An all ulster team is pie in the sky stuff and will/should never happen, not including Antrim anyway.

Its funny but ive yet to hear anyone suggest having an all Connaught team if we apply similar standards

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 27/08/2015 16:56:34    1777201

bumpernut
County: Antrim
An all ulster team is pie in the sky stuff and will/should never happen, not including Antrim anyway.
Its funny but ive yet to hear anyone suggest having an all Connaught team if we apply similar standards

What similar standards? An all Connacht team doesn't get suggested, because it would not have the same number of counties/players to draw on. From what I've heard/read, the All Ulster team suggested would not include any county in the Liam McCarthy tier. In Connacht, that would leave 4 counties, a smaller pool of players to pick from, I don't think people would regard that team as being able to be competitive at the top level. An All Ulster team, even without Antrim, would be viewed as having a potential player base to form a team that could compete at the top level.

The Ulster team suggestion isn't meant as a slight, its coming from people who don't want hurling to die out in Ulster, and want to see all players in Ulster, regardless of what county they come from, at least have a chance to play at the top level

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 27/08/2015 18:21:56    1777246

Antrim are a proud Hurling county so it is unlikely they would want to be part of an All Ulster project. All the other counties are football mad with small hurling communties in each. I think bringing the top players from each of these counties together and appointing a really top coaching set up and having the best facilities available in the province would do wonders for hurling. The counties can still put out indivdual teams to ensure as many as possible are given the opportunity to participate in an inter county competition. An Ulster team could provide great competition to Antrim and improve them as well.

sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 999 - 27/08/2015 20:52:24    1777294

I think the Ulster hurling idea is also pie in the sky stuff. I also do not think they would be in any way competitive. I would fancy Cork to maul them so you can imagine what Galway/KK/Tipp would do to them.

Bumpernut has made lots of good points. In theory there is no reason why the Antrim county team should not be competitive on their own. They have enough good clubs, they play enough hurling all year round so when they come together there is no reason why they should be much worse than KK. The fact that they are miles behind and the reasons for that are well documented. Antrim will hopefully sort that.

The other Ulster counties are prdominantly football oriented. Do the players get enough good club hurling? The reasons why Kerry are so good at football, KK are so good at hurling is that they play all the time- they focus on that game and they are brilliant at it..there might be an outstanding hurler in Donegal but for him to be any way competitive with kk/galway he needs to be playing hurling a lot - there needs to be an infrastructure in place where they hurl regularly-20+ club games a year..this is the background from which the top players come from..they play loads and loads of games at underage, they train loads..when this is in place everywhere, then in theory there is a chancde to be competitive

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 27/08/2015 21:59:45    1777319

Marlon_JD I agree 100%. Plenty of natural talent in the other 8 counties but not enough in each invividual team to make a difference

DoireCityFC (Derry) - Posts: 1580 - 28/08/2015 09:16:47    1777335

Oh and i think Marty O'Reilly would have to start after that 7-1 :)

DoireCityFC (Derry) - Posts: 1580 - 28/08/2015 09:17:54    1777336

What similar standards? An all Connacht team doesn't get suggested, because it would not have the same number of counties/players to draw on. From what I've heard/read, the All Ulster team suggested would not include any county in the Liam McCarthy tier. In Connacht, that would leave 4 counties, a smaller pool of players to pick from, I don't think people would regard that team as being able to be competitive at the top level. An All Ulster team, even without Antrim, would be viewed as having a potential player base to form a team that could compete at the top level.

The Ulster team suggestion isn't meant as a slight, its coming from people who don't want hurling to die out in Ulster, and want to see all players in Ulster, regardless of what county they come from, at least have a chance to play at the top level

Marlon I and im sure others do not see it as a slight, I do believe that those who push this idea including Donal Óg are doing so for all the right reasons iro Ulster Hurling. However, it is not practical logistically as has been pointed out before, asking someone from Burt or Lisbellaw to travel to Ballycastle or Portaferry for example for training on a week night isn't realistic.
It probably is possible if they are 100% committed but being realistic about it if those guys drive those distances and aren't getting anywhere near the team they'll drift away gradually and I couldn't blame them.
As for my all Connacht team suggestion the reason I mention that is that the 4 remaining counties in Connacht are of similar standard to 5/6 counties in Ulster after you take out Antrim, Down ,Derry, so why has it not been suggested to try to sort out hurling in the rest of Connaught?
Getting back to my own county as I said previously the ability is here, without doubt, however there a multitude of reasons for it not being harnessed properly, 2 major elements from a players perspective is 100% commitment and self belief, we also need a new vibrant fresh county board, we need the Ulster Council to get their fingers out and promote hurling properly, we need Casement built soon for the good of Belfast hurling and Belfast GAA in general and we need Central Council to seriously promote the game in Ulster and the other weaker counties through proper funding and to run National coaching courses for club coaches. I believe if there is a genuine will and clear program/pathway particularly with regards to the coaching element to improve those counties from Christy Ring down that the clubs and their members/coaches will buy into it no problem. If they continue to pretend, because lets be honest that is what they do, and pay lip service then our grandkids will be having the same discussion in 50 years time.

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 28/08/2015 10:46:52    1777377

The Ulster team suggestion isn't meant as a slight, its coming from people who don't want hurling to die out in Ulster, and want to see all players in Ulster, regardless of what county they come from, at least have a chance to play at the top level

Marlon, I know you don't mean to be condescending, but the lads at the top table only pay lip service to hurling outside the elite 10 or so.

Example No 1; Sean Kelly ( A Kerry man) set up the Christy Ring, Nicky Rackard and so on and was a roaring success, finals played before the Liam McCarthy semi-finals in front of big crowds, something for hurlers from the lesser counties to aspire to. Then came 'hurling' man Nicky Brennan (Kilkenny) and he subsequently removed the Cristy Rings finals etc, etc, away from these days to allow the minors from the elite counties back in. He was subsequently replaced by another hurling man, Christy Cooney (Cork) who did absolutely nothing to stop the rot on his watch. Now the finals are played early in July to get them out of the way!

Example No 2; A HDC committee was set up, who were the members? All from the top counties, barring Sambo in the early days. What did they come up with to stop the rot, absolutely nothing. In fact they made it harder for teams in the Christy Ring to enter into the Liam McCarthy by making them play off against the bottom team in the round robin section of the Leinster championship.

Don't pat me on the back whilst you're driving your boot up my hole is an apt saying from the deepest parts of Ballycran for this.

bricktop (Down) - Posts: 2503 - 28/08/2015 10:50:14    1777380

'Marlon_JD I agree 100%. Plenty of natural talent in the other 8 counties but not enough in each invividual team to make a difference'

Have a look at the last 20 years or more of Ulster Railway Cup teams and tell me how many good hurlers from Fermanagh/Tyrone/Donegal/Monaghan and even Armagh made the team.

You will have 7 or 8 Antrim players with 2 or 3 each from Down, the subs will again be a similar ratio with one or 2 from the remaining counties so how will that improve the rest of the Ulster counties.

To me it smacks of giving up on Ulster Hurling because we aren't really that interested in it and this will do as a quick fix!

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 28/08/2015 10:54:14    1777381

Antrim down and derry are now all of very similar standards. No reason why a few Slaughtneil and portaferry lads wouldnt make the team. 5 city boys in the christy ring final aswell. It would give all ulster senior members something to aim for. we all know the railway cups are friendlies. If the lads knew they would get an AI QF they would go hard to try and cause and upset.

I think its a decent way forward. Other changes like westmeath joining were shot down.

DoireCityFC (Derry) - Posts: 1580 - 28/08/2015 11:08:43    1777397

DCFC,

Remember that there are only 2 or 3 Loughgiel boys hurling for Antrim currently. There are quite a few more who would improve Antrim and as a onsequence push them back above Down and Derry so that's not always gonna be the case. At least 5 or 6 of this proposed Ulster team would come from Loughgiel alone

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 28/08/2015 12:16:13    1777424

It could be done - IF there was a will. Appoint management team by December. Management should monitor all 8 counties in the league. Draw up a preliminary squad by the end of the league. Have a couple of sessions & get-togethers (say in Owenbeg) before the Meagher, Rackard & Ring Cups. Continue to monitor the squad & finalise after competition semi-finals in May. Begin preparations in earnest!

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 28/08/2015 13:01:18    1777456

keeper7 love it

only one way to see if it will work. hurling up here cant get much worse so why not. might actually get a decent crowd at a game and it would spark media interest which in turn would get more kids involved

DoireCityFC (Derry) - Posts: 1580 - 28/08/2015 13:11:58    1777462

Only problem would be our kit. the yellow and black might clash with the cats come september ;)

DoireCityFC (Derry) - Posts: 1580 - 28/08/2015 13:13:18    1777463

Owenbeg is 2 hours plus from the Ards peninsula, hardly central is it?

Bumpernut has hit on the problem indirectly, yes Loughgiel have a few very good hurlers, but their problem is that if they stick with the club hurling then they're a few hard but not impossible games away from an AI semi-final in february, so why would they put in the commitment needed earlier on to field for Ulster when some don't bother to put the effort in for Antrim currently?

Don't tell me it will be all about the manager as some have burned bridges with several Antrim managers so far, even the Tipp one who bent himself over double to accomodate one.

bricktop (Down) - Posts: 2503 - 28/08/2015 13:24:49    1777469

Not a fan of the idea at all - would prefer for HQ to invest in Ulster hurling akin to how they did with Dublin. Do that and see if there are improvements.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 28/08/2015 13:30:52    1777475

And the reason they concentrate on club success as you prob know Bricktop is they've a better chance of gaining an all Ireland medal with their club than they will with their county or Ulster if that were to materialise.
The sad thing is if PJ O'Mullan were to take on Antrim (after Loughgiel's championship exit this year)we could then have a scenario whereby quite a few Cushendall boys wont commit. Then we have boys refusing to play in an U21 all Ireland semi final supposedly because their club is playing championship this weekend. Why the County Board would fix these championship games this week given that these types of withdrawals have happened before is another issue.

You see lads its bonkers up here at times and prob not worth you all worrying about, getting an intercounty team out at all is an achievement in itself!

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 28/08/2015 14:00:37    1777494

could mix the training venues up. 1 week in down, then antrim, then derry etc

2 hours is alot but sure the west cork boys would have to do a similar journey to the city. Its only an extra 15 min to dungiven from portaferry than to say newry

DoireCityFC (Derry) - Posts: 1580 - 28/08/2015 14:02:53    1777498

keeper7
County: Longford
Posts: 2488

1777456
It could be done - IF there was a will. Appoint management team by December. Management should monitor all 8 counties in the league. Draw up a preliminary squad by the end of the league. Have a couple of sessions & get-togethers (say in Owenbeg) before the Meagher, Rackard & Ring Cups. Continue to monitor the squad & finalise after competition semi-finals in May. Begin preparations in earnest!

You are right. However, if there was a will all of those individual counties would promote hurling in more detail. That is more realistic but yet it is not even close to happening.

Ultimately when they get hammered and let's not fool anyone they would get utterly slaughtered by the likes of Cork/Wexford/Dublin never mind KK/Tipp/Galway, what would happen then - widen the net to include even more teams?

As it stands, Cork, Wexford, Dublin etc are struggling with KK/Galway and Tipp - if those three merged they would struggle big time to beat the All-Ireland finalists..

The idea to have an Ulster hurling team might be noble, the results would be detrimental - far from improve hurling standards and promote it, it would more likely kill it off completely

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 28/08/2015 14:16:57    1777510

I disagree, Benny. Would they be slaughtered any more than Antrim currently are? In fact if the thing was done right, fellas who previously were reluctant to commit to their county might be drawn in. This might in turn give the county squads a lift & quell some of the parochialism in existence. I'm sure they'd be pitted against the likes of Westmeath, Laois or Offaly first before you throw them in against Kilkenny anyway. This is a possible solution to the 'why no summer hurling for weaker counties?' question. And there's definitely an Ulster brand or identity already in existence.

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 28/08/2015 15:09:58    1777550