royaldunne
County: Meath
Posts: 8239

1789154
As your management said you will NEVER win anything from division 2.
The only thing i will ever agree with him on.

"The Only thing I will ever agree with him on" - You speaking about Mickey Harte.

What a statement!! Mickey Harte is a well liked and respected person, and Im sure there are many things he thinks that you might agree with him on.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 18/09/2015 20:41:43    1789158

Sam the key word you missed was 'consistently'. Donegal of course have had great results and success in the past 4 years, but it is only Mayo who have been consistently there every year with Kerry & Dublin,
All this talk about teams being unable to peak for 4 months is very questionable as well. We are told Dublin only need to peak for late August - last year they played Derry in the league final at the end of April, 3 weeks before Derrys opening championship game against Donegal. Yet they absolutely destroyed Derry with pace and power. As Derry only lost to Donegal by 1 goal 3 weeks later its fair to assume they were close to peak fitness, yet were far behind Dublin. All intercounty teams are training from January or earlier, are people really saying that Kerry and Dublin are doing 7 months of pre-season work and are not properly fit until August? When did Donegal actually peak this year, when they were struggling to beat a poor Derry side in June?
Worth noting as well that it is an all-Munster minor final on Sunday!

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 18/09/2015 20:42:50    1789159

Whatever about the merits of a long run in ulster, Tyrone are a step behind Donegal which 4 championship defeats in a row clearly show, despite what some might attempt to convey!

Donegal_abroad (Donegal) - Posts: 1321 - 18/09/2015 20:55:42    1789163

Soma
I still say that either Kerry or Dublin don't have to peak as early as say Donegal /Tyrone or indeed any team in Ulster. Just take Monaghan in the first round v Cavan, struggled for long periods before winning. I know as a Donegal supporter it would be great if we were playing teams like Carlow / Wexford//Louth or Clare/Tipp/Waterford or Limerick and then be in the final or at least semi final of your provincial championship Cork are ever so unreliable in Munster so no wonder Kerry makes the quarter finals almost every year without being tested. I know Cork beat them now and again but Cork are so un reliable.
Back to Mayo and consistently well I think Donegal were near enough as consistent and at least won an All Ireland That's why over the last five years I'd have Mayo as fourth of the four teams Dublin Kerry Donegal Mayo
I quite well know it's a all Munster final -must send best wishes to Charlie mcGeever (Donegal) and the Tipperary team Hopefully first Donegal man to manage an All Ireland winning team
Hopefully next year we might see an All Ulster senior final and an all Ulster minor final That would be great for football

SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts: 1427 - 18/09/2015 21:16:47    1789176

When did Donegal actually peak this year, when they were struggling to beat a poor Derry side in June?

did you not watch the game before against Armagh? or the one before that against Tyrone? they looked very sharp those days and that was May/early June Soma. Its amazing how some people can rubbish the difficulty of consistency against top teams. Top English soccer teams (who are 'professional' and their players don't have a day job to worry about) go through a tough run of fixtures and say things like 'we'll be happy with 3 wins out of 4' etc and they have all the help they need but still concede that perfection in consistency is nearly impossible.

My own county is by far the worst team in Ulster and we deserve to start the championship in the preliminary round every year until that changes. League standings should determine the seedings for the draw, it would add more purpose and reward to an otherwise dull competition

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2388 - 18/09/2015 21:24:35    1789181

The Sam Maguire is the trophy every team wants to win, The other pieces of silverware are mere awards along the route. Unfortunatly in most cases those who set out to settle for an Ulster title dont seem to get much further due to the set up of the Ulster championship. Monaghan played 3 games to win it. the teams were Cavan, Fermanagh and Donegal. Tyrone were knocked out by a strong Donegal team in May. They regrouped and headed the back door and turned up in Croke park in great shape in late August. So that would tell you its the way to go. through the back door.

border Gael (Monaghan) - Posts: 894 - 18/09/2015 21:28:16    1789183

I saw the games alright Saffron - they beat a Tyrone side by 1 point that most people would agree was a far poorer outfit than the Tyrone team that showed up in Croke Park, and they easily beat an Armagh side that put in one of the worst performances of the entire championship. In truth Donegal just never reached the heights this year. Its interesting that in the hurling they are looking at ways of helping the Munster champions because it is considered unfair that they are playing opponents in the semi-final who have played more games and are much sharper - in the football Kerrys easier passage to a semi-final is considered by some as the reason they win so many All-Irelands! Sam has been won through the back door more times by Munster teams than by Ulster teams as well by the way.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 18/09/2015 21:56:05    1789194

border Gael that's seems to demote your Ulster success and I wonder how your county team feel about such a smear on their success?

Up4it. (Tyrone) - Posts: 198 - 18/09/2015 21:56:33    1789195

Soma both Donegal and Tyrone came out all guns blazing in May and the intensity in that game wasn't matched by any fixture until the Munster football final...which was July. You decide to highlight Armagh's poor performance but the truth is Donegal were too sharp and too quick for them and when they built a lead like that they know how to close it out.

As for the Munster hurling championship, a team can win it after playing only two games, its hardly like starting Ulster from the prelims in football. The same 5 week lay off doesn't seem to ever hinder Kilkenny and they are rarely put through an intense Leinster championship game previous to that. They are another team who dont have to peak until August. Usually the Cats have too much about them for most teams in hurling but in 2013 they went through an unusual pattern of fixtures for them which seen them in a battle with Tipp and then Waterford in quick succession, and what happened to them the following week against Cork? They were knocked out by a team they would usually steam roll over...interesting!

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2388 - 19/09/2015 13:09:21    1789261

Saffron
As for the Munster hurling championship, a team can win it after playing only two games, its hardly like starting Ulster from the prelims in football.
I think you are missing the point I am trying to make here - we are being told the Munster champions are struggling in hurling because they are undercooked when they get to Croke Park and play battle-hardened sides, but the Munster champions in football are winning so many All-Irelands because they are get there untested and play against teams who are tired from a more difficult run. Like you say, Kilkenny have shown that being under-cooked is no problem for them, and I am very confident that if Kerry or Dublin played in Ulster fatigue would not be an issue for them either. The reality is they have their success because they produce the best hurlers and footballers. When Tyrone had an excellent side they won 3 All-Irelands in 6 years - neither the current Tyrone team or Donegal are anywhere near as good as that side and so are having much less success. How long do you think it is realistic for a side to peak for? Do you think Dublin or Kerry are fitter now than they were in June?

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 19/09/2015 14:25:27    1789275

your maybe missing my point Soma, Kilkenny take the 5 week lay off in their stride each year but when they had a tough run of fixtures when they had to be on point consistently in 2013 they were caught out. Dublin and Kerry walk through their provinces because most teams they play haven't a notion how to defend and they can kill teams off on autopilot because of their superior talent. If they were in Ulster from the preliminary round and played 4 teams who know how to defend and make teams work for every score there would be no cruise control and even if they did get through it, would the legs be as fresh or the minds as clear as strolling through Leinster or Munster were you can rest players and rotate the team? I'm not so sure.

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2388 - 19/09/2015 15:11:38    1789281

In 2013 Kilkenny drew with Dublin in Leinster and lost the replay. The fact Kilkenny lost a replay, something they almost never do, and to a relatively ordinary Dublin team, tells you that they were not right in 2013 for some reason. I would say the reason they didn't win the All-Ireland that year was because they were playing poorly, not because they were playing often.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 19/09/2015 15:23:41    1789284

Since the introduction of the back door system, Armagh, Tyrone and Donegal are the only teams outside of the big two of Kerry and Dublin who have won all Irelands through winning their province. No connacht team has done it, and only kerry from Munster and Dublin from Leinster have done it. Three Ulster teams have achieved it so from that point of view playing in Ulster is statistically an advantage.
I would suggest saffronDon that the reason so many other Ulster teams have struggled on the all ireland stage is because theyre simply not good enough, and whinging and moaning about being in a competitive province is just an excuse.
If plying your trade in a small province is such an advantage why arent Galway, Mayo and Cork winning all ireland titles regularly?
Simple, theyre not good enough

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 19/09/2015 15:33:16    1789287

who said anything about winning AI's Jon? My point is really quite simple, a team is in better shape if it aims to peak in August/September than it would be having to peak consistently all summer long. I don't know better than you or anyone else whether Donegal would win an AI with a similar route to Kerry or Mayo but you can't seriously suggest that there is a level playing field from the get go in the AI championship. When Donegal are gearing up for Tyrone and Galway are planning a city break in New York. I wouldn't go on about whinging either if I were you, you were quite sore on here the night of the hurling final. Hope Monday morning wasn't too rough for ye ;-)

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2388 - 19/09/2015 16:16:01    1789290

A few of the three time AI winning Tyrone players were on newstalk a few weeks back . They spoke about why they are not playing inter county anymore : they all claimed that the wear and tear of Ulster had a bigger impact on their bodies and that it's easier for Kerry players .

Dublin and Kerry do peak for August / September . Anyone who doesn't think parking isn't an issue clearly doesn't play football : simple as .

Dublin can win league in May because they have a massive squad and superb resources .

Donegal et al pick up injuries and have to play their full deck all the time .

Ulster had 4 teams every year in D1. They might not win Sam but as a whole it's the best .

TheRightStuff (Donegal) - Posts: 1688 - 19/09/2015 16:46:19    1789301

Just saying that I think this stuff about soft all Irelands for Kerry is unfair. Mayo dont have to peak until august, where are their all Irelands? We in galway only have mayo to contend with, where are our all irelands? I would like to see a champions league style format brought in, but Id bet money that the Kingdom and the Dubs would thrive in that set up too.
By the way,thats the second time youve talked about me being drunk/hungover after the hurling final. Im actually teetotal (not that its any of your business) and my post on the night of the final was straight from the heart. Its sad for you that when a man gets a bit emotional about something that you assume that alcohol had to have something to do with it.

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 19/09/2015 16:50:05    1789304

well its a mystery how Mayo haven't won an AI but they can't blame it on fatigue or jadedness that's for sure, more down to poor tactics imo. Galway are too naive at the back and any team with enough scoring forwards usually walk over them im afraid. If a champions league format was brought in you can bet that Kerry or Dublin would not have a typical championship preparation. Even Fermanagh who would be considered a weaker Ulster team (at least at the start of the year) gave Dublin something to think about that they didn't get in Leinster. Hats off if your teetotal Jon. I guess most people weren't surprised that Kilkenny beat Galway so your rant seemed away of the mark. Forgive me if I put it down to a few too many jars but it wouldn't be unusual for many on AI final day at that time of the evening. Btw I only brought it up the second time because you said i was whinging and words from the heart or not so were you.

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2388 - 19/09/2015 17:22:02    1789309

Naive? fatigue? Nope. Theyre excuses man.
Were not good enough. End of. (although Mayo have been so close they might have won it in 2013).
Back in the old system Ulster teams had a 4 or 5 week break between the Ulster final and the all Ireland semi, which removed any tiredness they may have felt, and if anything their record was worse back then.
id love for Galway to play in ulster for a few years. Might toughen us up a bit.

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 19/09/2015 17:33:11    1789314

I would like to say though that i completely agree with Brian McGuigan when he said that players up in Ulster tend to suffer more from long term injuries etc in later life as a result of their heavier workload.
I dont think that the extra games are necessarily an excuse for not winning an all Ireland, as teams are extremely fit nowadays, but they do increase the risk of injury, which I admit is totally unfair on Ulster players.

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 19/09/2015 18:55:57    1789331

JONCARTER
Harder hitting in games I would say can cause a lot of injuries. That's the way it is in Ulster, year in year out dog eat dog. Look at Meath v Westmeath this year in Leinster -- very little contact with players getting plenty of room to manoeuvre. Same in drawn Munster final--- I did not think it was very physical--- same last year (2014 Munster final) very little hard hitting. But if you are a top class footballer in Ulster you will get dogs abuse( ask M Murphy B CoulterC McManus P Bradley) plenty of big hits ( think of the hits Gooch v Tyrone in the semi alough one could have been a red card. So Ulster is tough and you have to be ready for any team come the first round as they are mostly all banana skins. But I'd rather have it than playing and hammering the likes of Waterford Clare Tipp Limerick Carlow WexfordWicklow Laois Louth LeitrimSligo
What you can be sure of is that Dublin / Kerry will continue to dominate in their provinces but there are no guarantees that Donegal or Tyrone will dominate Ulster over the next few years.
And if both Kerry / Dublin were to play in Ulster you can be sure they would get beat far more oftener than is the case today with the teams they play in Munster/ Leinster

SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts: 1427 - 19/09/2015 20:21:33    1789355