partner is from meath and now playing football in the north, said its common to slate ulster football and he couldnt believe it was just the smae as home, he expected to be verbally abused cynically fouled and beaten by horrible men with horrible high pitched accents. which is why he didnt play for 2 years, hes now doing well for the club and delighted he moved on. if anything, he now argues the south is worse and the negativity is blatant. i dont know but thats pretty clear cut to me

offtheground1 (Down) - Posts: 128 - 20/05/2015 12:37:20    1726012

I did find this one in the Times:

Yet the worst part of Sunday's defeat in Ballybofey, he says, was the level of sledging that was going on - from both sides - something Cavanagh clearly isn't comfortable with:

"There's no doubting you're going to get that now, the higher the level you go, and the more local rivalries you get. Cavan play Monaghan this weekend, and I've no doubt it'll be rife there as well . . .

"Players probably did overstep the mark to a certain extent. You just have to be thick -skinned. At times it can be quite personal. You just have to accept it. I've said it before, it can be very, very personal and I know there were certain players . . that have been through tough times, and they were getting a fair bit of personal abuse."

Indeed Cavanagh hardly needed to identify one of those team-mates as Cathal McCarron, who rejoined the Tyrone panel this year after taking time out due to his gambling addictions. But part of the problem and worry with sledging, he says, is that it's so difficult to police.

"It's nearly impossible," he says. "I can look that way (Cavanagh looks away to the side), call you a name, say something about your family, your child, and no one will ever know. And look, it happens on both sides.

"I'm sure Michael Murphy got chatted to, when he was hitting free kicks. I got chatted to whenever I was hitting free kicks. It's disappointing to see, and I don't know how you can stop somebody whispering in somebody's ear . . .

"And there is so much talk now on mental health of players, and all that, and there are players in dark places. You would hope that it doesn't come to the stage that some player tries to do something silly, or something like that, if he has been abused, or has had a bad game, and people have really gotten on his case."

"An awful lot of players are at fault, but days like Sunday, it does happen a wee bit more than normal, and it does get out of control a wee bit. And it is something the GAA could take a look at overall and try and improve it. Whenever it gets deeper down into family history, girlfriends and wives, it gets a bit malicious at that stage."

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 20/05/2015 12:39:13    1726016

Some of the posters from Ulster here seem to have a chip on their shoulder and cannot take any legitimate criticism of the football played in the province or any criticism of the teams either.It always then seems to invlove them slagging off the other provinces rather than actually dealing with the legitmate criticisms that might be made.

uibhfhaili1986 (Offaly) - Posts: 1296 - 20/05/2015 12:44:25    1726017

And this from todays Times.

link

brendtheredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 10897 - 20/05/2015 12:53:50    1726023

Some of the posters from Ulster here seem to have a chip on their shoulder and cannot take any legitimate criticism of the football played in the province or any criticism of the teams either.It always then seems to invlove them slagging off the other provinces rather than actually dealing with the legitmate criticisms that might be made.

Again it isnt about province v province. I dont tar each province with the same brush including my own. you cant say 9, 5 or even 2 counties are the same

DoireCityFC (Derry) - Posts: 1580 - 20/05/2015 13:14:05    1726040

Naysayer what are you not sure was the case? That Tipperary posters were mocked on here for raising the issue of sledging after the U-21 game? It was only 2 weeks ago, its not that hard to remember. Ya Tipp made an issue of it as they felt Tyrone had gone to great lengths to find out very personal information about Tipp players families (I am not sure if this is true but it is what some Tipp posters were claiming). Cavanagh says he worries what impact this type of malicious stuff may have on players with mental health issues, yet you seem to be suggesting Tipperary should have shut up and not mentioned it. Surely if this type of thing is happening it should be spoken about and dealt with, like Tipperary and Cavanagh are doing, not denied like some prominent managers and posters on here were doing?

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 20/05/2015 14:42:31    1726097

Soma you said

'essmac after the U-21 final a couple of weeks ago Tipperary posters on here who complained about the sledging done by Tyrone players were mocked by many Ulster posters as bad losers, cry-babies, jealous of northerners, swallowing the lies of the southern media etc. 2 weeks later Sean Cavanagh comes out and says the level of sledging in the Donegal-Tyrone game was disgraceful and it has to be stopped, and most Ulster posters agree with him. How do you explain this sudden change in attitudes? '

I am not so sure Sean Cavanagh said those words and as explained I am not so sure that most Ulster Posters have had a sudden change of heart.

For the avoidance of doubt I believe that Tipp made an issue at the end of the game because they had lost the match and emotions were running high (personal opinion but I am sure others probably agree - losing is not nice). That is not to say there is not an issue and that is also not to say that it is something that referees etc need to decide how they are going to deal with it but this is not something that suddenly feel out of the sky the day or the U21 final either. It is also not to say that in the meantime players roll their sleeves up and get on with it as they have always done and be thick-skinned (as Sean Cavanagh actually did say).

Read what I am saying again - for you benefit I have even copied it below:

'Soma not sure that is the case - many were saying that this has always been in the game to a degree and most of us have come across it from an early age and did not let it affect us too much as a result.

Certainly you may be describing some posters but many felt that after the U21 final that this sledging was suddenly being jumped upon because Tipp had made an issue out of it. Since Tipp made an issue out of it and the resultant miles it got from media, forums etc there was going to be more scrutiny on it especially in a game involving Tyrone.

As such Cavanagh was asked the direct question and gave the direct answer that it is unsavoury - as it is - no-one denies this but Cavanagh also said you just have to be thick-skinned - as many people have said since this new buzzword has appeared.'

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 20/05/2015 15:07:41    1726113

I think your post reflects the overly defensive attitude some ulster posters take on here Naysayer. I just don't understand why you think Tipperary shouldn't be allowed to raise the increasingly personal sledging as a malicious part of the game that needs to be stopped, but its fine for Sean Cavanagh to do it. I certainly haven't seen any posters on here describe Cavanagh as a sore loser after Sunday, cry-baby etc. Tipperary football has suffered more than their share of defeats, I doubt this was the reason they raised the issue, but more likely because it was of a level they had never seen before and they don't believe it has any place in the game. Interestingly Cavanagh says both sets of players were at fault on Sunday but it is up to the GAA to try and deal with it - how about the players and management dealing with it by having a bit of pride in themselves and the jersey they wear and not carrying on in such a way.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 20/05/2015 15:24:38    1726124

Soma you are full of the brown stuff - you are reading posts and coming up with your own interpretation, you are saying posters said things that they did not and you are quoting Sean Cavanagh on things he did not say - Cavanagh is probably not being described as a sore loser as he also said "There was plenty of off-the-ball stuff taking place on Sunday. And people got away with things that they should not have got away with. But it was the same from both sides. It was that type of hot-tempered, win at all costs Ulster Championship tie so there's no sense in pointing fingers,"

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 20/05/2015 15:47:58    1726137

Naysayer would you have any idea who posted this in the thread on the U-21 final??
"I am only speaking from experience and the point I am making is that sledging might affect a 12 yr old but even by the time guys are in their late teens they are well used to this and it is not a factor or at least I would be very surprised if it was a factor. But main point is for young adults to be crying about sledging is almost incredible in my opinion."
Can you also tell me why you think it is wrong for Tipperary to complain about sledging, but you haven't had a go at Cavanagh for describing it as malicious and something the GAA needs to look at? If it only affects 12 years olds Id also wonder why both sets of players put so much time and effort into it on Sunday?
This is just a typical example of someone from within Ulster being able to criticise the game there, but anyone from outside who makes the same point is immediately jumped on. Sidebottom was overly critical of the game on Sunday in my view on BBC, and overstated what happened at halftime, yet I have seen no Ulster poster complain about him. Had someone on RTE done the same there would be endless complaints.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 20/05/2015 16:17:20    1726155

Soma I am going to try and keep this very simple for your sake.

Tipp cried about the sledging immediately off the back of defeat. Cavanagh commented on it when asked by journalists, he was not crying about it before being asked direct questions. Can you see the difference?

Also you say that it must be a factor if the teams were at it. I woul d say that the prime target did not looked too bothered as he rattled over the winning points. Maybe if he was a 12yr old he might not have won the game for Donegal in the face of verbals.

Not sure why you quote me from another thread but since yet are so good at finding quotes why don't you provide the link to the quotes you attributed to Cavanagh that Offside requested.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 20/05/2015 17:37:05    1726198

Naysayer your points are laughable. You say it is alright for Cavanagh to speak about sledging because a journalist asked him, but Tipperary should have mentioned nothing about it happening to their own lads, some 19, despite Cavanagh talking about the worries he has of the mental effect it has on more vulnerable players.
And you really believe that Harte and Gallagher are happy for their players to spend much of the game sledging, distracting their own focus from the game, despite it being something that would only affect 12 year olds? Id suggest you have little idea of what actually gets said, and the length teams to go to find out very personal information.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 20/05/2015 18:15:53    1726218

The three monkeys must be from up your way Naysayer.

Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 20/05/2015 18:20:01    1726221

lol which 3 monkeys in particular?

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 20/05/2015 19:01:43    1726239

Soma I thought I had spelt it out for you but this is the last attempt.

As far as I can see Tipp were acting like sore losers. These things are often about timing and context. Cavanagh was on the losing team but never brought this up until asked. Tip were making issue of this from as soon as the game ended. The context is very different in each case. You would almost have thought Tip were blaming defeat on this. Cavanah was more taking the line that you develop thick skin, pretty much what I have been saying.

I don't think too many have been saying verbals are cool. You seem to think me and others condone verbals, I do not but I am big enough now not to let them worry me. Part of growing up is learning how to handle different people, situations etc and in fairness Murphy answered in the best possible way.

Not sure where I said Gallagher and Harte were happy about this but I am sure you will find that quote when you find the quotes you attributed to Cavanagh that Offside requested.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 20/05/2015 19:15:10    1726241

One heard nothing ,one seen nothing and the other was saying nothing.
Everything was just fine.

Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 20/05/2015 19:23:55    1726244

Naysayer surely you will agree that Gallagher and Harte cover every minor detail in the run up to a game. Now either you believe that Harte and Gallagher instruct their players not to continue to sledge because all their opponents are older than 12 but the players ignore these instructions, or they believe sledging has an affect on their opponents and are happy for lads like McMahon, Cavanagh, McHugh , McGees etc to carry on with it. Which do you believe is true - considering you have previously said that sledging only affects 12 year olds I presume you are of the view that all these players are going against their managers instructions? Dubh Linns 3 monkeys comparison suits ya very well.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 20/05/2015 20:44:05    1726273

Ha I was thinking a better analogy for our province would be the witch in Monty Pythons Holy Grail.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 20/05/2015 21:23:15    1726282

Ha I was thinking a better analogy for our province would be the witch in Monty Pythons Holy Grail.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 20/05/2015 21:36:36    1726289

Mmmmm, I like the twelve angry men myself. Maybe just one voice of reason could turn things around.

Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 20/05/2015 21:52:34    1726300