I disagree that social media is the problem. I think it's because of social media that we've realized the problem in the current format.

The same craic was happening years ago without the aid of financial power does that make it OK? I don't think so, it's because of social media that everyone is seeing how flawed the system is IMO.

Uncle_Fester (Meath) - Posts: 217 - 04/08/2015 15:25:56    1763793

We all know there are only 5/6 teams that can win the all Ireland. occasionally a team springs from the pack and makes the semi final, nearly every year there is one surprise in the quarter final (Fermanagh this year cavan a few years ago) but none of these teams have any realistic chance of winning it.
I think we have to take a look at club championships all over the country and structure the all Ireland on that basis. 16 senior champ teams, 8 intermediate champ and 8 junior. Teams can get promoted and relegated based on league, provincial champ and previous year performances. To my mind then most counties in Ireland would go into the championship with something realistic to play for and there would be less risk of the one sided games that are commonplace these days.
And while im on it Quigleys comments yesterday to me are a nonsense. Fermanagh haven't had a decent run in the championship for 10 years. if you balance his opinions with all the players in Fermanagh that have had nothing to talk about for that perion I think you might get a truer view. I'm sure the Kildare or Sligo players might have a contrary argument also.

indaknownow (Offaly) - Posts: 112 - 04/08/2015 16:47:34    1763873

Last year, before the Munster final, one pundit opined that Kerry were being schooled at under age level and in the league. The 'expert' then predicted a period of dominance for Cork. Well, that didn't quite work out, did it?

I like the idea of a World Cup pools format in football. I am keen on any format in hurling that allows the nearly men, like Kerry, to get regular outings. Any rule changes that reward attacking play and blunt the use of blanket defence is also great, imho.

It always amazes me that a rubbish game like soccer dominates globally. If only the Saxons had taken up hurling! They used to play it in Cornwall, but our Celtic cousins lost the habit, for whatever reason.

plike (Kerry) - Posts: 569 - 04/08/2015 17:19:56    1763897

It's not just a new championship structure needed it's a total new inter-county format. The way the inter-county season is so long while still involves few serious games for teams is ridiculous. The number of training sessions compared to the number of serious games is not right(For weaker teams who train hard 2 serious games a season is not enough). The league is a competition few care about as anything other than a Championship warm-up so they should scrap it. I like the way with the provincial championship it is easy to travel to most games and local rivalries build up so I would like to see some form of regional/ provincial format maintained. In football maybe have North/ South/ East/ West regions each with 8 teams each. The main effect of this could be some of the southern and midland Leinster counties 'moving out' of the eastern region to one of the southern/ western provincial/ regional championships. From this scheduling a regional/ provincial championship where each region had the same number of teams should be easier. With the league scrapped the inter county championship could start and finish earlier in the calendar allowing more time for Club championship's to take place.
Something like below could work
In each region the top 5 teams could all play each other on a 'tier A' round robin basis (which means each getting 4 matches) and the top 3 could make it to the semi-finals.
The weakest 3 teams in each region could play each other home and away on a 'tier B' round robin basis (which means each getting 4 matches) with the top team getting a semi-final slot.
There could be promotion/ relegation between each tier each year. Once each provincial/ regional championship is over the All Ireland semi-finals could again consist regional/ provincial champions.
The round robin element be run off nationally over 5/6 weeks. Another 2/3 weeks for the knock-out phase of the provincial/ regional championships. Then a weeks break and then run the All Ireland series off over 2 weekends.
The shorter Inter-county championship season could mean club championships being scheduled properly. How about aim to have the inter-county championship run-off by the end of July ?

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1360 - 04/08/2015 17:36:35    1763910

Condorman, ( is that ok precious ) there are 12 counties in Leinster and 9 counties in Ulster . At least you got Munster and Connacht right . The fact that you stress ( your word not mine ) on an anonymous forum that the provincial system is over doesn't make it so . Eugene McGee came up with an interesting proposition involving losing first round teams from Ulster and Leinster being given a second chance in Connacht and Munster. Your assertion that you won't propose an alternative as that is the responsibility of the authorities is nothing more than a pathetic cop out .

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 04/08/2015 17:56:06    1763925

If every county is well resourced,superbly coached and managed and regard it as a failure not to reach a quarterfinal,then where will we get the cannonfodder on which the elite rely for their advancement?.

worple (Roscommon) - Posts: 340 - 04/08/2015 18:08:41    1763933

Uncle Fester are you seriously saying that people didn't realise that the provincial system was unequal before "social media "? Are you saying that before we had the twittering classes and the Facebook brigade inflicting their daily rituals on us that people didn't know that the provincial system was unequal ? I remember a time when we existed without social media and believe it or not people spoke about the provincial system and pointed out it's inequities . People were well able to think for themselves BSM ( Before Social Media ).

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 04/08/2015 18:15:05    1763938

I think the GAA have to look at working out a better fixture list first,if you are a young player,you have to play U21 county football,Senior County football,Sigerson Cup all around the same time of the year.They have to train with all these teams..

ziggy32001 (Meath) - Posts: 8354 - 04/08/2015 18:31:19    1763950

The championship is unlikely to be played longer than the current 4 month window. Group stages are overrated but are an option. Irish people like the big off one off events. The World Cup and Champions League get interesting at the knockout stage. Linking league performance to championship is a good option, especially if the club championships are finished in the calendar year and counties have their full compliment of players to choose from at the start of the league.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7879 - 04/08/2015 18:48:08    1763956

Greengrass if you are happy to continue with the present crazy and outdated system then theres no reasoning with you.
Seeing as you are pressing me for an alternative I would suggest that the National Leagues be played during the late spring and summer months.Make the league the real championship.Four divisions of 8 teams playing each other home and away.Run a knock out competition during the league with the final in August.
This would ensure that every county got plenty of meaningful games during the best months to play our games.
Something similar could be done in hurling.
Anything would be better than what we are stuck with.

Condorman (Dublin) - Posts: 983 - 04/08/2015 19:56:39    1763989

Not what the original post was about but noticed a lot of people on here saying that there always was only a small few teams who could win championship. This was usually the case but the difference now is the gap below these teams to the rest is much much bigger than ever before. When you see Dublin being 1/250 on in a Leinster final that is something completely different than a few years ago (ok part of the reason was Westmeath's surprise appearance in the final but had Meath got to the final it would have been still of being odds of something like 1/35). Same for many of the games this year. (I don't know what were the odds for Dublin to beat Fermanagh on Sunday?). In the past you might have occasionally seeing enormous beatings in first round games but now a team that is capable of getting through early rounds are often getting these beatings (I am not talking about 10 point beatings here). Next year odds like 1/250 might be the norm when Mayo/ Dublin or Kerry are playing many games. For people to say this is the same down the years are wrong. Seeing Fermanagh on Sunday being so happy and celebrating a comprehensive beating by Dublin was sad to see.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1360 - 05/08/2015 09:09:19    1764095

You are wrong bdbuddah. Here is a selection of results from All Ireland semi finals from the late seventies and early eighties . 1975 Kerry 3-13 Sligo 0-05. 1976 Kerry 5-14 Derry 1-10. 1977 Final Dublin 5-12 Armagh 3-06. 1978 Kerry 3-13 Roscommon 0-08. Dublin 1-16 Down 0-08. Final Kerry 5-11 Dublin 0-09. 1979 Kerry 5-14 Monaghan 0-07. Final Kerry 3-13 Dublin 1-08. 1981 Kerry 2-19 Mayo 1-06. Do you get the drift ? Those are All Ireland semi final and final results involving provincial champions . We are not even talking about early round results when the weaker counties in all provinces were routinely hammered .

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 05/08/2015 11:44:47    1764216

Condorman thank you for your deeply considered, brilliantly designed alternative championship structures . They are far reaching, highly innovative suggestions . A double league championship involving the top eight teams. Ah sure we might as well throw in a knockout competition involving some format sometime during the summer too !!!!!!!!!! DOH !!!!!!! Wonderful.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 05/08/2015 11:49:17    1764220

There should be no such thing as a one week turn around for starters. Its hard enough for a team to play 7o minutes at this level without having the added difficulty of going into a match with this on your back. Other than that, there is little that can be done to improve the structures as there always be stronger teams and there always will be lob sided provincial systems, by the looks of things anyway

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 05/08/2015 11:57:08    1764228

For a new championship why not play out the provisional championships as normal then split the 32 counties into two groups of 16! The 8 finalists will be the top 8, the remaining 8 will be chosen from the teams with the highest league position! So if Tyrone got beat in the semi final of ulster then they would not be in the top 8, but could be in the top 16 by finishing high in the league thus making league performances more important!

The top 16 ranked teams would play the bottom 16 teams in a play off, the winners progress into Sam Maguire last 16 while the 16 defeated teams will break off to
Form their own b championship which is to be played before all Ireland games as a curtain raiser!

This means teams has a chance to win an All Ireland, realistically the top 16 should beat the bottom 16 with a few shocks like any knockout competition!
Fermanagh still have an opportunity to make the proper All Ireland quarter finals like every other team and give the bottom 16 teams a realistic opportunity to win a B championship.

The top 3 or four teams would probably still trash a few teams in the last 16 of all Ireland but that will happen in any championship sometimes! Germany hammered Brazil in the World Cup semi final in Brazil but it doesn't mean Germany needs their own championship with Argentina! Freak results will happen!

But an A and B championship would provide more competitive league games as they try to fight it out to be in the top 16 and mean top 16 teams and bottom 16 could win a championship, equally you could be in the top 16 but lose the play off and fall into the B championship! So there would be the extra excitement of the playoffs as well!

Eclelave (Fermanagh) - Posts: 1 - 05/08/2015 12:22:42    1764255

As I said Greengrass its a complete waste of time trying to talk sense into a stick in the mud like yourself.Sure tis grand, lets keep going with the present farce where some teams start 6 weeks after others and it takes a whole pile of bad, one sided game to arrive at the last 4 which are usually the 4 teams everyone knew would contest the semis.
I know that I could suggest the best championship system imaginable and you would still sneer at it.
I believe the GAA will see sense and we will see radical change soon regardless of some.

Condorman (Dublin) - Posts: 983 - 05/08/2015 12:41:53    1764277

I hear a bit of talk around about 2nd tier competitions after this weekend's trashings, again I'm happy to see a 2nd tier once every team gets at least 1 shot at the main competition every year. The idea that weaker teams would benefit and be interested in a 2nd tier while also being denied a shot at Sam is fanciful, don't forget some teams could end up trapped in a 2nd tier for decades and rarely ever get a shot at a big team, how on earth could that be good for football in those counties?

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 05/08/2015 12:58:47    1764304

Condorman
County: Dublin
Posts: 332

1764277 As I said Greengrass its a complete waste of time trying to talk sense into a stick in the mud like yourself.Sure tis grand, lets keep going with the present farce where some teams start 6 weeks after others and it takes a whole pile of bad, one sided game to arrive at the last 4 which are usually the 4 teams everyone knew would contest the semis.
I know that I could suggest the best championship system imaginable and you would still sneer at it.
I believe the GAA will see sense and we will see radical change soon regardless of some.

Boohoo !! Poor Condorman. If you said something that was worth listening to I would listen. You haven't said anything worth listening to yet. I never said what we have is perfect. Nor did I say we should continue with it. What I have said is that a revised, more equitable provincial system has to be at the core of a new championship. You really should read what is put in front of you.

As for you suggesting the best championship system imaginable why don't you do it and see how I react? What you suggested in your previous post got the reaction it deserved.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 05/08/2015 12:58:50    1764305

It's worth a go

But the effectiveness of such cant be judged overnight

It'll take at the very minimum at least a decade to see if it's working

As teams get more game time, more development...

Then it will be judged

There's no quick fix...

Certainly the current back door model has failed to a large degree

I believe that should be scraped with something on the lines of J McG suggestion

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20601 - 05/08/2015 13:07:59    1764314

Greengrass: Of the matches you mentioned between 1975 to 1981 only 1 beating (22 points) really came close to the 26 point beating Mayo gave Sligo in the Connaught final or the 27 point beating Kerry gave Kildare (and remember with the backdoor era it should mean it is less lightly that weaker teams can reach the latter stages than the old straight knock-out format) in the quarter final in recent weeks. Also in the past I can never remember teams being so resigned to defeats. Westmeath played just to keep the score down against Dublin for most of the second half and seemed to feel they achieved something from a 13 point defeat. Fermanagh supporters celebrated a comprehensive beating which knocked them out of the Championship. Dublin were 1/40 to beat Kildare and then 1/250 to beat Westmeath. In the previous year's Leinster final I think they were something like 1/6 against Meath yet had Meath played them this year I would say it would have been something more like 1/35. The gap between the contenders (Defiantly Dublin, Kerry, Mayo and possibly Donegal or Monaghan) and the rest bigger than it ever has been. Go into a bookie shop before a match involving one of the better teams and you will see this.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1360 - 05/08/2015 17:27:49    1764595