MuckrossHead
County: Donegal
Posts: 3502

1733745 93vintageyear
County: Derry
Posts: 269

We ran donegal close last year so it will give us something to build on.

There are rose tinted glasses & then there are rose tinted glasses......

No there is Donegal 1-11 v Derry 0-11, 2014 Ulster Championship QF.

That was close in fairness.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 07/06/2015 20:43:40    1733785

If supporters want Rolls Royce football then they are watching the wrong sport.

People can criticise all they want but as a Derry supporter I am extremely content that we won today. People can harp on about how awful both teams were and Derry will go no further in the championship, fair enough. We play in the only competitive province in Ireland and if anyone thinks they are going to get a Dublin v Longford score between two Ulster sides are clearly blinkered. It amuses me to read some Mmonaghan posters saying Derry have no forward line........hmmm looking back at the Cavan game, if you didn't have the talented McManus you boys would be in the qualifiers.

Derry played young Rodgers in FB today in what was his first competitive inter county match and equipped himself very well.

On the game itself, in my opinion Derry were totally on top in the first half without reflecting it on the scoreboard, however the awful performance of the referee contributed to a very stop\start match. The sending off in my view was very harsh. Derry should have pressed the game after the sending off but for some unknown reason they took their foot off the pedal and allowed Down back into the game.

To be honest, previous Derry teams would have crumbled and we would have lost that game today, however to win a game like that today will be mentally positive to the players.

I am going to finish by saying 'I don't think either Gallagher or McGeeney will be thinking Derry will be an easy touch in the semi-final'

Happy Derryman

OakGael (Derry) - Posts: 293 - 07/06/2015 20:47:11    1733788

M Lyster
County: Antrim
Posts: 296

1733763 Derry must be a very frustrating team for their fans to watch. They have possibly the strongest club football championship in Ireland and yet have struggled on the inter-county scene in the last 10 years. They should have won comfortably today, 4 points and a man up yet they nearly threw it away. They won't get past Donegal or Armagh on that display.

I can think of a few other teams in Ulster who a probably more frustrating for their fans to watch.

At least we have had the odd National League, Ulster Championship or All Ireland to cheer about in the last 22 years.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 07/06/2015 20:48:14    1733789

I listened to the radio on the way back from game and another ex donegal player echoed what i said earlier that we ran you close last year im not saying were world beaters but its a monkey of our back as we hadnt won an ulster championship game under mc ivor.It wasnt a great game but was a good result.

93vintageyear (Derry) - Posts: 301 - 07/06/2015 21:21:11    1733806

I can't believe the amount of people giving out about the ref. He took the advice of an umpire. Red card was umpires fault not the ref. All refs should take the advice of the other officials if they didn't see the incident. It was ulster championship, if you dont issue cards and use your whistle early the game will turn nasty (Donegal v Tyrone jumps to mind).

YOu can't make a silk purse from a sows ear. No ref could make that a good game. So he got a few calls wrong, you will get that when two defensive teams play and can't tackle very well.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1122 - 07/06/2015 21:32:02    1733812

seanfinn
County: Monaghan
Posts: 95

1733688
Mes.... according to you its a done deal. I assume you have logged on to the bookie of your choice and heaped as much spare cash as you have on this 'dead cert'.

I might put a tenner on a draw.

You are clutching at if and buts to make your point like league position et cetera but ultimately Armagh are better than their league position suggests. Derry played league one this year, had a league one final last year but they still had not won a championship game in Ulster for four years. I watched these guys go at it last year in the AA QF before you jackeens hammered us. Donegal were lucky to get past them.

Of course Donegal, if they play to their best will win, that's obvious. If they play their best against any side they are going to win. If Donegal continually played at their best they would have won every single game in the last three years. The reality is, they are much more susceptible to the upsetting result playing in Armagh in an Ulster Championship than Dublin are in the leinster against anyone.

Our championship is the only fully functional open one of the lot for this reason. Teams can be caught cold and punished. I haven't seen that in Leinster in for a few years.

Look at the game today. Poor enough from both sides and it could have gone either way. I still would not use that as a yardstick for either side. Derry will have taken the positives from that and will present a tough assignment for Donegal.....or Armagh (imo)

Donegal have been caught cold in Ulster and punished once since 2010. Dublin have been caught cold in Leinster and punished once since 2009. Not that the Leinster Champo has anything to do with our discussion here but you did bring it up.

Armagh were in Division 3 this year because they deserved to be.

Donegal were almost caught cold by Armagh in last year's quarter final because they had their eyes firmly set on the Dubs in the semis but I doubt they'll make the same mistake this year.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13717 - 07/06/2015 21:38:23    1733813

If Donegal beat Armagh as most expect, I couldn't see Derry stopping them in the semi-final. If however Armagh shock Donegal and win that, then Derry-Armagh will be a tight game and it wouldn't be easy called.

They may have went different directions in their respective leagues, but fact is that Derry have been playing Division 1 football and Armagh Division 3. Armagh are improving alright, but I mustn't be seeing what other people are when they're predicting big things for them this year. Is it all based on the Donegal game last year? Derry weren't great today in a poor game but they got the win and will surely improve. I wouldn't agree with people saying they'll be no match for Donegal/Armagh, as if those two teams are at the same level right now. The safe bet is for Donegal to reach the final, but if Armagh can spring a surprise there then they're by no means one foot in the final.

patk (Monaghan) - Posts: 936 - 07/06/2015 21:58:10    1733832

Poor enough game IMO but Derry will improve significantly. They looked very nervous and I think the poor championship record in recent years weighed heavy on their minds. They are a much better team than what they showed yesterday and with the confidence of a win they will be tough opposition for Armagh / Donegal.

The reason I thought it a poor game was down to the poor skills of both teams and especially the shooting. We see plenty of wides in games, most are just narrowly wide but yesterday there was at least 10 wides that were 10 yards wide. Down were the main culprits and I can't help thinking that if Benny Coulter or a player of his capability was playing they would have won that game.

Derry will take a lot of positives from the game despite playing poorly and had good performances from Holly, Skinner and Lynch. I hope we get a crack at them but for now all focus for us is on Sunday in Armagh,

Tir Conaill Abu (Donegal) - Posts: 1671 - 08/06/2015 09:13:02    1733847

Congrats to Derry and good luck for the rest of the Ulster Championship.

Definitely a match that got away for Down in the second half even after
a ludicrous sending off decision by the referee.Was impressed by Down's
resilence and tremendous turn overs of possession especially in the second
half, but the shooting yesterday was not up to scratch,in many instances wild.

Derry had wilted in the second half and Down's wayward shooting let them off
the hook.I would compliment the Derry full back line as they did make it very
difficult to make chances but when the chances were there some the shots
were very poor.In many respects a mirror image of the Donegal match two
years ago.Down won many of the battles around the pitch but poor shooting
meant they lost the war.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1617 - 08/06/2015 09:54:55    1733877

Well done to Derry on their win, they badly needed a championship win, if only for the confidence value. It was such a close game it was difficult to know who was going to win coming near the end. The momentum seemed to be with Down but somehow Derry managed to get the final score. Both teams seemed to struggle to transition from defence to attack which is the key component if you are going to be successful playing the blanket defence. Eoin Bradley and Mark Lynch are top class and proved the difference.

This game could give Derry an enormous lift and I certainly wouldn't be as dismissive of them as some posters. If you look at Armagh last year, they didn't look great and all of sudden they got on a run and nearly beat Donegal. Derry have some smashing players, they defend well, have a good midfield (Holly was great yesterday) and 2 top forwards in Lynch and Bradley. They just needed a confidence boost of a championship win and I think they will play better next day out.

JimTheLegend (Donegal) - Posts: 247 - 08/06/2015 10:10:23    1733891

Bad day for the stadium announcer at Celtic Park yesterday!!!Initially announced there
would be 4 minutes of injury time and every one thought there was lots of time for
an equaliser then after another 30-40seconds suddenly declared there was only 2 mins
of injury time!!!Also declared that Mark Poland had been subbed for Malachy Magee when
in fact it was a Derry substitution.

A very healthy crowd at the match yesterday.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1617 - 08/06/2015 10:41:58    1733910

Well done to Derry yesterday, and food luck vs Donegal/Armagh in the semi final.

Obviously I'm very disappointed with the outcome of yesterdays game. I didn't think it was a red card, and due to the tight nature of the the match, I have no doubt the sending off effected the outcome of the result. It's not fair on the Down team, and it's not fair on Derry either. They won the match, their supporters will be delighted, and yet here we are AGAIN talking about the referee. I personally cannot comprehend why umpires are given the authority to dictate decisions such as yesterday's? Surely video replays would provide more accurate evidence? And thus we would have these ridiculous decisions ruin games. County players up and down the country shed blood, sweat and tears in the months leading up to the championship, and for an umpire (who isn't an official referee, but just the referees friends), to have the authority to dictate refereeing matters, I find it difficult to accept.

With that said, we shot ourselves in the foot with our poor shot selection. Derry without Ferghal Doc and Eoin Bradley would be a very average team and I can't see Donegal having too many issues disposing of them. If Armagh beat Donegal, then Derry would have a chance. Down aren't up to much this season, I've said it all along, we are too small, and lack forward power. We might win one or two games in the back door, but that's the height of it.

MourneArmy (Down) - Posts: 1787 - 08/06/2015 11:04:09    1733936

08/06/2015 10:41:58
REDANDBLACK30
County: Down
Posts: 606

1733910
Bad day for the stadium announcer at Celtic Park yesterday!!!Initially announced there
would be 4 minutes of injury time and every one thought there was lots of time for
an equaliser then after another 30-40seconds suddenly declared there was only 2 mins
of injury time!!!Also declared that Mark Poland had been subbed for Malachy Magee when
in fact it was a Derry substitution.

A very healthy crowd at the match yesterday.


I thought this was unacceptable. After the winning free was put over the bar (40 seconds into injury time), it was announced that 4 minutes had been added on. The Down supported reacted to this with loud cheers, and the Down platyers reacted to this with patient build up play, knowing they had plenty of time to work the equalising score. Around 30 seconds later, and with less than a minute left to play in injury time, it was then announced that 2 minutes had actually been added on. Down immediately launched an aimless high ball into the forward line in their next attack as a result. In such an important game, it was a ridiculous mistake to make.

It was also a nuisance that their was no time on the scoreboard. Apart from that Celtic Park was in pristine condition. Well done to the ground staff. The pitch was in immaculate condition, considering the amount of rain over the last number of weeks.

MourneArmy (Down) - Posts: 1787 - 08/06/2015 11:24:20    1733957

Donegal have been caught cold in Ulster and punished once since 2010. Dublin have been caught cold in Leinster and punished once since 2009. Not that the Leinster Champo has anything to do with our discussion here but you did bring it up.

Armagh were in Division 3 this year because they deserved to be.

Donegal were almost caught cold by Armagh in last year's quarter final because they had their eyes firmly set on the Dubs in the semis but I doubt they'll make the same mistake this year

Selective stats is it? I can do that too. Dublin have won 9 out of the 10 leinster titles. Donegal have won 3 out of the 10 ulster titles. Sure both provinces are just as competitive as each other with no massive gulf in class between the top team and the rest.....In 2013 Monaghan has just played division 3 football. (That's the one blip for Donegal I guess?) Back to back relegation had us down there and it didn't really reflect where we were at....same with the current apple eaters.

Derry and Down looked like two poor sides yesterday and that was how the game went down ultimately. Both sides, I think, are better than that. Just like I think Armagh might prove to be much better than you are giving them credit for. I doubt there is a single Donegal fan who would dismiss their prospects the same way you have.

Even the bookies don't really see it like that.

when was the last time a favoured team in the Ulster championship went in with odds of 1/20 for the win?

seanfinn (Monaghan) - Posts: 360 - 08/06/2015 13:50:44    1734076

MourneArmy
County: Down
Posts: 1637

1733936 Well done to Derry yesterday, and food luck vs Donegal/Armagh in the semi final.

With that said, we shot ourselves in the foot with our poor shot selection. Derry without Ferghal Doc and Eoin Bradley would be a very average team and I can't see Donegal having too many issues disposing of them. If Armagh beat Donegal, then Derry would have a chance. Down aren't up to much this season, I've said it all along, we are too small, and lack forward power. We might win one or two games in the back door, but that's the height of it.
08/06/2015 11:24:20

I thought Brendan Rodgers had a great debut at full back, and Sean Leo McGoldrick was on fire on the first half linking the play. Definitely Mark Lynch, Eoin Bradley and Fergal Doherty were superb, but I thought Niall Holly had a very good game. With Kielt and O'Boyle on the bench, there is definitely more to Derry than we possibly seen yesterday.

I thought the sending off actually turned the game in Down's favour, as up until that point, Derry were the better team in my opinion. I have seen that happen many times, where a sending off can actually spur a team on. Overall, I don't think either side really clicked yesterday and are getting unfair flack as a result.

Down will likely run into another Ulster side in the Qualifiers, such as Tyrone, Donegal or Armagh. I wouldn't rule out the possibility of Down reaching the AI QF stage, but I think Tyrone will be hard to cope with this year in the Qualifiers. In fact I rank Tyrone above Armagh and Monaghan, and think they will have a surprising run this summer.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 08/06/2015 18:36:11    1734263

Just watched the full coverage of the end of yesterday's match on the RTE player.

Although the commentators & RTE coverage are aware that its 2 minutes you can clearly hear the announcer in the ground states (clearly) that 4 minutes are to be played just as Bradley knocks over the last score on 70 minutes.

Down work it up the field and, with about 1m 45s played, the announcer then states (clearly) that 2 minutes additional time will be played.

In those circumstances how would any player know that its not 2 minutes but actually 15 seconds left.

It's all clearly on record at http://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/10428812/

If that's not clear grounds for an appeal I don't know what would be.

Call me paranoid but it's interesting to note that;

1. The clock at the ground, although in place, was never switched on
2. Our most effective forward was told he was being substituted half way through the second half.
3 The wrong amount of extra time was announced just as Derry went into a 1 point lead.


Thats a lot of "mistakes" right there.

spiritof1991 (Down) - Posts: 693 - 08/06/2015 18:49:04    1734269

Say Donegal beat Armagh this weekend. I would fear for Derry vs Donegal mainly on the basis that when Down got on top during the second half they lacked leadership. Down looked hungrier. Derry ran into tackles, gave the ball away cheaply and looked tired/lazy under the tackle resulting in giving away soft freses. Bear in mind, this is a Down side who are not the finished article, our shooting effectively lost us the match. If we were capable of controlling large swathes of the second half with 14 men away to Derry. Then it doesn't bode well for them vs a Donegal side who always perform on the big occasion. Derry are also too reliant on Eoin Bradley for scores. Unlike Down, Donegal are more than capable of reducing Bradley's effectiveness, and if he gets more than 0-2 from play, then he will be doing very well. Mark Lynch goes missing when it matters most games. So then where do Derry get their scores from? Yes, Derry will improve on yesterday's performance. But will they improve enough to beat Donegal? I don't think so.

Brendan Rogers was brilliant yesterday considering it was his senior county debut and it was given the task of marking Mark Poland. He done an excellent job and has a bright future ahead of him certainly.

MourneArmy (Down) - Posts: 1787 - 08/06/2015 18:56:50    1734277

Down will have a much greater chance of success if Martin Clarke comes back next year.The reason
for the great run in 2010 was Clarke was a good foil for Poland to pull the strings.Clarke also
contribruted lots of scores.Now Poland comes in for serious treatment yesterday and also v Tyrone
last year.With Clarke and Poland in the ranks the opposition would have double the worry.Although
Poland still drew frees yesterday, Clarke coming back would be a major help to him and Down.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1617 - 08/06/2015 19:25:07    1734291

MourneArmy
County: Down
Posts: 1638

1734277 Say Donegal beat Armagh this weekend. I would fear for Derry vs Donegal mainly on the basis that when Down got on top during the second half they lacked leadership. Down looked hungrier. Derry ran into tackles, gave the ball away cheaply and looked tired/lazy under the tackle resulting in giving away soft freses. Bear in mind, this is a Down side who are not the finished article, our shooting effectively lost us the match. If we were capable of controlling large swathes of the second half with 14 men away to Derry. Then it doesn't bode well for them vs a Donegal side who always perform on the big occasion. Derry are also too reliant on Eoin Bradley for scores. Unlike Down, Donegal are more than capable of reducing Bradley's effectiveness, and if he gets more than 0-2 from play, then he will be doing very well. Mark Lynch goes missing when it matters most games. So then where do Derry get their scores from? Yes, Derry will improve on yesterday's performance. But will they improve enough to beat Donegal? I don't think so.

I agree that Derry would definitely struggle a lot more against Donegal,

Donegal generally keep opposing full forwards very quiet and have very strong full forwards themselves. If you put your best markers on McBrearty or Murphy, then they have a host of other players who will pick up the scoring slack. W

Armagh are a tough outfit under McGeeney, defensively very solid and strong in the tackle. While they can cause any team problems, I don't see them beating a Dublin, Mayo or Kerry this year in Croke Park. I think they are too rigid to succeed in the All Ireland series against the very top sides, although they will cause problems in Ulster. In time they may develop into a less rigid team, but they aren't right now.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 08/06/2015 19:58:13    1734309

To be fair to Derry, although they fell over the line yesterday it is possible to improve
game to game.I doubt many who saw Down defeat Armagh by 2 points in a scrappy
game in the Marshes in 1991 would have forecast that Down would go on to
become Ulster and All Ireland Champions.

While the latter is unrealistic the former is possible.Every team in Ulster is beatable.
A drastic improvement will be needed though.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1617 - 08/06/2015 21:25:37    1734363