not some mobile phone.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 13/10/2015 09:12:18    1798242

in fairness there was 3 players marking them forwards with McHugh and McLoone sweeping in front. MCgee should be dedicating All Stars to them lads


Hahaha stop it it highhunt sure look at the amount of All Stars he won before he had all the help in the world.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 13/10/2015 10:24:51    1798261

ruanua
OK I've got it now
Greatest Player to have played at full back excluding players who have played in other positions other than No.3 - excluding players from Donegal, excluding players from teams that have used a Sweeper System- excluding anyone that conceded 2 points to a full forward in the 2009 all Ireland Quarter final - excluding anyone who lost one high ball to Aidan o Shea this year, excluding anyone who kept James O Donohoe , Bernard Brogan, Connor McManus and Jamie Clarke scoreless from play in the same championship, excluding anyone who had a bad game in 2010, excluding anyone that was born in a month with an R, Excluding anyone whose initials aren't ROC


You forgot the part where you completely ignore that O'Carroll has only come into this level of form, while playing behind a double sweeper system himself...


Imagine how good Darren Fay would have been with two sweepers...

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 13/10/2015 11:10:54    1798274

ROC will or will not be given an all star this year based on his own merits and nothing else. I think that he had a great year this year no doubt. He should get one

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 13/10/2015 12:00:26    1798299

Damian Hendy, Davy Dalton, Glen Ryan & Ollie Lyons were superior full backs than O'Caroll

pdempsey (Mayo) - Posts: 1313 - 13/10/2015 12:04:55    1798301

clondalkindub
County: Dublin
Posts: 6832

1798242
A Donegal forward scored 3 goals against Dublin ? McFadden 2 Mchugh 1 no? Also Donegal with McGee and 14 defenders shipped 5 goals against Mayo in '13 what's your point? McGee and Donegal have taken a lot more bad beatings than the Roc and Dublin have so if you want me to mention them hammerings I will no problem? Also if you haven't noticed posters keep putting up a video of some college game that no one cares about so I'm just letting everyone know who was motm in the 21 game in '10 that was on live tv not some mobile phone.

I dont understand the logic here. No donegal player got an all star in 2013 and none were looking for one nor deserved one. If there were one awarded to McGee in 2013 or anyone else for that mater, then you could bring it into the discussion as being an invalid or undeserving all star nomination or award. ROC has a bit to go to claim to be the best ever defender. I think that he is one of the best at the moment for sure. Like everything else, even outside of sport, if you claim or are put forward as being the best ever, then you are looking for trouble!

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 13/10/2015 12:10:12    1798304

The Master remind everyone two years ago who you thought the best full back in Ireland was??? You've gone real quiet on that one now how come?

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 13/10/2015 12:21:55    1798307