Bdbuddah, You are missing a very simple point that I have already made to you . I said you were wrong when you asserted that things had never been like this before and you are most definitely wrong . The point I made to you was that all of those results I highlighted to you were results from All Ireland semi finals or All Ireland finals . The teams involved were all provincial champions and yet they were still being slaughtered . Teams like Mayo in 1981 who failed to score in the second half of the 1981 All Ireland semi final. Teams like Offaly who only scored one point in the second half of the 1981 All Ireland final . The point being made to you is very simple . Your post is self serving and in no way addresses what was put before you. You are not comparing like with like . And if you think teams were not resigned to defeat before they went out on the field in the late seventies and early eighties then think again . Provincial champions were resigned to defeat before they went out on the field . Finally if you are looking for comprehensive defeats try these two from 1979, Dublin 4-16 Louth 0-04 or Kerry 9-21 Clare 1-09. That last result is a 36 point defeat .

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 05/08/2015 18:00:29    1764626

dblackandamber
County: Kilkenny
Posts: 72

1763202
Whatever about the football, I think hurling would be better off with a slight restructure in the league and championship, but for the most part the three tier system works.

Hurling has a four tier system for championship (six for league). A big problem for these competitions is that they're given zero promotion or respect and that they're run off quickly in May/beginning of June. The Gaa would be far better playing them later in the summer.

muffinbutton (Clare) - Posts: 20 - 05/08/2015 18:02:17    1764628

Colm Parkinson's suggestions is good. Play provincials off earlier and run the championship exactly like the present league with quarter finals teams drawn from top 8. imo 6 from div 1 and the two promoted teams from div 2. Teams have to earn the right to enter the championship .

crikey (Australia) - Posts: 355 - 05/08/2015 20:50:04    1764717

A 3 tier All Ireland series ticks a lot of boxes in my view, configured as follows;
12 x Senior teams broken up into 4 Groups of 3
As above for Intermediate
9 x Junior teams broken up into 3 groups of 3 (have included London and Kilkenny)
Group stages commences 2nd last weekend in May, all teams play each other both at home and away
2 Group stage matches on first two weekends then a free weekend followed by final 2 group matches
Top 2 teams in each group progress to q finals which are played 2 weeks after final group stage games
4 Bottom teams go into relegation playoff - 2 teams make the drop
Junior and Inter finalists promoted
Free weekends between q final and semi final and semi and final
Finals played on bumper All Ireland August Bank Holiday weekend
Positives
No B competition or Tommy Murphy branding - proper tiered All Ireland championships providing a tangible goal for all counties
Less mismatches as per current structure
Teams play same number of games at the same times, no disparity between paths to the latter stages per current structures
All counties guaranteed 2 home games every year - imagine the buzz of the Dubs or Kerry arriving in Celtic Park/Clones/athletic Grounds/Salthill etc
Competition runs over 11 weeks allowing club championships to commence in August

northernsoul (Leitrim) - Posts: 78 - 05/08/2015 21:14:46    1764733

Greengrass: What do you not get about the point I made? You are talking about about how things are similar now. You picked out 2 results from many years ago of first round matches where the All Ireland favourites hammered 2 bad teams. The difference now is that the top few teams are beingating teams ranked only a few places below them like the way the All Ireland favourites you mentioned hammering bad teams in early round matches. Sligo beat a 2016 division team and got to a provincial final and lost by 26. Kildare had come through the qualifiers and were a great run of wins after being hammered by Dublin. Once they hit another top team in Kerry they went down by 27. Jim McGuinness made similar points in newspaper. Looking at the odds on a bookey website for championship matches this year tells this story. In the 1970's you would never have have got odds of 1/250 for a provisional final.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1360 - 05/08/2015 21:48:19    1764759

Bdbuddah the point is made in front of you . It is very simple . If you can't understand it then that is down to you. I can't make it any clearer. Provincial champions were regularly slaughtered in the seventies and eighties. In 1978 the defending All Ireland champions and one of the top two teams in the country for the previous two years were beaten by 17 points in the All Ireland final . You said that my initial set of results which listed annihilations from All Ireland semi finals and finals over a period of six years provided nothing that came close to a 27 point beating. I gave you a result which was a 36 point beating. You talk about Kildare as if they are a top outfit. They are far, far from it. They are a Division Three team next year. The two teams who came through the other side of the qualifier draw, Donegal and Tyrone are far stronger than Kildare. You made a statement in your initial post asserting that things had never been as bad from the point of view of hammerings. You were wrong and you were called on it. Deal with it and learn from it, stop being silly and move on.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 06/08/2015 10:49:49    1764867

Greengrass: I think its you who shifted the goalposts with what was said and then clap yourself on back as if you have proved yourself. The point I made about was how teams who taken on an overall national level are fairly decent are being totally destroyed by the big boys to a greater degree than before. I say this someone who can remember being at Meath games where occasionally we beat teams easily in semi-finals. The beatings these teams are getting now is different. The top teams rarely get out of second gear against most of the rest and still win easy. Even results which years ago would have been considered a hiding in these matches nowadays almost seem to be taught about differently because they are so expected (Look at the positive reaction Westmeath's and Fermanagh's losses to Dublin). In the 2 matches I mentioned in the space of weeks, the Connaught final, a 26 point loss suffered by a team who had previously knocked out a highly rated team which will play division 1 next year. Kildare, who had been hammered by Dublin are then able to go out and knock 2 teams out of the championship and once they play the boys are beaten by 27. You then listed a lot of results from 70's- early 80's from latter stages of Championship. I pointed out to you that only 1 of these losses came remotely close to the manner of the Kildare/ Sligo beatings above. You then point to a first round match where the country's best team from that era (and any era) hammered one of the countrys worst. Well that's kind of the point, now when one of the top teams play a team who taken on an overall national level are relatively decent the gulf in standard is like what a top team used to expect when playing a whipping boy in the first round. What would really bring this home to you is if you had looked at a bookie's website before some of these matches. The odds being offered on these type of matches this year is nothing like the odds from a few years ago and indicate these matches are much less competitive than before. You should have head Eugeen McGee talking about the Leinster Championship after Dublin beat Kildare this year. He compared it to his time when he managed Offaly when a number of teams in Leinster could put it up to Dublin on any day despite Dublin having a great era of success.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1360 - 06/08/2015 12:50:08    1764996

Bdbuddah, you are waffling around in circles . 1978 All Ireland Final , Dublin the defending champions looking for 3 in a row are slaughtered by 17 points. Are you are seriously trying to tell me that that defeat doesn't come close to what Kildare endured this year ? Two words for you PROVINCIAL CHAMPIONS !!!!!!!! That is what was slaughtered on a regular basis back then not a Division Three team that came through the weaker side of the draw having beaten Offaly, Longford and a Cork team that had no stomach for the fight . Like I said before, you were wrong. You were called on it . Now stop being silly ,learn from it and move on .

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 06/08/2015 14:02:40    1765064

Greengrass: ?? 17 point defeat and a 27 point defeat are both horrible results but yes one is a much heavier defeat than the other. In the old knockout system just because a team got to a semi-final did not mean they were necessarly in the top 4 best teams in the country. As I said if you want to see the competitive nature of many games in the latter stages of the Championship go to the bookies. There always was many games where teams were heavely favoured (for example in the 1970's and 1980's Leinster/Munster teams were usually expected to beat Connaught/Ulster teams and ususlly did with a bit to spare) but the odds on offer for some games this year I have never seen before. 1/250 for a provincial final, I never thought I would see anything remotely like this a few years ago. Its fairly obvious to me why the bookies are making teams in these type of matches much hotter favurites than ever before, the ganmes are even less competitive and there is a much lesser chance of a shock than before.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1360 - 06/08/2015 15:38:06    1765142

Like I said learn and move on . If you are even comparing a 27 point defeat of a Division Three team to a 17 point defeat of a defending two time All Ireland champion then you need to reevaluate what you have been saying .

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 06/08/2015 15:59:51    1765162

Very simple format for a new Gaelic season.

Play National league alongside provincial championships.
No Qualifiers, 4 provincial champions into All Ireland semis

A team losing in the championship still has competitive league games to play. I think the league would become much more important.
Run the same format off in hurling, although with a slight change in their being only Munster and Leinster championships. Championship games get Sunday fixtures, league games Saturday fixtures.

League 4 divisions of 8, no playoffs. Every team plays every other team once. 3 home 3 away, final weekend features double headers at neutral venues. 17 week season.

Week 1 Football League 1 Hurling League 1
Week 2 Football League 2 Hurling League 2
Week 3 Football League 3 Hurling championship 1st round (8 division 2 hurling teams playoff to get 4 teams joining the division 1 teams in the Liam McCarthy)
Week 4 Football Championship Ulster and Leinster 1st Rounds Hurling League Round 3
Week 5 Football League 4, Hurling championship provincial quarter finals
Week 6 Football Championship 1/2 provincial quarter finals, Hurling League Round 4
Week 7 Football Championship 2nd set of provincial quarter finals, break for Hurling
Week 8 Football League 5, Hurling Provincial Championship Semi-Finals
Week 9 Football Championship 1/2 provincial semi-finals, hurling league round 5
Week 10 Football Championship 1/2 provincial semi-finals, hurling league round 6
Week 11 Football league round 6, Hurling Provincials championship finals
Week 12 Football Championship Provincial Finals
Week 13 Hurling league round 7
Week 14 Football League round 7
Week 15 All Ireland Football Semi Finals
Week 16 All Ireland Hurling Final
Week 17 All Ireland Football Final

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4241 - 06/08/2015 19:03:13    1765320