I think the Ulster championship should be changed so the previous years finalists get a bye into the Ulster semi final. eg Donegal and Monaghan for the 2016 Championship. Donegal have had to go the preliminary route to much over the last few years and it puts them at a disadvantage to other AI challengers such as Kerry who only had a provincial semi and final to deal with. So for 2016 I would have it

6 counties in a Preliminary Round(3 matches, 3 winners advance to Quarters)
4 counties in Quarters(2 matches, 3 Prelim winners plus 1 extra county (7 of 9 have now played)
4 counties in semi (2 matches, Each of the quarter winners plays last years finalists eg. Donegal and Monaghan).

I think it gives the better teams in Ulster more equality with the likes of Mayo, Kerry and Dublin who have handy provinces and all sides are going into the Quarters at the same level. Other Ulster sides would be unhappy but its motivation to get to an Ulster final and coming from a Prelim they would have played the same amount of games as Donegal had this year anyway.

DL4SAM (Donegal) - Posts: 19 - 23/07/2015 13:17:12    1757967

I appreciate that other provinces can decide whether to adopt seeding, but let's be honest what happens in Munster for example is, frankly, a rigged draw.

Knoxboyo (Monaghan) - Posts: 170 - 23/07/2015 14:09:27    1758017

Say the Championship proper starts with 2x 16 - the current Prov SF 16 and Qual Rd 1, but with all 32 retaining 2 chances AFTER the Prov QFs.
Prel and QF rounds could still be played in lopsided provs - not to bother, as all are in a '16' with 2 chances.
Then -
Prov SF 16 - Play 3 KO Rds to get 2 unbeaten champs with 2 front door AI QF berths.
Qual Rd 1 (TMC) - Play 4 Rds to get TMC champ and 1 side door AI QF berth.
Initial TMC losers of 8, 4 and Prov SF 16 losers of 8, 4, 2 enter Qual Rds 2, 3, 4 with quantities of 16, 16, 10.
5 Rd 4 winner earn 5 back door QF berths.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2632 - 23/07/2015 21:59:28    1758244

Kilkenny get a bye into the hurling semi final so why not the Ulster champions in football?

mike03 (Limerick) - Posts: 2000 - 24/07/2015 08:17:20    1758246

Absolutely not!

A bye into the q final possibly.




Isn't the joy of the ulster championship that every team is beatable and vulnerable and any stage of the championship - just look at monaghan, got out of breffni with a 1 point win and went on to lift the title.

Leave it as it is. Other provinces' failings should be addressed but ulster have got it right.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5021 - 24/07/2015 09:39:11    1758269

I agree with an earlier poster in that I believe that while we use the provincial system the Ulster Champions should get treated the same as the champions of other provinces BUT likewise there should be no special treatment in the hurling.

Antrim hurling and indeed Down and Derry hurling has never been worse than since the passage to All Ireland hurling later stages has been removed.

Those in favour of the current system would argue that Munster and Leinster hurling deserve special treatment because of the strength of the teams involved. Those who believe in this approach in hurling though must support something similar for Ulster teams in football.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 24/07/2015 09:39:32    1758270

Offside_Rule sure antrim already get a bye in ulster. you can hardly expect another ;)

DoireCityFC (Derry) - Posts: 1580 - 24/07/2015 09:42:17    1758272

Offside_Rule sure antrim already get a bye in ulster. you can hardly expect another ;)

Course I do - if I had my way it would be a bye to the Final but that might be pushing it a wee bit...

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 24/07/2015 09:55:39    1758280

Agree with Naysayer re ourselves, Down and Derry going backwards a bit from the AI Hurling was changed. I had been thinking that a while back when there was a different topic on the Hurling Championship and had a look through our own standings in the league and subsequent performances in Championships and since the Ulster door was closed we have actually been in steady decline. Whether that is coincidence or an indirect result I don't know. However it would make sense that while all the Provincials got you to the semi stage that the lure of Croke Park in Aug/Sep for a young lad in these Counties increased competition within the Counties and hence helped the standard.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 24/07/2015 10:00:38    1758284

Theyll have you believe it was for the benefit of Ulster and Antrim Hurling though offside and was never about giving the 'elite' a second bite at the cherry!!!

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 24/07/2015 10:26:22    1758297

In my humble opinion it's the Ulster semi-finalists who should be seeded to have a bye from the preliminary round. Draw 2 of the 5 non-semi-finalists in the preliminary round. The quarter-final draw then should be an open draw. I disagree with the Leinster seeding that sees semi-finalists kept apart in the quarter-final draw of the following year.

Munster has less than 8 counties. For this reason the 2 finalists receive a bye to the semi-finals of the following year. They are not kept apart in the semi-final draw. Next year Kerry could be drawn against Cork in a semi-final with the other 4 being on the other side of the draw. Whichever of the 4 makes the final in such a scenario will benefit from the seeding in the following year. It's a fair seeding for all concerned.

I have suggested before that all counties should have 50% representation in the final 16 stage. It would entail early qualifier rounds being within the provinces and 1 Ulster county being in the Leinster qualifier section.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7888 - 24/07/2015 11:09:36    1758321

Yes as the other provinces are a banana set up

4KHDoneill (Derry) - Posts: 182 - 24/07/2015 11:12:31    1758323

Very difficult for an Ulster team to make progress in the AI series having played the preliminary round in Ulster. This year Donegal had to beat Tyrone, Armagh and Derry to reach an Ulster Final. After the loss to Monaghan they would need to beat Galway, Mayo and Kerry to reach an AI Final That would be 7 serious games to reach an AI Final whereas Mayo have Galway, Sligo, Donegal or Galway and Kerry to get to the same point. Similiar with Kerry but they did have a replay with Cork.

It's the preliminary round in Ulster that makes it more difficult but somebody must be looking out for Monaghan as they haven't played a preliminary round for 12 years. At the same time Cavan have played in the preliminary 5 times, Down 4, Donegal, Armagh and Tyrone 3 with no other county playing less than twice.

It needs to be fairer with 4 eights or 8 fours so that all teams have an equivalent number of games.

opa01 (Cavan) - Posts: 503 - 24/07/2015 11:25:14    1758334

omahant what the hell do you do for a living?

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 24/07/2015 12:12:23    1758359

Any team that wins a provincial having played 2 teams is hardly a good add for the provincial system, when it happens quite regularly in 2 provinces. I think that the best option would be to seed negatively the winning provincial teams the following year, away to the provincial runners up in the preliminary round. At least this way, you would get one new team in the finals every other year. I cant see any other way of making things fair, as there always will be stronger teams no mater what.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 24/07/2015 12:27:12    1758373

Personally. I think it's time to make the provincial and all Ireland championships seperate competitions. The provincials were first conceived when travel around the country was much tougher than now at the start of the 1900's. I have to say I agree with the gpa proposals except each group would have 6 games home and away. The more games the weaker counties play the better. The gpa proposals would remove the outrageous protectionism that exists for the likes of Kerry aand Dublin. The heinken cup format works well. That alone would put an end to this silly debate of which province is the best.

galwaydublin (Galway) - Posts: 226 - 24/07/2015 12:29:46    1758378

thats the way the draw goes opa01... cavan men still looking for reasons for their poor performances. get over it..

detruth (Monaghan) - Posts: 196 - 24/07/2015 12:44:44    1758386

Used to be each county had two years of preliminary round, then it was changed to open draw (was it 2008?). If it was fair every team would have two preliminary games every nine years. Looks like everyone else has this or more whereas Monaghan is the only county with less. Remind me where the DG of the GAA hails from and when he got in (was it 2008?).

opa01 (Cavan) - Posts: 503 - 24/07/2015 12:57:25    1758396

They changed the format of the U21 Football Club Championship here in Antrim last year to a system that has a Grading round of matches, open draw of all 28 teams, and then ran an A and a B Championship after this based on winners and losers. It meant that you had a few fixtures in the Grading round which were between teams who would have been seen as the top teams at this age group but this added to strength of the two separate competitions as there was a good mix of quality. As it happened, the A and B finals were made up of 4 teams who met each other in the Grading round but it meant that you have two competitions which although called an A and a B aren't necessarlily split based on the top 14 teams in the County in the A and the bottom in the B so are more A and B in name. It also guaranteed 2 Championship games for each team which is on a similar basis to the current AI set up where teams gets 2 chances.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 24/07/2015 13:02:43    1758399

The GAA already changed the championship to give all counties a second chance, that is more than any county who loses deserves. I would be ok with the pre 2001 system also as championship should be knockout.

suckvalleypaddy (Galway) - Posts: 1675 - 24/07/2015 13:09:23    1758404