What a brilliant game in Croke Park yesterday, a credit to both counties. It was thrilling. When Tyrone ran in groups at the heart of the Kerry defence in the second half they looked lethal. They carved out 3-4 excellent goal chances. The noise when both counties scored was impressive.

Football played like that is inspirational, well done to both counties.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 24/08/2015 09:37:25    1774946

Kerry just about deserved it, their subs all made a big impact. Tyrone's inability to take their opportunities from long range frees ultimately cost them, in saying that I thought the Kerry back were far too close to the kicker on every occasion ( remember people moaning about Donegal doing this) but Deegan took no action but there is little doubt it is very distracting for the place kicker.

Deegan got a couple of big calls wrong, the penalty call was poor enough but the 45 in the first half and the Tyrone black card in 2nd half and his refusal to give Enright one were just incredible - he also booked Darren O Sullivan for a full frontal tackle the same player then dragged a Tyrone to the ground in injury time but again no action.

Tyrone left the game behind them through missed chances and indeed poor kicking by Morgan from goal kicks ( coughed up 3/4 scores from these at least) but please let's have no more bulls@it about Kerry being the 'Brazil' of Gaelic football there is no team as cynical as Kerry in the pursuit of victory and they proved it yet again yesterday

PaudieSull1 (Down) - Posts: 738 - 24/08/2015 09:38:12    1774948

but please let's have no more bulls@it about Kerry being the 'Brazil' of Gaelic football there is no team as cynical as Kerry in the pursuit of victory and they proved it yet again yesterday

Fair comment but if you watch the game back, it is very noticeable that once 60.00 was on the clock, Kerry's tackling became a lot more aggressive. They were using massive shoulder hits and forced Tyrone wide where 2 or 3 of their players would tear into the Tyrone lads physically. They were hitting awful hard but legally most of the time and they are not the soft touch they were for example in 2003.

As for cynicism, I think it is impossible to win in Gaelic football without it. In my mind the only solution to it is a sin bin rule. Get rid of the black card.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 24/08/2015 09:43:00    1774952

Agree with slayer .... sin bin needed badly in the game black card has no impact .... particularly for the bigger teams with a strong bench it's an inconvenience but that's about it ... replacing Marc o se with fionn Fitzgerald .!!. Fitzgerald wud b first name on team sheet n a lot of other counties ...
And re kerry they now have the toughness and the skillset .. tho they did look troubled any time Tyrone ran at them so therein lies their weakness .Tyrone ran out of legs but .. Dublin I think have the bench strong enough to play that running game for 70 minutes so if Dublin beat mayo(if) I still fancy them to win Sam

rossy15 (Roscommon) - Posts: 619 - 24/08/2015 09:52:46    1774964

Yes,i agree slayer.The black card is not working.Once again on the Sunday Game last night,a lot of time was spent saying which player should have received a black card and which other player,a red or yellow.Did M O Se getting a black card,seriously weaken Kerry?I dont think so.Being able to replace a player is hardly punishment at all.I think a sin bin of 10 minutes would be a fairer punishment for the offending team.Kerry being down to 14 men for ten minutes would have been a greater benefit to Tyrone than a direct replacement for M O Se.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 24/08/2015 09:59:37    1774970

PaudieSull1

but please let's have no more bulls@it about Kerry being the 'Brazil' of Gaelic football there is no team as cynical as Kerry in the pursuit of victory and they proved it yet again yesterday

Well for a start I haven't heard anybody calling Kerry the Brazil of Gaelic Football in a while, I don't know where that complaint really comes from.

Saying there is no team more cynical is certainly an exaggeration, Kerry can be as cynical as the most cynical teams when they want to be, but they didn't invent it, I think they've just adopted the 'if you can't beat them join them' attitude. Anyway Tyrone were extremely cynical in the closing stages of the Monaghan, more so than Kerry yesterday so Tyrone can hardly cry foul about another team being cynical (which to be fair I haven't seen a Tyrone poster do but I haven't read many posts here).

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 24/08/2015 10:00:04    1774971

I'm not buying all this craic about Fitzmaurice being a great manager. He's a good manager, and an incredibly lucky manager. Take last year for instance, Mayo should have beaten them twice but for their failure to close out the game the first day with 14 men and because of a diabolical referee the 2nd day. Then in the final, the only reason they won against a Donegal team playing woefully was for two fortuitous goals. One of them was through a dirty ball won by Paul Geaney, yet Fitzmaurice hardly employed this tactic for the remainder of the game. And this year, a referee handed them a replay in the Munster final and decided yesterdays game for them when the game was in the melting pot in the last 10 minute. A black which was yellow for Tyrone, a yellow that was a black for Kerry and a penalty that was never given. Saying that, Kerry were getting the decisions all game. At least 4 points were gifted to Kerry by the referee.

• Colm Kavanagh was pushed in the back, and Deegan immediately gave a free to David Moran. Kavanagh protested, ball is moved forward, point to Kerry.
• The 45 that never was. Point to Kerry.
• James O Donoghue dive off the ball. Point to Kerry.
• Two minutes of stoppage time up in the first half. Kerry allowed to play on. Point to Kerry.

Tyrone were denied two clear frees inside the 21 yard line. One when Donnacha Walsh slid tackled Colm Kavanagh. The other when a Kerry defender played the ball on the ground in the 2nd half.

Also, the gooch should have seen yellow at least for his cowardly two fisted effort at playing the ball which caught a Tyrone man straight in the face. Dangerous play, yellow or red card. Probably merited a yellow. Then their was David Morans ankle tap trip, which the referee clearly saw as he gave a free. Black card offence.

And of course he could have booked any number of Kerry players for preventing Morgan taking quick kickouts and for standing too close and goading free takers. It was actually sickening to watch the cynicism of Kerry, but sure they don't do that sort of thing down in Kerry. The reality is Tyrone could still have won this game if they had taken at least two their four clear goal chances, along with converting their free kicks. They will be kicking themselves but I don't think they would have stood a chance in the final as the other side of the draw is much stronger. For the sake of football, I hope Mayo win it this year. Them or the Dubs. And an impartial referee for the final would be great.

TomTucker (Galway) - Posts: 7 - 24/08/2015 10:03:37    1774973

SIN BIN?!! Ah lads come on, that's a tried and tested failure, it didn't work the first time so odds are it won't work the second time. I'm not really a big fan of the black card either though, I think it's too hard to ref consistently but surely match bans for yellow card accumulation and stronger penalties for cynical fouling in dangerous areas (ie straight reds) would be better deterrents.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 24/08/2015 10:05:16    1774976

The last game i saw Brazil play was the humiliating 7-1 home loss to a rampant Germany in World Cup.If i was comparing any county to them on that showing,it would be the Kilkenny footballers.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 24/08/2015 10:06:02    1774978

Other sports have zero problem with the sin bin.How did we fail so quickly?As a deterrent for cynical fouling,it has to be better than this silly black card nonsense.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 24/08/2015 10:13:48    1774986

one query I have regarding the advantage rule. There was an advantage played by the ref when Tyrone were fouled, he let the play carrry on Tyrone worked the ball about 20 metres forward and got fouled again, ref brought the ball back and gave free where original foul was committed (much more difficult free). Is this correct referring ?. surely if you play advantage then the free should be awarded where the second offence was commited. I seen this happen before in a game.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 24/08/2015 10:22:18    1774992

SIN BIN?!! Ah lads come on, that's a tried and tested failure, it didn't work the first time so odds are it won't work the second time.

HTAEM

I think it has to happen. As previous posts point out, Kerry have O'Se black carded and another defender of equal ability comes on. Where is the punishment? Look at rugby union where once a team goes down to 14 the opposition can stretch them and tries (often) follow.

To ensure it works a few things also need to happen:

1 - I'd take away all timekeeping from the ref. Make it a hooter system and define when the clock should be stopped.
2 - a TMO is possibly needed to refer decisions to. This should be relatively easy to do for championship games.
3 - Sin Bin fouls defined and circulated. So if you do x, you go in the bin

This is not designed to make the game robotic, but when you have counties psending loads of money on players & management, refereeing is the one area money hasn't really been spent on.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 24/08/2015 10:22:52    1774993

In the final last year, Fitz played a masterstroke with Geaney, who was primed and ready to execute to order. Yesterday, I think Fitz might have acted quicker (all that he did at half-time should have been done sooner). How he shores up the backline will now be interesting, as they are vulnerable when run at.
The other side of the draw is stronger. Dublin need to deliver under pressure. Mayo need to stay focused until the final whistle. If both play well, I fancy Mayo. If this Mayo front up in a final then Kerry may finally run out of road. We'll see...

plike (Kerry) - Posts: 569 - 24/08/2015 10:25:23    1774995

slayer

Look I see what you're saying, there's not much punishment in a black card when you can replace a player with another player of similar quality. But again I have to stress that the sin bin didn't work when they tried it years ago and I doubt it would work again, the sin bin is fine for a proper contact sport like rugby but I don't think it's suited to the Gaa.

I can remember Meath playing Kildare in an O'Byrne cup match years ago when they were trying out the sin bin and at one stage our entire fullback line was in the bin, might have only been for a couple minutes but it was a joke. Now I know you could easily say, well if you's behaved that wouldn't happen but some of the decision were very poor and it leaves you without a player for 10 minutes.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 24/08/2015 10:41:12    1775003

To be honest this whole black card yellow card affair is a joke. McNamee's tackle on Gooch was a stiff arm body check on a small man, travelling at pace, who had just about gone past him and would have potentially been in on goal. No effort made to protect the opponent by using a bent arm. It was dangerous and if he knew what he was doing (which you have to presume he did) then it was also cynical. The kerry take down was 100% cynical, absolutely. I hate seeing it but it was not dangerous and was not right in front of goal. Marc O'Se's take down was just stupid. You can see he slipped, the first hand wrapped around and would have been a simple foul but the second hand coming round for a trip got him the black card. I think he realised too late he was being stupid. There was no need of it. In fairness there was a serious bit of "over emphasis" by the Tyrone lad. Clarke's tackle later on Gooch was an assault, on purpose, meant, late, could easily have been avoided and was downright dangerous. On the penalties, the second one should have been a peno, soft defending though by us. The first was given by the ref and you could correctly argue eitherway if he shoud or shouldn't have given it. He gave it. Soft, is what most people would call it.

Black, card, yellow card, red card, it's a joke and impossible for refs to decide on when one day everyone is playing tough and the next day everyone is diving and falling around the place. As Sean Cavanagh said after the match - "all we're looking for is fair play". Well Sean, I think you're right, but remember, what goes around comes around.

Some commentators (not Tyrone people, I hasten to add) on here saying Tyrone threw it away. If they had won, everybody would be saying Kerry threw it away. Last year Mayo threw it away against Kerry. Kerry threw it away in '08 and '11 and '13. Cork threw it away in July. Dublin threw it away in '01. Round and round we go. The result is what counts lads. Wake away. Take a dose of realism. When you win you deserve it. When you lose you didn't overcome what was thrown at you.

thykingdomcome1 (Kerry) - Posts: 78 - 24/08/2015 10:50:56    1775014

Hats off to Tyrone, their is a Sam in this team, they remind of Kerry in 2013, a young team who just fell short against us. Dublin thought us a lesson that day in 2013( We haven't lost since)and feel that if they can get a few options off the bench and at bit of maturity up front I feel they can win Sam in 2017. Id prefer Dublin in the final, as good as they are, Mayo have fierce hunger and they wont stop until they wen Sam.
I for one would like Mickey Harte to win Sam once more.

kerryrowz (Kerry) - Posts: 833 - 24/08/2015 10:54:57    1775019

Htaem, I was at that O'Byrne Cup match you mentioned and it said more about your full back line that it did about the sin bin. After the game Sean Boylan cried foul and said it would destroy the game and was joined by Mickey Harte who was also very vocal against the sin bin.
Some people at the time though it interesting that the managers of those 2 counties saw what the future looked like for their style of play and did not like it one bit. It should have been persevered with as it is the only way to cut out cynical play. Arguing the toss about whether a player should have got a yellow or black is pointless as the offending team still ends up with 15 players.
Watch how rugby teams target the opposition when they have a player in the sin bin. Matches have been lost in this way and it works well.
ps Kildare have no worries about the introduction of the sin bin as we dont get near enough to tackle!

murof (Kildare) - Posts: 480 - 24/08/2015 11:06:21    1775034

4 clear cut goal opportunities non taken cost us dearly if Kerry got threw on goal like this the onion bag would have rattled , Morgan getting plenty of blame from some up here I dont buy it he made a few bad choices on kick outs but the finishing up front was where we lost it , Id have bitten the hand off myself to think we coulld get to an All Ireland semi final after that wet Sunday Exit in Ballybofe to knock out the Ulster champions on route then give the Kingdom the fright of their lives , end of term report ( Boy done good ! but has the potential to do a lot better ) .

fortyfive (Tyrone) - Posts: 5929 - 24/08/2015 11:13:53    1775040

Terrific contest played in dire conditions.
Kerry will be delighted to get into the final after being put through the ringer.
Fitzmaurice was decisive on the sideline yesterday.
Referee did his best - now its over to Mayo and the Dubs.
PS - well done to the minors also.

traleeexile (Kerry) - Posts: 732 - 24/08/2015 11:25:46    1775054

Dissapointing result but hands down beaten fair and square. Kerry are a class act and are incredibly efficient. If we can get through another couple of forwards in the next year I don't think we will be far away. Lee brennan is waiting in the wings.

Great year for tyrone and really instilled pride back in the county! Onwards and upwards. Until next year, c'mon tyrone we're on our own!

redhanddefender (Tyrone) - Posts: 913 - 24/08/2015 11:35:12    1775069