Just out of interest what would the Protestant Community in the South views be on the GAA ie: in terms of participation.

TyroneUltra (Tyrone) - Posts: 307 - 02/10/2015 13:22:53    1795165

Spirit of 1991 I respect your opinion.

You seem to think that people that dont want the
anthem removed because they want to annoy
Unionists but it is not the case merely that they
want to uphold a sense of tradition and national
pride that the other tradition has sought to eradicate.

Miss Down Fanatic is one of the most passionate
fans I have seen on here from any county.To tell
her that she would be better of joining an AOH
club is very wrong.I would far rather have her
supporting Down than the people you want
to entice.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1618 - 02/10/2015 14:04:15    1795188

Spirit of 1991 I respect your opinion.

You seem to think that people that dont want the
anthem removed because they want to annoy
Unionists but it is not the case merely that they
want to uphold a sense of tradition and national
pride that the other tradition has sought to eradicate.

Miss Down Fanatic is one of the most passionate
fans I have seen on here from any county.To tell
her that she would be better of joining an AOH
club is very wrong.I would far rather have her
supporting Down than the people you want
to entice.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1618 - 02/10/2015 14:04:51    1795189

Slayer it's sad that you have no interest in the actual games. How do you pass the time at games (maybe you don'go) after the anthem has been played? Do you just sit gazing at the flag?.

neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 02/10/2015 14:28:35    1795200

Slayer it's sad that you have no interest in the actual games. How do you pass the time at games (maybe you don'go) after the anthem has been played? Do you just sit gazing at the flag?.

ah Good attempt there in fairness :-)

You see if you took the approach that htaem took and pointed out that often for double headers the anthem is not played for the first game, you would have made a good point, but instead you tried to be funny and made, well, no point.

I got to 1 senior game in 2015 and 0 U21 games. Family first before GAA!

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 02/10/2015 14:39:59    1795205

bumpernut
County: Antrim
Posts: 1013

1795033
'The only reason i voted for enda kennys party at last election'

Quick..... stop the presses!!
________________________
In fairness Royaldunne has always struck me as a man of tremendous principle, I mean he has now stated that he won't vote for Enda because he wasn't true to his word on the Irish language, never mind water charges, government corruption, etc.

brendtheredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 10897 - 02/10/2015 14:45:44    1795208

Tyrone Ultra - My imopression is that Protestant participation in RoI is close to fully integreated. Although they are very much in the minority, so the situation is very different. Also, the Tri-colour and Anthem are undidputed in that terratory so conflicting identity issues do not apply to the same extent.

Another key point I wwould make about this is that "Southerners" regard Northern Nationialists and Unionists as very much two sides of the same bigoted coin.


Many Northerners need to wake up to the fact that most people in the Republic are extremely happy with partition in the context of staying out of a 2 sided and pointless sectarian conflict in the north. The vast majority wouldn't touch Northern Ireland with a barge pole.

I'd say that it would be hardder to persuade the Republic to join a united Ireland than the Unionists.

In my experience Northern Catholics are mainly oblivious to this fact.

Therefore I am afraid, whether we like it or not, we need to reconcile with Unionists before Nationalism can truely flourish.

Hence my position on this issue.

spiritof1991 (Down) - Posts: 693 - 02/10/2015 14:47:18    1795209

spiritof1991
County: Down
Posts: 640
_______________________
So Peter Withnall wasn't at all intimidated or put off playing GAA because of the presence of the tricolour nor the playing of the anthem?

brendtheredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 10897 - 02/10/2015 14:49:46    1795211

brendtheredhand
County: Tyrone
Posts: 10669

So Peter Withnall wasn't at all intimidated or put off playing GAA because of the presence of the tricolour nor the playing of the anthem?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brend, it's very easy to pick out individual instances, and use them to justify a point. Evidently, no, it didn't bother Withnall, or at least not enough to dissuade him from playing. Rather than highlight examples of people who it 'clearly didn't bother', I'd be more interested in looking at those protestants who are interested enough to watch the games on television, but don't get involved beyond that. Those are sportspeople who clearly enjoy our games yet, for whatever reason, haven't yet taken the next step towards participating.

I just don't see what is so precious about a flag or a song (neither of which have any great aesthetic qualities). Every nation on earth has a flag and a song, but we are the only country with gaelic football and hurling. Ireland should be proud of its wonderful people, its natural beauty, its contributions to the arts and its fabulous sporting pastimes. In my eyes, these are the type of things that make a country, not tokens or emblems. I'd be far more interested in protecting and sharing our wonderful sports and trying to grow them, starting with our neighbours, rather than being precious about an anthem or a flag.

Thomas Clarke (Tyrone) - Posts: 1002 - 02/10/2015 15:11:33    1795220

RedhandTyrone

The same article says this;

Contrary to what some believe, he was not hounded out by a wave of sectarian abuse from the terraces.

"There were one or two idiots but it was the same in the soccer. It was just because I had a strange name and we all know what the north was like during the 80s and the 90s. There was a few scumbags who would turn up at games but that was it."


You can read the article in full here

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/mourne-mauler-131019.html

Drumaness is a great example to all of us. It's a small village, but has a great soccer team, Drumaness Mills, for whom Down legend Brendan Mason also played and managed. They also have a good criket team and all 3 fields are within a few hundred metres of each other, without any bother that I have heard of at any stage.

Ballynahinch Rugby is also in the same area, within 10 miles or so, and people from that town would play GAA for Drumaness.

The area is a good example of what is possible in the North I think. The very same tolerence that is common place in Dublin, Limerick and all over the Republic.

spiritof1991 (Down) - Posts: 693 - 02/10/2015 15:12:15    1795221

County: Down
Posts: 641

1795209 Tyrone Ultra - My imopression is that Protestant participation in RoI is close to fully integreated. Although they are very much in the minority, so the situation is very different. Also, the Tri-colour and Anthem are undidputed in that terratory so conflicting identity issues do not apply to the same extent.

Another key point I wwould make about this is that "Southerners" regard Northern Nationialists and Unionists as very much two sides of the same bigoted coin.


Many Northerners need to wake up to the fact that most people in the Republic are extremely happy with partition in the context of staying out of a 2 sided and pointless sectarian conflict in the north. The vast majority wouldn't touch Northern Ireland with a barge pole.

I'd say that it would be hardder to persuade the Republic to join a united Ireland than the Unionists.

In my experience Northern Catholics are mainly oblivious to this fact.

Therefore I am afraid, whether we like it or not, we need to reconcile with Unionists before Nationalism can truely flourish.

Hence my position on this issue.'


Examples please?? rather than the same old clichés

As for the remainder of your argument it is pure speculation as I could equally use the same argument flipped.

Id say there are more nationalists in the 32 counties than unionists and I include in the latter category some on this forum.

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 02/10/2015 15:18:03    1795224

brendtheredhand
County: Tyrone
Posts: 10669

1795208 bumpernut
County: Antrim
Posts: 1013

1795033
'The only reason i voted for enda kennys party at last election'

Quick..... stop the presses!!
________________________
In fairness Royaldunne has always struck me as a man of tremendous principle, I mean he has now stated that he won't vote for Enda because he wasn't true to his word on the Irish language, never mind water charges, government corruption, etc.


Yeah Brend so much so that id say hes a full blown comrade of Enda!

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 02/10/2015 15:25:39    1795228

It is well known that politicians in Republic would say or do anything to get elected. The fact the 'unification'is never an issue at any election is telling of the mindset of people in the Republic. They have no interest in it. They may pay some lip service to the idea but in reality they just dont want the hassle that NI would bring

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4624 - 02/10/2015 18:20:59    1795274

bad.monkey
County: USA
It is well known that politicians in Republic would say or do anything to get elected. The fact the 'unification'is never an issue at any election is telling of the mindset of people in the Republic. They have no interest in it. They may pay some lip service to the idea but in reality they just dont want the hassle that NI would bring

As opposed to politicians everywhere else?
Listen, if you have issues with northern Nationalists or the GAA, or hate the idea of Irish unification, fair enough, those are your opinions, your issues. But please don't express opinions on behalf of the entire country (especially based on straw man arguments), or tell us what our 'mindset' is.

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 02/10/2015 18:38:16    1795279

Redandblack30.
TO UPHOLD A SENSE OF TRADITION AND NATIONAL PRIDE THAT THE OTHER TRADITION HAS SOUGHT TO ERADICATE
Very well posted and to me that is why we keep our playing of the National Anthem and of flying the tricolour at GAA games
Fair play RAB30 you have hit the nail on the head And as regards the AOH ( ancient order of Hibernians) I used to go to marches in Donegal before I emigrated. Last one I was at was in Derry City around four years ago. Let me tell you lots of GAA members went and still go to AOH demonstrations. So a lot of people are members of both organisations. As a matter of fact the AOH is still strong in Scotland especially Glasgow.
Spiritof91
As you state a good few GAA clubs in Down( and probably Antrim) were hounded out of existance by extreme elements of the Unionist community. Now this is something that no club in the 26 counties ever experienced and indeed no club anywhere should experience it. So people from the 26 counties should stop and think for a minute and take in what most of the Six County posters are saying. And why most of them oppose such an idea as stated by J Burns. Do people in the 26 not realise what the Tricolour/ Irish national anthem means to most of the Nationalists people in the Six counties Plus the GAA is the one thing that unites them with the rest of Ireland
HTAEM
As regards your post about the flag/ anthem being only around 100years old , do you not think we should respect the people ( our forefathers) who made it possible for us to have a flag / National anthem. The same applies to the people who founded the GAA So for me generation after generation of Irish people have kept the games alive , the tradition of flying the flag at GAA grounds, playing the national Antrim at games has been going on for years and years and that should not change.
How about the Unionist community coming out with a statement saying whether the want to participate or would like to join GAA clubs. I don't think that will happen.
As regards the Tyrone poster and Protestants playing in the Republic , I don't think there are many playing GAA games in Donegal and I can't recall any playing for the county.
Now Donegal would have the biggest population of Protestants in the 26 counties.

SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts: 1427 - 02/10/2015 18:40:10    1795280

Odd post Marlon i clearly didnt express an opinion just pointed out that unification is never an issue at elections in ROI or debates between candidates. Its hardly a strawman argument to deduce it is not an important issue for people in ROI. At best people are apathetic but in reality people just do not want the hassle it would bring

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4624 - 02/10/2015 19:04:32    1795287

bad.monkey
County: USA
Odd post Marlon i clearly didnt express an opinion just pointed out that unification is never an issue at elections in ROI or debates between candidates. Its hardly a strawman argument to deduce it is not an important issue for people in ROI. At best people are apathetic but in reality people just do not want the hassle it would bring

I feel you're being a little disingenuous when you claim to not express an opinion. I think you are, you're just laundering it via a claim of public opinion. And in fairness, you've expressed related sentiments on similar threads in the past.
As for the straw manliness of the argument, what would be a better term? Rhetorical fabrication? Maybe. Has unification ever been an option during an election? Has something happened recently that would make it actionable? How much was abortion debated in the last election? Topics debated depend more on the capacity of the players involved, not so much on what people want. Have you ever sat through a political debate, and at the end thought 'I'm now fulfilled, they've debated everything that's near and dear to me, the country's in good hands....'? I have not

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 02/10/2015 19:32:30    1795296

I think that if you are prepared to accept partition (I don't), as most people in the Republic do, then you are a "de facto" unionist.

To me the ruling, pro-treaty, Fine Gael party have always been pretty much openly a Unionist in their outlook. Despite playing some occasional lip service to the glorious theoretical ideal of a United Ireland, everything about them, as particularly evidenced by the pronouncements of recent leader John Bruton , has been pro-partition/unionist in my view.

Fina Fail, which started as a genuinely Republican/Nationaist Party gradually replaced this ideology with Greed and Corruption and, as the decades after partition wore on, they became more and more politically bankrupt. In the absence of any "raison d'etre" other than being "Cute Hoors" they in fact ended up bankrupting the entire country.

As for Labour, the Greens etc, I couldn't tell you their stance on partition which means in fact nobody in or voting for those parties cares.

As an earlier poster mentioned, the border is increasingly a non-election issue as the vast majority people actually support it. It's a fact!

So I think it is very true to say that there are many "Unionists" already in the GAA, even if there are very few Northern Protestants in it.

spiritof1991 (Down) - Posts: 693 - 02/10/2015 20:16:14    1795306

I am all for any nationality, colour, creed or religion playing GAA and no-one is stopping them. The GAA has its rules and traditions and playing the national anthem prior to games and flying the tricolor is part of tradition. There are some in Ireland that would love to wipe all tradition from the country never mind the sport. Plenty has been done withing GAA circles for inclusion in the past 15 years and we have welcomed non-irish and non-catholics to play our games and they have in fair numbers.

If someone wants to play our games then please come along and do so but don't be coming into an organisation that has been in existence for over 130 years and expect traditions to be changed. Take us as we are or don't take us at all.

Tir Conaill Abu (Donegal) - Posts: 1671 - 02/10/2015 20:20:44    1795307

Bad monkey, it is a unfortunately true argument that you put forward, and been what i would view as a Irish nationalist (not republican) it saddened me that you are probably right. Lets be honest half the people wont pay a very small amount (taking in grant etc) for water. The fact is that unification would cost a additional 100 euro for every man woman and child in the entire country. The flag would be changed (to probably the green with harp) the anthem would have to be changed, things like the angelus would be gone, more than likely we would have to rejoin the commonwealth, and anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional. Add the monitory facts, the no more going to Enniskillen, Newry etc for the Christmas shopping. Now while that seems petty its a deal to some people, would we have to allow pro choice clinics (and i not taking a side one way or the other, they pay water charges in north so that would help, the changing from sterling to the euro, and taking another 1m + people into the single currency. The logistics of this makes the majority in the republic indifferent to unification, and if a vote should happen it wouldn't be a cert to pass in 26 counties, and no name calling of west Brits , or partioniats will make one iota of difference. That maybe hard for ulster gaels to comprehend but the Celtic tiger left one lasting mark in this country, money means more.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 02/10/2015 20:53:10    1795315