county colours are used as a differentiation of a different kind and cannot be used in a similar tone as national flags/anthems.

Why?

both effectively represent a block of land.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 30/09/2015 13:09:55    1794201

Redhanddefender they are welcome to play if they respect the anthem
and give respect to the flag which they are represented on!!!

The reality is they dont want to play as they hate anything Irish they
just want to see the Irishness of the GAA watered down.While not
the Catholic version of the Orange Order the GAA and Irish Nationalism
are interlinked.

The flag and anthem should therefore remain . Things are fine as they
are.No need to change to appease Unionists who hate Irishness and
West Brits who have no pride in this country .

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1618 - 30/09/2015 13:32:00    1794220

REDANDBLACK30
+1

Finsceal (None) - Posts: 559 - 30/09/2015 13:43:11    1794227

Ormond Kevin Lynch's in Derry is named after a man who starved
himself to death to free the six counties for foreign occupation.
To endure such suffering to achieve a goal of freedom denied
him by the people you want to appease.

He was a freedom fighter.He was not a criminal as you would
describe him.Why shouldn't he be honoured???It is up to
people in that area what they call their own clubs.Sam Maguire
was an IRB assassin.Do you want to change the name of the
Cup????

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1618 - 30/09/2015 13:47:33    1794230

Ah but the IRB was the precursor to the good oul IRA R&B

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 30/09/2015 13:56:45    1794232

Duckula,

Is there any room left on the moral high ground??

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 30/09/2015 13:57:43    1794233

Cheers Finsceal its amazing to me that some people are prepared to
dilute our Irish identity to appease a community that hates the GAA
and the Nationalist community.

The GAA is a uniquely Irish sport.It can't sell out like rugby has.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1618 - 30/09/2015 13:59:04    1794235

Yeah Bumpernut Revisionism!!!!

The IRA of the early 20th Century fought a war against the British
establishment the same as the IRA in 1970s and 1980s did.

If they hadnt they wouldn't have achieved independence for
26 counties as the British establishment was wary even to
give Ireland Home Rule.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1618 - 30/09/2015 14:09:50    1794241

REDANDBLACK30
County: Down
Posts: 923

...its amazing to me that some people are prepared to
dilute our Irish identity to appease a community that hates the GAA
and the Nationalist community.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As myself a couple of other pointed out earlier, your assertion that 'unionists' hate the GAA and Nationalist community is completely untrue. I accept that the like of Campbell, Foster and their ilk are never going to accept/enjoy our games, but I don't believe that they are the people to whom Burns is reaching out.

Firstly, there are many unionists in the north of ireland, and a lot of them go to GAA matches at present. These are typically catholics who, were there a vote on the border today, would vote with their pockets and elect to remain part of the UK. While many wouldn't admit it openly, there are a lot of people in this category.

Secondly, and this is the group that Burns is talking about, there is a huge number protestant unionists who could be best described as 'middle-of-the-road'. They aren't nationalist haters, and they already have an interest in the GAA, some through participation but most through television only. I'd be very much in favour of making it as easy as possible for these people to become active members, and that includes diluting the nationalist paraphernalia that is omnipresent in our sport. I accept that such trappings were important 130 years ago, but I don't see them as critical to the Association in the 21st Century. If removing them means that this group of people face less crises of conscience or hassle from their neighbours/relatives, then I'd feel it very worthwhile.

And to those who will talk about preserving our heritage, well what better way to do that by increasing the numbers playing our national games? Surely, for example, improving the standard of hurling in Ulster over time (by increasing the number or protestants playing the sport) is much better for the future of game than having a flag flying outside the clubhouse.

Thomas Clarke (Tyrone) - Posts: 1002 - 30/09/2015 14:18:25    1794249

Thomas Clarke

Interesting post, but given what I know about the North, removing flags and anthems will do one thing. What then? Playing hurling without a hurley? Because i think that is the biggest symbol of all in the GAA, the hurley.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 30/09/2015 14:24:33    1794257

Thomas Clarke - You said some protestant unionist participate in the GAA, could you put a number on that partipation, it needs only to be approximate.

fainleog (Limerick) - Posts: 598 - 30/09/2015 14:34:09    1794262

I think I'm comfortable enough with my Irishness, not to get upset when someone bemoans a piece of cloth (A flag), or a song (A national Anthem). I will take umbrage however, with being called "A West Brit".

I'm not sure I'm OK with the reference to being British as an insult. The thinly veiled contempt for our neighbours that this phrase invokes, reeks of an insecurity complex. It is not a crime, nor is it an insult to be called British. It simply feeds this Us Versus Them attitude that has done far more harm to the development of Ireland than it has ever done for it's good. People who model themselves on not being British (and there have been more than a few in places of power in our history), really need to rethink their attitude, and start focusing more on what is is to be Irish, rather than what it isn't.

Gaelic Football and Hurling are our sports - but they are just that, sports. They should transcend arbitrary notions of identity, and exclusionary practices, and instead serve as an example of what is good about Ireland and being Irish. If the GAA show progressive thinking, and promote our games in an inclusive mindset - we really can't loose. The harder you try to bridge a gap, the more foolish those who oppose change look.

History and Evolution teach us one important point. Those who can adapt - flourish, those who can't or won't - go the way of the dinosaur.

On a final, and more tongue-in-cheek note, it is a massive irony to be insulted by the phrase "West Brit", by someone who is an "Actual Brit".

Jaden (Dublin) - Posts: 139 - 30/09/2015 14:35:09    1794265

Ormondbannerman - that appalling comment shows how little you actually know about GAA clubs in the North and those of us who have been involved in the last 40 years. Sad indeed.

Tim_Burr (Down) - Posts: 460 - 30/09/2015 14:35:27    1794266

I'm a bit late to the party on this topic. I'd be willing to "consider" our (the GAA's) use of the anthem & tricolour if there was to be tangible progress with the Unionist community in terms of cross-community participation & acceptance of our games. As for the anthem, could we still have it & maybe Ireland's Call before big matches? That seems to work in the rugby home internationals. I sometimes wonder if Unionist people identify themselves as Tyrone or Derry countymen in the same way as the Nationalists do & if they could ever come to see their respective county hurling & football teams as being representative of them too.

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 30/09/2015 14:45:38    1794272

fainleog
County: Limerick
Posts: 212

Thomas Clarke - You said some protestant unionist participate in the GAA, could you put a number on that partipation, it needs only to be approximate.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Obviously not, same as I can't off the top of my head put a number on catholic nationalist participants. But there are some, we have them in my own club at underage, and have previously had several at senior level. I know a much greater number who enjoy the games, but don't play or get involved, and I think that is a shame.

Slayer, your point about the removing the hurly is a silly one, and you aren't comparing like with like. As you say, the hurly may well be the unofficial symbol of the GAA, and obviously nobody reasonable would ever advocate removing it. That is very different to a flag and an anthem, both of which are political emblems that are used by the association but, let's be honest, not essential to the actual playing of our games.

Thomas Clarke (Tyrone) - Posts: 1002 - 30/09/2015 14:45:58    1794273

We are talking about sport, albeit a particular form of sport - Gaelic Football and hurling. Could some poster explain how playing the national anthem or flying the tri-colour contributes to improving the sport, enhances it's enjoyment or increases it's popularity. At all games that I go to, the crowd show their impatience for the anthem to be over by drowning out the final part of it with shouting and cheering, not for the anthem but for their team.

neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 30/09/2015 14:52:09    1794279

REDANDBLACK30

I think you take the whole national pride thing a bit too serious, don't forget that we're all only from where we're from because our parents got it on in a certain part of the world, nobody chose their country of birth or race.

Ps, the rugby team is an example of how to behave and I've always found it hilarious when nationalists complain about a United Ireland rugby team, when they're supposed to be all for a United Ireland, it's a highly contradictory position :-)

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 30/09/2015 14:52:32    1794280

Gaelic Football and Hurling are our sports - but they are just that, sports. They should transcend arbitrary notions of identity, and exclusionary practices, and instead serve as an example of what is good about Ireland and being Irish.

Interesting comment, but put it to the test.

In countries outside of Ireland, walk along with a hurley. People who see the hurley, what will they say?

I've done this in the USA, Taiwan, Europe. The majority of references were to 'that crazy Irish sport'. When Sky Sports began broadcasting hurling, twitter exploded with many tweets including the word 'Irish'. Hurling especially is something tied to Irish Identity.

Now, do the same in a Loyalist part of Northern Ireland. What additional words are added to the descriptions?

Being inclusive is a two way process and I'd prefer to see Gaelic games being accepted more by other communities before any flags or anthems are altered.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 30/09/2015 14:55:52    1794282

At all games that I go to, the crowd show their impatience for the anthem to be over by drowning out the final part of it with shouting and cheering, not for the anthem but for their team.

Impatience, or nerves?

For 25 years I thought the last words of the Anthem were 'cmon Limerick'. God taking away the anthem from a Munster Championship game really would be horrendous.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 30/09/2015 14:58:09    1794285

I agree with the rugby team being a United Ireland team with the Irish
National anthem.

You are missing the point Htaem.I just dont want Unionists to be
allowed to differentiate themselves because if they are allowed to
then they will never see sense and be reconciled with Irish Nationalists.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1618 - 30/09/2015 15:01:58    1794286