Last orders ladies n gents please...bar is closing soon ...so lets be upstanding for the national anthem as we all got hammered in the cause of irish patriotism lest you forget
This tooooown is feeling like a ghost town

AnBuachaillGlas (Fermanagh) - Posts: 287 - 30/09/2015 10:10:02    1794066

slayer from limerick..if you dont know the most iconic speech ever from Ian Paisley then Im afraid my post is lost on you...

AnBuachaillGlas (Fermanagh) - Posts: 287 - 30/09/2015 10:12:59    1794068

I am talking about the average joe protestant in ulster. If taking down a flag and stopping an anthem helps welcome them into the fold then surely as a tolerant people we should do it.

Or we could look to people like Sean Og O'Hailpin and Lee Chin who come from families of mixed ethnicity and who have played the games we love and given their all, flag or no flag, anthem or no anthem.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 30/09/2015 10:16:50    1794070

slayer from limerick..if you dont know the most iconic speech ever from Ian Paisley then Im afraid my post is lost on you...

ah bless, you were attempting irony, sarcasm or something like that? :-)

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 30/09/2015 10:18:29    1794071

slayer your input is a mystery to me ..Lee Chin and Sean Og ? so what
Slayer you know when you have to break down the joke to the slow guy at the table and then the moment is lost entirely...experience that much ?

Redhand defender WELL SAID SIR even if ye are from tyrone

AnBuachaillGlas (Fermanagh) - Posts: 287 - 30/09/2015 10:24:27    1794075

Slayer you know when you have to break down the joke to the slow guy at the table and then the moment is lost entirely...experience that much ?


Ah now, there is no need to call anyone slow!

But look, people have different ideas on this matter. Personally, I am for retaining the flag and anthem at inter county games.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 30/09/2015 10:30:21    1794083

I'll just leave this here for Jarlath and the usual suspects. Its worth a read considering these are the very people we are being told to reach out to. This is the largest party in a devolution government who just happen to have similar views to the KKK.


http://www.irishnews.com/news/2015/09/26/news/most-dup-members-oppose-relatives-marrying-catholics-says-survey-273362/

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 30/09/2015 10:40:58    1794087

slayer

Because we live in Ireland, this is an Irish organisation. Removing the flag and anthem say from the Munster Hurling Championship would in effect reduce it to a game between two counties within one part of Ireland, nothing to do with Ireland. I think the link to our country needs to remain and having the flag and anthem present at inter county games keeps that link.

But to be fair that's exactly what the Munster final is = a game between 2 teams within a certain part of Ireland and it's great, but if they didn't play the anthem before it, it wouldn't take anything away from it for me, I just love watching the game.

I would still be a fan, but why then take part? It might as well be ice hockey between (for example) Limerick and Tipperary if we lose all sense of Irishness. There is nothing political at all in my thinking. No problem if you don't understand the attitude but I am just trying to put my point across, definitely not looking for a row of any sort.

Again I'm struggling here, I've never gone to a Gaa match for a "sense of Irishness" ever, I just love the sports and I honestly don't think I ever could lose my sense of Irishness anyway, I am Irish, always have been and always will be, nothing will ever change that. Listen I'm not looking for a row either and some of my mates would probably feel the same way about them anthem but I certainly would hold totally different views.

If you are happy to be Irish but are not interested in National pride, then there is no need to sing the anthem or face the flag. As mentioned here yesterday, the American National anthem is sung before the superbowl, 'God Save the Queen' is sung before the FA Cup final. I watch both, I completely respect the right of both countries to have those anthems sung. I am glad you agree about not removing them to pander to anyone.

Well look I'd be happy for the anthem to be kept for provincial finals and All-Ireland finals, I suppose it can add to the sense of occasion but again, before every single game, no, I honestly think that devalues it and it becomes a monotonous routine.

Ps, I agree removing the anthem and flag should not be considered to pander to Unionists, but I do see a lot of similarities between Unionists and Nationalists ie = stone mad for their anthems, their flags, their culture etc etc opposite sides of the same coin really.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 30/09/2015 10:53:37    1794095

redhanddefender
County: Tyrone
Posts: 748

a tolerant society recognises what symbols and signs intimidate your neighbour! Its not panbdering to the hard line unionist community who will never change.

I am talking about the average joe protestant in ulster. If taking down a flag and stopping an anthem helps welcome them into the fold then surely as a tolerant people we should do it.

It is not enough to say, sure they won't do this or they won't do that we have to as the GAA has on many occasions take the first stap!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with this. This is not about encouraging Gregory Campbell to pick up a hurl, as people like him are as likely to be seen at a GAA game as dissident Republicans are at a hockey match. It's about reaching out to middle-of-the-road protestants. There are many of those who have a strong interest in the GAA and regular watch televised matches, but they would run the risk of intimidation from their own side if they decided to participate. Would the removal of the flag/anthem or certain club names help in that regard? I think it would, and would therefore be supportive of the change (I could even be persuaded to change my own username here!).

Some people are talking about the beliefs of our founding fathers, but we are being selective when it comes to maintaining that heritage. Which of us, in 2015, would support Thomas Croke's rule that anyone playing 'foreign' sports should be banned from the GAA? Time moves on, and I don't think that we need to be so insular and protective of our Irishness than when we were being discriminated against by Britain. Tradition is important, but I'd never want to be a slave to it.

As for Jarlath Burns, it's very easy for people to accuse him of saying something he doesn't believe in order to become GAA President but, as others have pointed out, I don't see how a clearly unpopular course of action would help him in that cause anyway. Also, Jarlath strikes me as his own man. He recently led some of his schoolchildren on an LGBT rights march, something that most catholic headteachers in the North would be terrified to do, for fear of annoying conservative parents. None of us know Jarlath well enough to know what he really believes, therefore I'm inclined to take his sincerity at his word.

Thomas Clarke (Tyrone) - Posts: 1002 - 30/09/2015 10:55:47    1794099

Offside Rule Burns visited that say Orange museum in
July and said there was no need for them to fly a Tricour.
No need for the Orange Order to be inclusive but the GAA
needs to reach out to a community whose hatred of
anything Irish defines their sense of being.Talk about
double standards!!!

He should apologise and forget about his stupid idea.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1618 - 30/09/2015 11:01:40    1794103

He had no right to bring those kids to a march, thomasclarke, school is for learning, not brainwashing. He has no problem offending when it's politically correct, it seems

flack (Dublin) - Posts: 1054 - 30/09/2015 11:44:32    1794131

REDANDBLACK30
County: Down
Posts: 920

1794103 Offside Rule Burns visited that say Orange museum in
July and said there was no need for them to fly a Tricour.
No need for the Orange Order to be inclusive but the GAA
needs to reach out to a community whose hatred of
anything Irish defines their sense of being.Talk about
double standards!!!

He should apologise and forget about his stupid idea.


So you see the GAA as the nationalist version of the orange order? Catch a grip. Most Protestants in the north don't even go out on the 12th for god sake.

Its sport, should be open to anyone who wants to play it.

Lee Chin and Sean og o'halpin class themselves as Irish. Protestants in the north do not. For obvious reasons there is years of stigma attached to both flags and anthems. If integrating hem helps build a better more understanding society then we should do it.

redhanddefender (Tyrone) - Posts: 913 - 30/09/2015 11:45:42    1794133

Two entrenched sets of eejits arguing over whos the biggest fool. I find it depressing that once again a discussion descends into name calling, politicking and one eyed history lessons. Sure why don't we play the Australian anthem and use an oval ball and maybe play on a circular field, there's no dilution of our identity by pandering to Australians so why the moral outrage when a discussion point, not a mandate is raised.

Our ancestors were effectively slaughtered in the US when they arrived because they were cheaper than the slaves yet we all see the scramble for people to get the J1 because its great craic out there, no entrenched ideas based upon history there. If your sense of identity is solely linked to a flag and/or anthem then it doesnt say a lot and I wouldn't mind so much but no one waits for the end of it anyway. Faux outrage from people who could start an argument in an empty room.

By the way I'd like to see it kept not because it represents our identity in any way I just think its good to know where you come from but do you know what if it stopped would that offend me to my very core, not a chance. People need to remove tradition from their thinking because not all traditions are good, in the 60's in the UK it was tradition to discriminate against Irish coming across the water, did we stop, not a chance, things change and sometimes even for the better.

Burns hasn't said he is for or against anything he raised a discussion point and seeing from the vitriol which some people jump to a conclusion maybe the differences between the 'fleg' protesters outside Belfast city hall and some some of our fellow posters aren't so great, apparently taking the moral high ground is something that is an inconceivable idea, shame.

duckula20 (Antrim) - Posts: 175 - 30/09/2015 11:46:23    1794134

Personally, I think we need to take ownership back of the Irish flag. It should be outside every public building - school, library, council office, hospital. For too long the Irish flag has been used as a symbol of republicanism in Northern Ireland, and ignored in the Republic of Ireland.
When I travel to places like London, or the rest of England, the Union Jack is everywhere and rightly so. As a visitor to their country it does not bother me. They have pride in it, but when I go up north and see a Union Jack, I feel uncomfortable. It represents division and symbolism that brings memories of hate and violence. Whether we like it or not, the Irish Flag up north also brings out uncomfortable feeling for many people, as it holds that same symbolism.

Roger (Meath) - Posts: 471 - 30/09/2015 12:14:23    1794154

By the way I'd like to see it kept not because it represents our identity in any way I just think its good to know where you come from but do you know what if it stopped would that offend me to my very core, not a chance. People need to remove tradition from their thinking because not all traditions are good, in the 60's in the UK it was tradition to discriminate against Irish coming across the water, did we stop, not a chance, things change and sometimes even for the better.



Very fair point duckula20 but what 'better' would this change bring about?

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 30/09/2015 12:14:42    1794155

Well look I'd be happy for the anthem to be kept for provincial finals and All-Ireland finals, I suppose it can add to the sense of occasion but again, before every single game, no, I honestly think that devalues it and it becomes a monotonous routine.

Fair enough. There may be some merit to what you say there.

However I wonder if this was trialled for 2 years in the Ulster Championship, would we see an increased participation in GAA by the Unioninst community?

I think there are 2 separate arguments here: 1 - making members of the Unionist community feel comfortable with the GAA, 2 - other reasons as to why the flag should be removed and from what games.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 30/09/2015 12:21:44    1794165

30/09/2015 08:22:54
DoireCityFC
County: Derry
Posts: 1216

1794002 "Also, this rubbish about running for the gaa presidency. Have you actually stopped to consider that scenario in any way? How is saying something that alienates many, going to win you votes? What popularity manual did you read that one in? It is complete garbage."


Sorry bumpernut I went through every post twice on this with my morning coffee and cannot see where I mentioned the GAA presidency. Please enlighten me if you will

Funny that, so did I, so go for it!

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 30/09/2015 12:29:41    1794173

Some quality trolling on here ..All agenda - ridden of course .

Anyway Why would anyone pander to a bigot ? Unionists are saying they don't play GAA effectively because of its Irishness .They are bigots and the GAA will not appease them . JB is clever enough to know that this suggestion will hold sway with some southern counties when his presidential campaign kicks off .But it is a lot of wishy-washy nonsense .

Finsceal (None) - Posts: 559 - 30/09/2015 12:37:40    1794177

30/09/2015 08:54:24 Tim_Burr
Ormondbannerman - wrong. If you seriously think a fine club like Kevin Lynch Dungiven or O Donovan Rossa in Belfast will change their names to be more inclusive youre totally deluded. Its not going to happen, shouldnt happen and there is no need for it to happen and Jarlath Burns knows this.
There are children playing for clubs in Down and the rest of Ulster who are from a unionist background, some from English/foreign backgrounds and their parents couldnt give a fig about names or symbols.
These children are having fun with their friends and their parents love being part of a wider community spirit. As i said earlier those who wish to take part are very welcome and those like the DUP and their ilk wont have anything to do with the GAA but will try to use comments from Jarlath Burns and others, who are after positions of power within the GAA, for their own narrow agenda. Im not wrong at all. Using politicalised names like that in such a political cauldron totally doe not help bring about closer ties across communities.
You don't see any clubs in sports named after loyalist criminals etc so why should there be clubs named after people with a clear political link.
30/09/2015 09:36:22 SaffronDon
Even if we put a union jack outside every GAA ground and played God Save the Queen before every match in an effort to welcome Unionists it wouldn't be enough to attract the vast majority of them. The simple fact is that Unionists in the north are led by bigots who want to keep their own traditions and trample down anyone elses (and I'm not just talking about Catholics either, ask Eastern Europeans or the Muslim community). This may not be every Unionist's belief but the bigots are voted in time and time again and do their best to poison the GAA and Irish culture on a regular basis without shame.
Playing Gaelic football in Belfast I have seen Dutch, Polish and African lads playing for their local club but with the exception of a Protestant lad with a Catholic mother that I know(who is well respected for who he is at the club), there are none from the Unionist side of the community that show any interest for the game that I know off.
I can honestly say that if I got a feeling that the Unionist community would embrace our games in great numbers with a few simple tweaks then I would support that change. But the overriding feeling I get is that Northern Ireland Unionists reject a multicultural society in many ways and with many cultures and I have absolutely no problem singing my national anthem loud and clear to irritate the ears of bigots, and for Unionists who are not bigoted they shouldn't find offence in a lad singing his national anthem. Because simply a flag and anthem isn't enough. Attitudes in many clubs is against in one form or another.... sure how many clubs have a mass before their AGM etc?????
There is bigots on both sides of the divide.
slayer
So you will support the removal of the National Flag and National Anthem but you still want to wear the county colours? Do you see a paradox there?
I have to say if Burns' proposals are adopted that would more or less end my interest in GAA for good.
We should be proud of who we are and encourage people to join, not pander to a tiny minority of people who have little or no interest anyway.county colours are used as a differentiation of a different kind and cannot be used in a similar tone as national flags/anthems.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 30/09/2015 13:05:04    1794195

but why would you play the national anthem when the national team is not playing? I'm yet to see a logical explanation to that.
30/09/2015 09:56:54 slayer
Because we live in Ireland, this is an Irish organisation. Removing the flag and anthem say from the Munster Hurling Championship would in effect reduce it to a game between two counties within one part of Ireland, nothing to do with Ireland. I think the link to our country needs to remain and having the flag and anthem present at inter county games keeps that link. In how many sporting organisations world wide are national anthems played before virtually any game of any significance locally? Removing the national anthem from a Munster hurling championship game doesn't reduce it to anything less than it is.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 30/09/2015 13:05:11    1794196