Aah the big difference between Tyrone 7 years ago is they had a team capable of winning the All Ireland, full of great players and it suited them to build momentium. Tyrone should be very happy with an Ulster title because there will be no Sam in the near future. They have pride back in the jersey but they simply have not good enough forwards to challenge. Within Ulster they are amongst a cluster of average teams and are not in a position to choose if they go for the Ulster title or not. No team in Ulster probably apart from Monaghan who appear to have this huge respect for them would fear Tyrone.

sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 999 - 26/08/2015 14:21:47    1776574

Geaney will clean ocarroll this weekend

HughHunt24 (Cork) - Posts: 841 - 16/09/2015 17:18:35    1788294

sam1884
County: UK
Posts: 151

1776574


Aah the big difference between Tyrone 7 years ago is they had a team capable of winning the All Ireland, full of great players and it suited them to build momentium. Tyrone should be very happy with an Ulster title because there will be no Sam in the near future. They have pride back in the jersey but they simply have not good enough forwards to challenge. Within Ulster they are amongst a cluster of average teams and are not in a position to choose if they go for the Ulster title or not. No team in Ulster probably apart from Monaghan who appear to have this huge respect for them would fear Tyrone.

Tyrone won Ulster in 2009 and 2010, Donegal beat Tyrone in 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2015 and Monaghan beat them in 2014. Almost all of those games they have lost since 2010 have been tight close games, in which they could easily have won.

That would make them above average in my opinion, as Donegal and Monaghan have been Ulsters best two sides in recent years.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 16/09/2015 21:18:03    1788427

I think it depends on the age profile and experience of your team. If you're a county starved of success with a relatively low age profile then winning an Ulster is vital in bringing a team on. If you look at us in 2011, we had a good group of players who had come up short in a few Ulster finals. That win showed them they could win major honours and the monkey was off the back somewhat. It gave them the springboard to push on and do what they did, culminating in the 2012 AI win.

But having won their Ulster medals and aged together, I would suggest that maybe we're better off exiting Ulster early and taking the scenic route next year. In Ukster, no matter who you play, you're nearly having to peak 3, if not 4 times across 8-10 weeks. In contrast, a few favourable draws in the qualifiers allows you to rest some of the elder statesmen and tailor training along nicely, looking towards the August bank holiday if all goes to plan. By that point your Laceys, Gallaghers, McFaddens for example should be nearing peak shape and who knows what can happen then!

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9163 - 17/09/2015 09:47:27    1788471

@DoireCityFC - I take it you're not a Dub fan anymore but a Derry fan? Getting back to the post - agree with Tyrone poster - to win Ulster you have to peak early where the other provinces the Kerry's/Corks, Dubs and Mayos stroll through. I believe Donegal could have won more AI's only they had to peak early to play Tyrone past few seasons. Ergo yes probably best for the better Ulster teams get beat early.

IrishGael3 (USA) - Posts: 1092 - 17/09/2015 11:38:48    1788537

Here is a massive reason to win ulster. Because you have had a good season if you do.

Ask anyone from monaghan and they will agree, most teams dont win sam. 3 provincial winners every year dont. So if you win it, it is a good year, at least you can look back at the summer with a degree of satisfaction.

I think that there is some grounds for going in the back door, but you would be better off going in with a 13 day turn around. Any teams that have to go out within a week to play a well rested team, well lets just say that the rested team will have a great advantage. At least if you win ulster, you dont have to worry about fixture pile ups etc.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 17/09/2015 12:38:02    1788564

An All-Ireland is not a real All-Ireland if won via the back door. A Tuesday All-Ireland champion should be unbeaten!

FiorDunach (Down) - Posts: 72 - 17/09/2015 13:07:08    1788589

You win Ulster because its a challenge an achievement , you win it because every year theres others battling with every ounce to win it .Is it a help or a hindrance to further success that's a difficult one to call , certainly to do both you need a bigger squad than any of the Ulster teams have at their disposal at the moment .
I am in a dead province competiveness wise , were one of our biggest rivals [ meath ] supporters started a take Dublin out of Leinster campaign ,that's what were up against , I can say hand on heat I respect and envy the Ulster championship

Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 17/09/2015 13:20:38    1788594

I do believe Ulster has become a hindrance to counties with ambitions of AI success. Tyrone were lucky that they got a big test out of the way back in May against Donegal. They regrouped and had sufficient time to prepare for the qualifiers. Their qualifier opponents were of the calibre of teams that Dublin and Mayo would walk over in their respective provinces. Tyrone built momentum and confidence and by the time they met Monaghan who had been through a tougher Ulster circuit on route to the QF they knew their best 15 and looked far sharper than the team that beat them in Ulster the year before. Had Tyrone taken their goal chances against Kerry they could have been playing Dublin on Sunday on not many would have predicted that at the start of the year.

In contrast, Donegal had four battles behind them in quick succession before taking the runners up tag into a Galway fixture they scraped over the line in. By the time they played Mayo they looked worn out and the slickness in their play shown against Tyrone and Armagh in May and June was gone.

Any athlete will tell you the hardest part of competition is being consistent at the highest level. I wonder after this years championship how many serious teams in Ulster will see the point in going all out in Ulster, unless Ulster is as far as they set their targets...

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2388 - 17/09/2015 14:08:21    1788632

i dont think any of the ulster teams can win the all ireland yet maybe 3 years down the line maybe,so winning ulster would be in most counties ambitions for 2016.

93vintageyear (Derry) - Posts: 301 - 17/09/2015 14:53:35    1788660

I would still like to win it

cuchulainn35 (Armagh) - Posts: 1676 - 17/09/2015 16:14:37    1788697

I was sick after our display against Tyrone but now dust has settled remember Summer mainly for feeling at final whistle in Clones on Ulster Final day. We went 25 years without winning it so two in three years is not bad going. Remember come Sunday evening 31 counties will have suffered disappointment this Sumner but only 3 of those will have a trophy.

seanie08 (Monaghan) - Posts: 1803 - 17/09/2015 17:38:40    1788758

It's not winning the Ulster Championship that hinders All Ireland ambitions, It's the having to peak nearly 2 months before the Munster final takes place.

Having the few Ulster teams that are actually capable of challenging for the All Ireland, facing off against each other in a Preliminary Round in May is ridiculous, as this forces these teams ( This year Preliminary round of Donegal & Tyrone ) to peak much earlier than the likes of Dublin or Kerry.

Tyrone will have a right go at next years All Ireland title, Peter Harte, Mattie Donnelly and Tiernan McCann around the middle are exactly what Tyrone need, and I think they will go from strength to strength next year. They have a better choice of forwards than any other County in Ulster.

Donegal still have an exceptionally strong and experienced core of players, they could easily be top table challengers if they cut the dead weight and regain some of their pace and Intensity. Could be doing with another corner forward/full forward, but have enough to win Sam again.

Monaghan are still a tough proposition, but I think their All Ireland ship may have sailed for another while. They still have a strong core of players, but they need at least one more excellent forward.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 17/09/2015 21:26:03    1788822

I think its harder to win Ulster than going through the qualifiers. Donegal were a tired team when Mayo defeated them. Can't understand why council don't give teams adequate rest time going into games. Donegal only had 6 days after defeating Galway. 6 or 7 day turnaround is okay if its for both teams.

crikey (Australia) - Posts: 355 - 18/09/2015 09:05:15    1788853

Crikey the 7 day turnaround didn't affect Tyrone too badly when they came up against Monaghan. Using excuses like that or having to peak earlier than other sides just doesn't stack up - the 2 best teams in the country are in the All-Ireland final on Sunday and the only other team that can get near them consistently is Mayo. It is nothing to do with schedules or difficult draws, its all to do with the quality of footballers in these counties.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 18/09/2015 13:53:45    1789014

Soma
You are wrong about a few things in your post IMO
As regards peaking early, do you think would Dublin have to be at full peak to beat say either Louth, or Wexford or say Carlow? Would Kerry have to be at full peak to beat either Limerick or Clare or say Tipp in the first round of the Munster championship ? The same more or less applies to Mayo( well over the last four /five years) with maybe either Leitrim/Sligo /London or even New York to play before a Connaught final
Compare Donegal with having to play Tyrone in a preliminary with maybe three more hard games to win Ulster.
As regards Mayo being the only other team to get close to Dublin /Kerry---how many All Ireland's have they won lately?? When did they beat Kerry last in the championship?
Mayo have won no All Ireland over the last four years( 64 years in fact) and you must have missed last year's All Ireland semi final--Dublin v Donegal. Indeed last year's All Ireland final Donegal v Kerry was fairly close and without mistakes Donegal could have won.
Let me tell you something---over the last four years DONEGAL HAVE BEATEN DUBLIN KERRY MAYO
DUBLIN HAVE BEATEN DONEGAL MAYO KERRY
MAYO HAVE BEATEN DONEGAL AND DUBLIN
KERRY HAVE BEATEN DONEGAL AND MAYO
MAYO HAVE NOT BEATEN KERRY
KERRY HAVE NOT BEATEN DUBLIN
I'm talking about the years2011/2015 Dublin have two All Ireland's Kerry have one Donegal have one Mayo have none. So I thinks that proves that Mayo are not the only team that have got close to Dublin/ Kerry. I put Donegal in front of Mayo over the last four years---- Dublin the no one team so far , little to choose between Kerry / Donegal for second /third with Mayo fourth

SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts: 1427 - 18/09/2015 19:06:13    1789133

Draw n ulster should be seeded .... simples .... no way shul 2 of the top 8 teams In the country be meeting n a preliminary round of the ulster championship in may

rossy15 (Roscommon) - Posts: 620 - 18/09/2015 19:20:53    1789140

Soma
County: UK
Posts: 1132

1789014
Crikey the 7 day turnaround didn't affect Tyrone too badly when they came up against Monaghan. Using excuses like that or having to peak earlier than other sides just doesn't stack up - the 2 best teams in the country are in the All-Ireland final on Sunday and the only other team that can get near them consistently is Mayo. It is nothing to do with schedules or difficult draws, its all to do with the quality of footballers in these counties.

Tyrone were playing low tempo games against the likes of Tipperary and Sligo in the run up to Monaghan, and were fairly fresh going into that game. Tyrone always tend to do well against Monaghan anyway, so we all expected a tight enough game.

Your correct that the teams contesting any All Ireland final are considered the best 2 teams on that given year, but Incorrect about Mayo, as Donegal have been All Ireland finalists twice in the the past 4 years and thus one of Ireland's best two teams those years and fairly consistently a top side.

I don't think Kerry have better Quality footballers than Mayo, Donegal or possibly even Tyrone. Kerry have the financial backing of Kerry Group, an easy Provincial Championship, and the added mental strength that comes from years of winning. Peaking early does actually stack up when preparing a team to peak for a certain period, the shorter the period a team has to peak for, the easier it gear training towards that.

Donegal and Tyrone peaking for late May and hoping to be competing in Late September ( Both teams are Peaking for 4 months ), is definitely harder than Kerry having to peak for Late July til Late September ( 2 month peaking period ). It definitely has an Impact and can leave teams looking slightly fatigued in comparison to the opposition. I think the standard of opposition also contributes, like Donegal played some tight heavy games in Ulster, while Tyrone opened with a heavy game, but they then had a much lighter work load in the Qualifiers.

All these little things add up, and combined they can give a team an extra 5% - 10% in the All Ireland Series.

Shidoshi (Donegal) - Posts: 85 - 18/09/2015 20:10:11    1789150

rossy15
County: Roscommon
Posts: 69

1789140
Draw n ulster should be seeded .... simples .... no way shul 2 of the top 8 teams In the country be meeting n a preliminary round of the ulster championship in may

Well said

Shidoshi (Donegal) - Posts: 85 - 18/09/2015 20:14:00    1789151

As your management said you will NEVER win anything from division 2.
The only thing i will ever agree with him on.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 18/09/2015 20:28:13    1789154