Fabio, you have lost all credibility with that post. You are now in the spoofer bracket, not to be taken seriously. I am not 'insulting people's intelligence' I quoted the 2011 ESRI survey carried out with the Irish Sports Council. 8% of males in Dublin participate in soccer 1% participate in Gaelic football (the 8th ranked). The problem that you have is that you keep coming out with silly adjectives like 'massive' participation and 'huge' advantage but yet you have nothing to back it up. Do a little research bud and inform yourself! You remind me of themaster.

On your population = success point. If you have a look back to say the year 2000 and the AI finalists, let's assume that cities have the largest populations because they have. When you look back you will see Kerry, Tyrone, Armagh, Mayo, Donegal - cities only feature twice - Cork and Dublin. Surely with this 'huge' advantage we should be seeing total dominance from Cork, Galway, Limerick, Dublin, Down or do you want to further caveat your point. So is population any advantage yes. Is it a 'huge' advantage, of course not. There are many factors. Culture, tradition, underage structure (in Dublin's case) are all much bigger factors but sure don't let those get in the way of a good anti-Dub rant. Oh yeah and Dublin's huge support? Mayo brought more fans to an AI final a couple of years ago. Dublin are at their height and we should have demand 3 times that of capacity for a 1/4 final for example. Last year you could walk into Spar and buy a ticket in Dublin. Don't be misleading people bud. Also less of the attempts to rile people with terms like Dublin 'franchise', 'culchies'. These are your terms not mine. Like many Jackeens my Da was born a culchie although is a die hard Dub now. Must try harder lad.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 03/07/2015 09:15:55    1746797

Canal end Joxer ? That was for us culchie folk ) clear of to the other side !

TheRightStuff (Donegal) - Posts: 1688 - 03/07/2015 11:31:04    1746897

The population thing is over stated....now make no mistake it does help and is vital to have a healthy pool of players to pick from. Anybody that denies Leitrim's problem with a population, that same as the town of Athlone can compete with big counties is a miss match.

That said should Dublin not be winning nearly every All Ireland if that is the case? Wicklow, Cork, Kildare, Meath, Gawlay should all be winning All Ireland's with regular gusto...no?

Population is a factor but it is not the only factor.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11232 - 03/07/2015 11:37:38    1746904

TheRightStuff
County: Donegal
Posts: 737

1746897
Canal end Joxer ? That was for us culchie folk ) clear of to the other side !

------
Ha that's so true TRS. The Hill was a different beast back in the 70s and 80s. You could go there and risk your very life, go to the stands and be in with the posh culchies or head to the Canal end and take your chances with the few tax paying dubs there and fans of the enemy with peaked hats and chewing on a blade of straw. Health and Safety was decades away and how lives weren't lost in the 40 min crush to get out onto Jones road I will never know. Manys a man who was down low on the canal end came out with a waffle shaped sun burnt head on him. Oh those were the days.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 03/07/2015 13:54:21    1747011

its not an anti dub post..its simply stating that population does have a big role in success which you are trying to claim it doesnt....again you see everything as an anti dub post..i have defended the dubs on forums recently if u had a look....in what context are those figures in the survey?..its great to trot out figures without any context...how many people are doing those things at an adult level and competitively or how much of it is casual?..dublin do have big support..why else do they play their matches in croke park?..you yourself based the whole idea of dublin playing at home because nobody else can cater for such a large support base...your points again are weak and poorly taught out..you based a support base off the final...all those counties you mentioned arent small counties..i honestly dont get what you are trying to prove....it seems you will do anything to dismiss the notion that population has a role in success..i will speak to you how i want..you have showed a lack of respect for my posts so i will do so likewise...using terms like 'bud' helps nobody..dublin are one of the best supported teams in the country as they should be....so tell me joxer outside of soccer..in your opinion is gaa behind swimming, golf and rugby in dublin?...you really do insult peoples intelligence with comments like that and expect people to believe you...i am not saying population is everything obviously there is other factors but lets not pretend that it does play a big role in determining success....the counties you mention are regularly at the top table most years....again i ask stop being so offended when people say that population has a role..what is the big issue in saying that?..dublin are doing very well lately with what they have and fair play to them...its kildare and meaths own fault that they have fallen so far behind...the dublin minors this year were pretty ordinary but that seems to have been ignored by the doom brigade

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 03/07/2015 14:25:32    1747040

agreed yewtree but population should have you competing regularly every year compared to a leitrim longford or a westmeath...if you have the tradition in the sport and the sport is popular in the area..the dubs are a bit different in that they have a way bigger population compared to the rest of the country...they do seem to be doing better with what they have though then say cork for instance who have squandered a few years of underage success and gone back a little..people expecting the likes of leitrim and longford to compete with counties who have way bigger picks then them amongst other advantages just isnt realistic...there is a reason that its only the bigger counties who win the football every year

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 03/07/2015 14:29:58    1747047

Dublin are looking fairly good at the moment. They normally do early in the year. They have a tendency to slow down as the summer goes on and the competition gets stiffer. If all goes to form they should meet May in the semi and Kerry/Donegal if they win that.

Can they be beaten. Yes. The question is how.

Kerry had them beaten in 2011 and forgot to pull Mcmenaman down when he was going for goal. Truth is Kerry got a bit complacent and didn't think the Dubs had a fightback in them as they hadn't done a comeback for years.

Mayo beat them in 2012 by overpowering them with a running game either side of half time and then hanging on for the last 10 mins.

Mayo had the beating of them in 2013 using the same running game but didn't take their chances when they were on top in the 1st half and messed up their substitutions when Dublin ran out of players at the end. Kerry lost to them, just because the Dubs had a better bench to pull away as Kerry ran out of steam.

In 2014 Donegal used a "rope a dope" gameplan which worked a charm as it was aided by Dublins complacency on the day.

Can they be beaten in 2015 when their will be no complaceny? Absolutely. Where is their weakness? There are a few.

Dublin are suspect in two areas: high ball into a big full forward and when pressured on their own kickout.

They defend the high ball at midfield by putting massive pressure on the opposition which makes it hard to kick good ball in. If you can release your best kickers to play this ball you will have them in trouble.

If you can force them to kick long at the kickout they haven't the fielders to win their own ball.

If they can take the kick out short you need to pull your full forward line back to fill up the area between the 45's so they cannot run through the middle. Its the midfield runners who create the overlap which supplies the goal chances. Stop them scoring goals and you will beat them.

YOu also need to substitute players from early in the 2nd half so they are all up to speed for the last 15 min when the Dubs put the foot down. Dublin start putting subs in from 40 mins onwards and have all on with 10 to go. Dublin don't wait for a guy to be tired before they take him off. Every other county is putting on players with 15 mins to go when they realise the game is gone. You have to match their subs to stay the pace.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1109 - 03/07/2015 14:40:18    1747050

Sorry Fabio, it's difficult to dignify that with a response - short of getting out a flip chart and some crayons that his. I see you are still rowing back 'massive' and 'huge' have now become big. Look up the definition of ESRI to find your answer. If calling Dublin a 'franchise' and alluding to us calling non-dubs ' culchies' is not a slight against Dublin then I'm not sure what is. I've produced scorelines, ESRI reports and AI final stats to illustrate my points. You've brought........well nothing really. Keep digging that hole though!

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 03/07/2015 15:27:28    1747090

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 13358

1746310 Joxer
Agreed. Population = success myth busted. Too simplistic, many more demographic, cultural and even parochial factors at play. Watched the programme on Paidi last night. You can see why Kerry have been so successful over the years. They eat, sleep and breathe football down there as Kilkenny do with hurling. If each had half the population I still think they would have been as successful.

Sorry but the above is what is simplistic. Population has the potential to be a massive factor in success, saying otherwise is crazy. In your above example of Kerry; yes they have a very strong football culture, and the same goes for Kilkenny in the hurling - now imagine what it would be like down there if they had 1.3 million people on top of that. How many all Irelands would they have then? Similarly, if they only had 10,000 people - they would have far less all Irelands, and all the football/hurling culture in the world wouldn't change that.

That is the thing people keep ignoring - Dublin have developed their own culture around football over the last 10 years. They have lads turning down aussie rules contracts to stay and play for Dublin, that isn't even happening in Kerry these days. That, combined with the huge numbers and funding available has become something that is out of kilter with the rest of the teams in the competition. In the past, that culture wasn't there in dublin, so the difference in resources was manageable. Now it is there. What you are saying is the equivalent of adding 1 million extra kerrymen and trying to pretend it wouldnt make a difference. Of course it would.

The problem with this is people assume that everyone just wants Dublin out of contention, so their own team can win. That is too simplistic, and not accurate. When Dublin weren't anywhere to be seen, mayo weren't winning anyway. It is about what is best for the gaa. Functionally, what has occurred is Dublin have expanded their boundaries - not out the way, but up. They could easily field two county teams (probably more if they really went for it), capable of competing at, and probably winning at the elite level. I believe that this is the key to making the gaa great again. I also believe, that left alone, it could potentially ruin the gaa.

An excellent post and well articulated.

Seeing as Jimbodub has declared that you and I are the same person, and seeing as he is obviously the fountain of all knowing, and couldn't possibly be talking out of his nether regions, haha, I thought I should formally introduce myself.

So hello me, how am I today? lol

bryanadams (Kildare) - Posts: 733 - 04/07/2015 12:12:35    1747310

I have my doubts on Mayo beating Dublin this year. Tyrone, Derry and Armagh are on that side of the draw. It'll be interesting to see what challenge any of those 3 can put up. Can ye imagine a rematch of the Dublin v Derry league game in a quarter-final?

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7859 - 04/07/2015 14:00:24    1747347

Ky4sam2015
I don't agree with you about Donegal beating them IF we meet as imagine how up Dublin would be for the game after last year
If things work out as a lot of people on here think( but things might not work out like we think) we would probably have to play Kerry in the semi final so that in itself would be a big ask
Now the boys from the hills might not be upto beating Kerry so then we would have to depend on the Kingdom to stop Dublin
Then again there are still some good teams still in the race, even Cork/ maybe Monaghan or even Tyrone and add Mayo so Sam won't be that easy won
I know Mayo and Donegal have beaten Dublin over the last 3 years but it could be a lot more difficult to repeat the dose this year
Still as a Donegal man would love to play Dublin again this year or indeed Kerry for that matter ( now that could be a tasty game ( Kerry v Done) but before all that we must keep an eye on Monaghan as you might not know what they are planning for us , could be a repeat of 2013

Good man Sam some good points raised there but you need to stop down playing Donegal. If Donegal keep repeating the performance ye had against Armagh then I dont see anyone stopping ye along the way to the final against the mighty all conquering Dubs.
Would also like to see a repeat of last years final against Donegal in the semi final but might be a year or two early for us to reach the last four, the gooch still not back to his best and a few younger players getting bedded into the first team that is still in transition.

It will be a tough ask but Donegal really are the best bet to dethrone the All ireland... sorry i mean Leinster cakewalk champions.
Seems to have got into my head that the dubs havent lost a game in the last few years the way the Dublin fans are hyping them up on here. Only have won a mere two all irelands and could easily have been beaten on both occasions but for a bit of pure luck.
Dublin have a very easy run to the final this year. Home advantage for the dubs is worth 3 or 4 points before the ball is thrown in so its a big ask for anyone to beat them before the final. So Sam im sorry to tell you but your everyones last hope to stop the Dubs and spare us the usual year long self praise of being the best team that ever played the game.

KY4SAM2015 (Kerry) - Posts: 898 - 04/07/2015 16:36:33    1747397

Bryanadams - it is no surprise to see you agreeing with themaster. You are both from counties who have blown a lot of money and failed miserably to deliver silverware. It is therefore only human nature to turn on those who have managed to turn their fortunes around and look for excuses. This Dublin team has only been successful for the past 3 to 4 years. Take Dublin out of the equation over that period and do you believe that football would be in a better state in either county? I think not. If you read what themaster typed he actually proved my point, population does not equal success. There are a number of factors. In fact you can be very successful without population, Kerry and Kilkenny have shown this. Yes if Dublin had anything like the Gaelic football culture that Kerry have then they would be here to stay for some time but this isn't the case. Gaelic football is down the rankings in Dublin. Soccer is played by far more people and basketball is the fastest growing sport. The ethnicity and cultural diversity in the capital means that GAA popularity could slip back further I'm afraid. If the FAI bothered with the domestic soccer league I would say that soccer would be much stronger than it is now even. You cannot blame Dublin for being a Division 3 team, you have to look at the county board. Kildare minors would suggest that the county is on the up. If they can translate this to senior in the next couple of years and dethrone the Dubs I bet that there won't be a peep out of you on here about Dublin's huge advantages etc. as you will have no reason to point a finger at somebody else for blame.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 04/07/2015 16:40:20    1747399

I don't think Cork or Kerry would have beat Dublin yesterday . I'd fancy Kerry to run Dublin close however I wouldn't give Cork a hope against Dublin . Cork only done yesterday what they should always be doing : competing . Kerry / Dublin would be a nice quarters although if Kerry don't drop more bodies back , they would be in trouble .

TheRightStuff (Donegal) - Posts: 1688 - 06/07/2015 13:29:36    1748382