urkeyplucker
County: UK
Posts: 71

1768963
seanie_boy
County: Tyrone
Posts: 3294


Saint Darren hit the deck with record speed when Rory Kavanagh pressed an empty boot against him last year.You can see from the footage that he was about to grab his face but then realized it wouldn't work well as his balls are not there,then he proceeded to cup his groin area as he lay stricken on his knees.


I can't believe you typed that in the same paragraph you told Greengrass to "please stop making up your own "facts' to support your argument" It gave me a good laugh though, cheers for that
---------------------------------------------------------------------
My "facts" would be in Marty Duffys notebook.My interpretation of Hughes and Kavanagh moment is just my interpretation of it.Look at it again if you can.It certainly seems like his hands are going to his face,then are pulled down to groin area.Thats what it looks like to me.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 12/08/2015 16:56:11    1768975

The incidents, as The Hermit notes, are 'high profile' - and that's the point! Similar incidents by players from other teams tend not to be nearly so 'high profile'. No-one has ever said there is a 'conspiracy'.

What we do say, and it's pretty obvious, is that there is a media bias. If a Tyrone player commits an offence and a player from another team commits a similar offence, inevitably, the Tyrone player's offence will be more 'high profile'. This is down to Brolly, O'Rourke and Spillane et al focussing more on the sins of a Tyrone player. Read Kenny Archer's piece in today's Irish News:

"Twice Tyrone teams have played Tipperary this year. Twice Tipperary players have stamped on Tyrone opponents (only once earning a red card). How much outcry has there been about either of those incidents? So little that the first culprit, rather than being suspended, was actually awarded the GAA/GPA's official "player of the month" accolade for the following month. So much for fair play. Instead, the focus was on sledging. After the second match one Southern journalist wrote "Always Tyrone" in relation to a shoving match involving players from both sides - but not "Always Tipperary" when mentioning the stamping. There was more hypocrisy from one former Meath player on Twitter. He tweeted:

"I hope Kerry knock seven shades out of these Tyrone lads … that McCann lad needs a serious lesson given to him."

When challenged by several people about that obvious call for thuggery, he unconvincingly added that he only meant this in a "footballing sense". I think we all know what a former Meath player means by 'knocking seven shades out of' someone in a footballing sense. O'Rourke himself, now next door to being canonised, freely admits to punching opponents from behind if they were getting the better of him.

It's flawed logic to assume that 'the higher the profile, the greater the culpability', as The Hermit is attempting to contend. It only follows if the media - the one that creates the 'high profile' in the first place - is consistent and balanced in its approach.
And, of course, they're not. Two recent examples:

1. Watch Shields' dive - almost a carbon copy of McCann's:
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2015/0720/716074-rte-gaa-podcast-cork-kerry/

So how come no sanction for him? Well, primarily because not nearly so much was made of it and papers the next day didn't obsess about it and give it the headline coverage they would have done had it involved a Tyrone player.

You also wonder at the massive focus on a dive when no focus at all on off the ball assaults and punches in the same match. They're all on camera as well, but they're not highlighted by RTÉ, as unfortunately for their grubby little agenda, it wasn't the nasty Tyrone boys throwing the punches, so that isn't newsworthy.

2. Brolly's half-admiring excuse for a Kerry drag-down vs Kildare - just cf that with the Paisley-ite ranting for Cavanagh's similar offence against Monaghan a couple of years ago.

Surely there has to be some token attempt at consistency? Pathetic.

essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1141 - 12/08/2015 17:04:54    1768982

About 20% of GAA revenue comes from TV, mostly RTE.
Tyrone has stopped talking to RTE which impacts the quality of RTE's product.
Sunday Game carves out 5 minutes at the end of the show to provide a soap box for the RTE pundits to attack Tyrone.
Football pundits on RTE, who probably receive some reimbursement from RTE, attack Tyrone.
The GAA acts, probably breaking their own rules, to punish Tyrone...
No conflict of interest there in

liamoggordon (USA) - Posts: 13 - 12/08/2015 17:07:09    1768983

opa01 and Gotmilk....if you think Beggan and McCann did the same thing you either didn't watch either incident/the whole game or have a fundamental lack of understanding of the incidents. Beggan got a soft blow to the throat and made the most of it. The Cavanaghs did that for the entire game!! Are ye well??

McCann had his hair ruffled and took a dive to do one thing only and that was to deceive the officials.

seanfinn (Monaghan) - Posts: 360 - 12/08/2015 17:16:08    1768993

seanie_boy
County: Tyrone
Posts: 3297

1768932 Greengrass
County: Louth
Posts: 3859

1768918
Very simple Gotmilk . Tyrone are by a distance the worst for cynical play . Mind you Lundy should have been nailed for what he did in the club final . Remember as well that not only was McCann content to see Darren Hughes sent off, he was also prepared a few short minutes later to cynically haul down Drew Wylie and take a black card .
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greengrass you are entitled to your own opinion on here but please stop making up your own "facts' to support your argument.Darren Hughes was being sent to the line for his second bookable offense having just brought down Colm Cavanagh with a hard tackle.There was probably some verbals being exchanged by him and Mc Cann so Hughes decided to go toward Mc Cann and do what he did.Mc Cann off course acted like an eject then,and here we are now.Saint Darren hit the deck with record speed when Rory Kavanagh pressed an empty boot against him last year.You can see from the footage that he was about to grab his face but then realized it wouldn't work well as his balls are not there,then he proceeded to cup his groin area as he lay stricken on his knees.No suspension for Darren though.

I seem to remember Rory Kavanaghs boot being in the region of Darren Hughes' groin area in the incident you refer to. Last Saturday Hughes was sent off on a straight red as a result of a deeply cynical act by McCann who then compounded his despicable behaviour by deliberately hauling down Drew Wylie a few short minutes later and taking a black card Seanieboy your county has a serious problem. You have minor players prepared to taunt an opponent about the death of that players father. There is a poison at the heart of Tyrone football that needs to be extracted. Their serial cheating has to confronted and faced down. And before you start whinging about everyone else you are right. It is time to come down hard on all cynicism in all no counties. But make no mistake your county is the worst by a distance .

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 12/08/2015 17:36:07    1769012

Greengrass.........why then had Duffy already blown the whistle and stopped play?He can be clearly seen writing into his notebook before Hughes even touches Mc Cann and play has stopped.Why did Duffy blow the whistle?

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 12/08/2015 17:47:12    1769021

I don't believe you Greengrass.I think you are trying to dress up your contempt for Tyrone as being some sort of moral crusade against all forms of cynicism within the gaa.I'm not buying it though and I think you simply dislike Tyrone for reasons only you know yourself.There is something harsh in the tone of your posts plus the bare faced bias.When you say things like "Mc Canns was way worse" the bias becomes unhidden for all to see.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 12/08/2015 18:02:34    1769035

DUFFYS EYES

I made this point in another post. How could Duffy be writing in his notebook and see the Hughes McCann incident. Hughes was for the road and decided to stir it up a little bit before his departure. Is it normal to go around running your fingers through opponents' hair?

Of course McCann was very wrong to do what he did but as somebody else said he didn't kill anyone nor even stamp, knee or strike anyone. He only harmed himself really.

BIG SACKS (Tyrone) - Posts: 1681 - 12/08/2015 18:08:17    1769037

For a free. He then sent Hughes off on a straight red which Monaghan intend to appeal. You are ignoring the very serious issues relating to your own county. Are you happy that a Tyrone minor footballer was allegedly prepared to taunt an opponent about the death of his father. I use the word allegedly advisedly as I don't believe a young footballer would make it up.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 12/08/2015 18:35:47    1769054

Beggan got a soft blow to the throat and made the most of it.



Whats the difference Sean Finn? McCann got a blow to his hair and made the most of it. Both are trying to deceive the referee and officials.

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 12/08/2015 18:50:43    1769064

Mccann made himself look like a fool. And I do believe he should be punished but I would of thought a 1 match ban was sufficient. I'm sure there's no one that regrets that dive more than mccann himself. He's been subjected to national ridicule for the past week. 8 weeks is completely unfair. And why is there no repercussions for the ref who was standing right there.

And if this does stick (I think it has to be reduced) every player regardless of who they play for needs to get the same punishment mccann received. I agreed with everything whelan said on the SG but I do feel this is the gaa caving to media pressure. As a galway man if lundy had a repeat of the diving incident I wouldn't object if he received whatever punishment mccann ends up with. GAA needs to be fair.

galwayfball (Galway) - Posts: 1678 - 12/08/2015 19:11:28    1769068

a bite incident by the dubs was also widely reported..that doesnt mean it was right or wrong..the u21 final was mere accusations...all i seen was stamping and tyrone players receiving dirty fouls..its funny how people think im from tyrone just because i disagreed with somebody getting on their high horse and failing to look at their own county before attacking another about something

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 12/08/2015 19:22:41    1769075

but greengrass my issue is i dont remember u going in hard on meath for embaressing racism?....you have to treat each case on its merits...u remember the incident?..where was such outrage posting?..cavanaghs reputation isnt well earned..nobody spoke about him being a cheat before brolly went on his famous rant...your disdain for tyrone is clear in your posting..it doesnt make you a very objective observer

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 12/08/2015 19:27:05    1769080

i was under the impression hughes got sent off for the laughable tackle he made...people just cant be objective on here it seems

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 12/08/2015 19:35:44    1769090

fabio8
County: USA
Posts: 2177

1769080 but greengrass my issue is i dont remember u going in hard on meath for embaressing racism?....you have to treat each case on its merits...u remember the incident?..where was such outrage posting?..cavanaghs reputation isnt well earned..nobody spoke about him being a cheat before brolly went on his famous rant...your disdain for tyrone is clear in your posting..it doesnt make you a very objective observer

I remember the incident well and felt again that it was totally unacceptable. Tommy Carr I remember was very annoyed at the outcome of the investigation of the incident. Firstly Fabio I tend to take breaks away from this forum as it is not healthy to be constantly stuck to a laptop/ipad/iPhone. The incident was extremely serious and you are correct to highlight it. I also remember the Lee Chin incident. Secondly Meath have not brought the game into disrepute at all levels of the game over the last number of years.. Tyrone this year alone, have. Thirdly these types of incident have been dogging Tyrone back as far as Phillip Jordan's dive in 2003. Fourthly you need to get your head out of the sand in relation to Sean Kavanagh. Brolly was right to call him out on his actions two years ago. In three successive championship matches Cavanagh deliberately hauled opponents to the ground. He is a serial cheat who now consistently dives at the slightest contact and that is recognised amongst the wider public. You are correct when you say each incident needs to be judged on it's merits. It's time you did that.

i was under the impression hughes got sent off for the laughable tackle he made...people just cant be objective on here it

He was sent off on a straight red. Monaghan intend to appeal.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 13/08/2015 11:34:44    1769328

Sorry Gotmilk, only replying now.

As I said on one level its unfair to single out and punish one player for something several players have been doing in the past 6-12 months.

On the other hand things have got to a stage where this kind of thing is so prevalent that something major has to be done to eradicate it.

The pressure on the GAA to act now is massive and unfortunately for McCann his was the most high profile case of it last weekend. Its simply a case of being the wrong man in the wrong place at the wrong time.

On a broader point can I ask another straight question?

We have loads of posters on this site declaring it a travesty that McCann is getting an 8 week ban.

We now have people like James Horan and Joe Brolly labelling it a ludicrous and illegal.

Yet all of you and all of these paid commentators have been bemoaning for months the play acting, diving, feigning injury etc that has crept into our games.

The GAA has finally decided to do something, it has taken strong action to deter this stuff continuing on the field of play.

But now their uproar because of it?????!!!!!

I mean do people want to see this stuff eradicated or don't they? The only way it could be is by the GAA doing what they have, hanging one player out to dry to ensure no other player dares to ever again act like this.

Is it fair that McCann is signalled out no, but if you want it this stuff to stop its the best way to ensure it is.

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 13/08/2015 16:08:14    1769553

TheHermit
County: Kerry
Posts: 703

1769553
Sorry Gotmilk, only replying now.

As I said on one level its unfair to single out and punish one player for something several players have been doing in the past 6-12 months.

On the other hand things have got to a stage where this kind of thing is so prevalent that something major has to be done to eradicate it.

The pressure on the GAA to act now is massive and unfortunately for McCann his was the most high profile case of it last weekend. Its simply a case of being the wrong man in the wrong place at the wrong time.

On a broader point can I ask another straight question?

We have loads of posters on this site declaring it a travesty that McCann is getting an 8 week ban.

We now have people like James Horan and Joe Brolly labelling it a ludicrous and illegal.

Yet all of you and all of these paid commentators have been bemoaning for months the play acting, diving, feigning injury etc that has crept into our games.

The GAA has finally decided to do something, it has taken strong action to deter this stuff continuing on the field of play.

But now their uproar because of it?????!!!!!

I mean do people want to see this stuff eradicated or don't they? The only way it could be is by the GAA doing what they have, hanging one player out to dry to ensure no other player dares to ever again act like this.

Is it fair that McCann is signalled out no, but if you want it this stuff to stop its the best way to ensure it is.

Christ Hermit I wouldn't like to live in any country you ruled, there has been a spate of petty, anti-social crimes, people are getting annoyed and feel something needs to be done to stop it and a deterrent put in place as they feel the present punishment is too lenient. Instead of putting in place new legislation and announcing a clamp down on such behaviour in the future, they wait until the next person is caught and impose an extremely harsh sentence and announce "let that be a lesson to all of you".

Not getting at you Hermit I believe you are trying to take a reasonable view on it all, but I think you summed it up yourself when you said "The pressure on the GAA to act now is massive and unfortunately for McCann his was the most high profile case of it last weekend". That's the problem, the GAA wants to be seen to do something to appease outside influences instead of abiding by their own rules.

benched (Tyrone) - Posts: 534 - 13/08/2015 16:58:05    1769589

Benched that is spot on. You can change the punishment without informing anyone. That is where i have my gripe. Change the punishment at the next congress. Give it a 3 month ban and I would be quite happy. But you can not change it mid season without telling anyone. You can not single out one person either. You have to treat everyone and every county equally.

'All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others'

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 13/08/2015 17:13:29    1769601

Lads lads, I know where ye are coming from an in an ideal world I would agree with you both.

However we all know that the GAA simply declaring this sort of thing is not going to be accepted any more isn't going to deter anyone who still wants to do it (hows the referee give respect get respect campaign going as an example).

You talk of rule changes and Congress motions which will take months to pass, and before then players are free to continue with this farce!

If you do this to Macann it ends here, no player will risk destroying his season by doing this stuff again.

It ends here. Its (hopefully)consigned to the history books like those belched blonde streaks in players hair!

And lets not forget Mccann isn't some innocent party!

Look back in 2008 I would have been very upset about how the GAA treated Paul Galvin over the notebook incident. On one level I was arguing it was so unfair to get such a lengthy ban given the context; the treatment he was getting from his marker that he tried to make the officials aware of and the fact it was only a flipping notebook!

But on another level I accepted that the GAA had to make a stand. Paul was out of line and something drastic had to be done in case others started at it.

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 13/08/2015 17:31:03    1769612

Hermit, two wrongs don't make a right. You cannot undermine the integrity of your disciplinary procedures because the punishment for a transgression is not to your liking. What has to be done is that the relevant rule and sanction must be revised . The rule for feigning injury is that a player receives a yellow card for a first offence. Martin Duffy erred in both sending Darren Hughes off for his part in the incident and in failing to give McCann a yellow card. Joe Brolly has invoked the principle of statutory interpretation to challenge the proposed sanction. He has also stated clearly that feigning injury is a clearly defined action. He asserts that there are not varying degrees of seriousness when it comes to feigning injury. According to Martin Breheny The GAA will contend that by feigning injury McCann's intention was to get Daarren Hughes sent off and that is the reason for the more serious charge and proposed sanction. I cannot see how they can prove that. I will say again that you cannot undermine the integrity of your disciplinary procedures because the sanction for a transgression is not to your liking. That is unacceptable. I agree with you that McCann's actions were poor. He compounded his actions by deliberately hauling down Drew Wylie a few short minutes later and taking a black card. He joked about his dive on Twitter. However he must be dealt with honestly and fairly. The rules as they pertain must be applied. If your disciplinary procedures are not administered with the highest levels of integrity then you have nothing.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 13/08/2015 17:57:31    1769635