Very pertinent Offside_Rule I wonder what wee Luke would think if he were alive today.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 19/05/2015 21:00:19    1725829

There was a young man from the north.
No,no ,won't go there.

Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 19/05/2015 21:08:52    1725835

Go ahead Dubh_linn - Offside has injected some intelligent wit - more of the same I say then we can all respect the clever wit rather than getting too bogged down in the topic.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 19/05/2015 21:34:41    1725846

A bit more of it on here wouldn't go a miss all right Naysayer.
This lot can get very dour sometimes.
I've got the oul writers block at the minute. I'll have to retire to my place of serenity and let the mists clear.
No , that's not the bog.

Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 19/05/2015 21:44:32    1725854

Well it mightn't be as bad if there wasn't so much whataboutery and denials going on.
For instance, one poster told me that ulster was now cynical simply because it was so competitive. But Ulster's most competitive period was 1991-1996. 4 all Irelands, 3 different teams and 4 different provincial winners. No cynical play and no sledging in that period. So what is this excuse about it being down to competitiveness?

You reference the point about galway. Yet a galway poster has come on and completely slated their own team for that. Will you be doing that about your own team? Therein lies your answer. It isn't about being cynical, it is about being cynical and then pretending it is something else, or it is someone elses fault, or that you are actually the victim of a big conspiracy. Then when a 'southern team' do it you are all over it. How come that isn't a big conspiracy too?

Master.......... I was having a dig at Liam but fair play to you for taking the bait, listen the reality of it is that all the top teams are cynical and when they collide in ulster it takes on a world of its own..... Would you agree that Mayo are up their as one of the most cynical teams in the country! Maybe if you did the above post might carry some weight

ben1977 (Donegal) - Posts: 364 - 19/05/2015 21:56:53    1725865

hhhmmmmm

There is defo an anti Ulster slant from some people around the place alright. I don't know if anyone can deny that.

Just like there is an anti Dub slant from people as well. Just check out the reaction anytime Dublin win a game! Or after any Ulster Championship game for that!

However I do think the successful Ulster counties of the past and present have gotten a lot of credit, well deserved of course, but there is no denying they've taken a lot of flak too.

There's maybe a sensitivity there as well, that gets exploited within the criticism I feel. The all for one element of Ulster counties probably adds to the fire too, in that people treat it like one big county and aim criticism, unfairly a lot of the time, and an entire province rather than maybe one county. This works both ways of course and is similar on threads here, and in general, to how the Dubs get treated.

It has a lot to do with success. And Kerry do get this too I think, although not to the same extent maybe. Ulster, as a province, has been quite successful in the last 25 years and people love nothing more than to gripe at success, particularly if it is done in any type of new way!

At least there is a difference with the Dubs, in that we get it in the neck even when we're not even successful!

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13718 - 20/05/2015 08:30:56    1725871

I think a well that this tendancy to look back with rose tinted glasses is a bit off the mark.

The single biggest chance from the 90's or any other period is the advent of social media. Now we are not left to the words written in newspapers or coming out of pundits mouths. For better or worse everyone has a platform to call it as they see it or as they believe it to be having been influenced by traditional media, friends, colleagues etc.

I reckon had we got social media in the 90's there would be a different memory of the goings on in the heat of battle of championship football.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 20/05/2015 08:42:16    1725876

royaldunne

I believe your right, most fans want their county to win, to play well etc etc If they are not in an All-Ireland final you tend to watch as a pure neutral and root for the team that you feel wiinning it would have a bigger impact.

But say that truly abysmal match Dublin v Derry - NO ONE in their right mind could defend any aspect of that at all. No neutral could watch that and feel good about the game. Yet when you say that you get all these arguments thrown up that don't really acknowledge that, some even glory and champion it. I watched Tyrone and Donegal and I enjoyed it, there was skill, excitement, passion and great team play. But there are other elements that are not nice and of course other counties throughout Ireland indulge in it too, but their fans don't particularly like and they will probably say so. But with Ulster posters it seems its all too personal, us and them etc etc

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4897 - 20/05/2015 08:59:10    1725882

I love a bit of friendly banter and all. The thing that bothers me and im use a few will agree is that when the 'ulster football' tag is used it is against 9 counties. Dont say ulster. Mention the teams you are referring to. Derry are not donegal, antrim are not down etc.

Would kerry, dublin, cork and meath fans be happy if we called your style of play southern football? Each county on this island plays as their own team, sure some are similar but none are the same.

DoireCityFC (Derry) - Posts: 1580 - 20/05/2015 09:39:32    1725906

I still recall my surprise when even the Sunday Business Post - a financial newspaper with generally poor / limited coverage of sport - carried a full-page spread about Cavanagh's take down of McManus a week or so after that incident. It'd be as if a yellow card for Suarez was being talked about in the Financial Times a week later. In others of that same weekend's quarter finals, another midfielder was red-carded and another very well-known Southern Div 1 player up-ended two opponents by catching their ankles and tripping them up. He received a yellow card for the second incident; the first incident apparently was unseen by the referee. This was in the same category of physically harmless but 'game-stopping' foul as Cavanagh's. Yet, despite the foregoing facts, in the following days, all the media focus was on Cavanagh. How was that anything other than bias? How can you have several people committing the same type of fouls on the same weekend but only one of them gets publicly pilloried? On that occasion, the Southern media, not for the first time, displayed a negative fixation with Tyrone football that almost merits collective psychiatric intervention.

When Tyrone won the U21 recently, the losing county's manager accused Tyrone of cynical play etc. This was despite neither team being cynical in what was atrocious weather for football and despite a stand-out act of red-cardable cynical play in that game - repeat stamping - being carried out by one of his own lads. However, what a losing manager selects to put out in a moment of disappointment is neither here nor there. What was instructive was how the Southern media uncritically adopted the narrative set by the losing manager - the dominant message in the coverage was all about the losing team's sense of outrage and Tyrone's 'streetwise' cynicism. A casual reader, noticing the Irish Times' headline the following day, would have been forgiven for thinking that the 'dirty Nordies had cheated their way to a win against innocent Southern choirboys'.

Last weekend, McMahon dragged Murphy all over the pitch and this has attracted much critical comment. Yet it was similar to Aidan O'Mahony's tactics on Murphy which generally went un-remarked.

And, yes, despite losing to them for 4 or 5 years now, I'm a big fan of Donegal football (friendly people, great football - the kind we'd like to play if we were good enough - and the nicest county in Ireland despite the bungalows!) and will be cheering them on. Every time Donegal beat Tyrone, they do so fair and square without any assistance from refs and they take plenty of petty media flak themselves, so in the likely event that Tyrone do nothing this year again, I'll be over in Killybegs as usual and praying for a Donegal win against whatever purist Southern team has to 'lower themselves to be on the same pitch as them'.

essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1141 - 20/05/2015 10:31:41    1725937

There are pluses and minuses for being in ulster. Pluses are the level of raw competition. The closeness of the top teams in terms of quality. The ability of a division 3 team to raise their game to give a division 1 team a real match. The open draw. The longer season for spectators.

The minuses are obvious.

I would say that it is more common sense than anything else to be critical of sledging for instance.

The easy way out for teams is to get your revenge in first in this department, ie to blame the oposition for behavior from a previous fixture and then carry it on into the next game to justify your own use of it. Viscous cycles have to be stopped somehow. It is not down to players, but officials. I watched the sunday game replay of the game on sunday, and thought that the ref did in fact lay down a marker early. The next step is a black card early. .This might be the only language players understand.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 20/05/2015 10:52:44    1725947

I think its time for the border to be redrawn again, checkpoints and all.

Independence for the Fourth Green Field!

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 20/05/2015 10:53:50    1725948

essmac
Last weekend, McMahon dragged Murphy all over the pitch and this has attracted much critical comment. Yet it was similar to Aidan O'Mahony's tactics on Murphy which generally went un-remarked.

Here is the thing though, no it didn't. It was remarked on, comparisons were even made throughout the tyrone-donegal match. There wasn't a big kerfuffle because nobody tried to defend him, denied it happened, or tried to say someone else done it too. They just accepted it and moved on. If you done the same, McMahon would be forgotten too.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 20/05/2015 10:54:31    1725949

That's the thing essmac and I think it is totally missed by a lot of people here. We in Ulster do not believe that Ulster teams are complete saints, we do not believe that there is no cynicism in the play of Ulster teams, we do not believe that Ulster teams will not use any advantage that they can get to win especially when it is a tight contest, we do not deny that Ulster teams are tactically astute and will set up in what the purists see as a more defensive way of playing the game and we do not believe that games that descend into wars of attrition are the best way to watch a contest develop.

But what we would like is for this constant hounding of Ulster football to ease off. Ulster posters here get accused of being defensive and clanny but is it any wonder when we are attacked at every given opportunity. AND we could accept these attacks if we believed that they were justified and more importantly proportionate but when we watch game after game outside Ulster with all of the same facets that the hysteria is created about Ulster football with barely so much of a mention then is it any wonder we despair.

All we are really asking for is a level playing field when it comes to reporting and the media have the biggest influence in all of this - if you throw enough muck some of it will stick and there has been a hell of a lot of muck thrown for a number of years now so it is not much wonder we are reaching fever pitch will all this. We have actually got to a situation where people are waiting with baited breath for certain matches or certain teams to see what frenzy they can whip up afterwards.

Regarding Tyrone and Donegal last Sunday - we had a fiercely contested game from start to finish with a lot of skill on display. Some folk are saying a match like that will be the death of Gaelic football - on the contrary I believe that as long as games are contests then the sport still has a decent chance. Ulster throws up by far the most contests (not teams are necessarily better) and it is no coincidence that it is the provincial Championship that draws big crowds week in week out.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 20/05/2015 11:09:10    1725955

Personnally,i have nothing but respect for the Ulster championship.I love the close nature of most of the games.Unlike others - low scoring,tigh,tactical games have never bothered me.There are plenty high scoring games of quality each year aswell.Last weeks game was an excellent start to the season.There did seem to be a lot of mouthing and hitting off the ball,but there was a lot at stake and it didnt take away from my enjoyment of it.Its by far the hardest province to win.If you win an Ulster medal,youve certainly earned it.Warts n all,im a fan!

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 20/05/2015 11:31:00    1725971

essmac after the U-21 final a couple of weeks ago Tipperary posters on here who complained about the sledging done by Tyrone players were mocked by many Ulster posters as bad losers, cry-babies, jealous of northerners, swallowing the lies of the southern media etc. 2 weeks later Sean Cavanagh comes out and says the level of sledging in the Donegal-Tyrone game was disgraceful and it has to be stopped, and most Ulster posters agree with him. How do you explain this sudden change in attitudes?

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 20/05/2015 12:05:03    1725987

essmac after the U-21 final a couple of weeks ago Tipperary posters on here who complained about the sledging done by Tyrone players were mocked by many Ulster posters as bad losers, cry-babies, jealous of northerners, swallowing the lies of the southern media etc. 2 weeks later Sean Cavanagh comes out and says the level of sledging in the Donegal-Tyrone game was disgraceful and it has to be stopped, and most Ulster posters agree with him. How do you explain this sudden change in attitudes?

Im Sean Cavanagh and so is my wife!

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 20/05/2015 12:28:11    1726002

Soma not sure that is the case - many were saying that this has always been in the game to a degree and most of us have come across it from an early age and did not let it affect us too much as a result.

Certainly you may be describing some posters but many felt that after the U21 final that this sledging was suddenly being jumped upon because Tipp had made an issue out of it. Since Tipp made an issue out of it and the resultant miles it got from media, forums etc there was going to be more scrutiny on it especially in a game involving Tyrone.

As such Cavanagh was asked the direct question and gave the direct answer that it is unsavoury - as it is - no-one denies this but Cavanagh also said you just have to be thick-skinned - as many people have said since this new buzzword has appeared.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 20/05/2015 12:32:16    1726006

Im Sean Cavanagh.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 20/05/2015 12:33:00    1726008

Which interview was that Soma that he called it disgraceful and said it had to stop. Throw up the link as wouldn't mind a wee gander.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 20/05/2015 12:36:27    1726010