fabio8
County: USA
Posts: 1873

1723574
soccer fans are a lot more appreciative of good defending sadly..people in the gaa are unable to appreciate good defending

its not supporters though im talking about its the media
the media are the ones on a crusade against gaelic football
simply because of rare games like dublin v derry
yet it happens week in week in week out in soccer
and the media dont go to town on them
instead they focus on the positives that happened in that game
belive it or not the media has a huge inflience over peoples thinking
and it reflects itself with posters on hs

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 14/05/2015 16:03:15    1723700

I blame the fancy-Dan managers from club to county level. When you coach youngsters you try to get the team to hold it's shape & play the wings. But if the half forwards are told to keep retreating it all breaks down...which is what's happening at senior level. It's not conducive to attacking football as the link men are far too deep. You then have to handpass your way out of defence (often laterally) which can be risky & a dangerous place to turnover the ball. For sure there are useful tactics for defending a lead or playing against a strong wind but I believe the onus should be on upskilling players on kicking, catching, tackling etc instead of on systems & gym work.

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 14/05/2015 16:07:08    1723702

The biggest problem facing football bad refereeing and it has been that way for some time.
Some referees not fit to referee a dog fight.

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 14/05/2015 16:41:28    1723721

i agree with you on the media hill but in fairness look at the amount of people on here only interested in the negative...there is a decent amount with no appreciation of good defending

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 14/05/2015 17:07:01    1723731

KYforSam : Dublin - Kerry 2011 seriously , the first half was awful , could you give me the score after 25 mins of that . What are the sections of Northern posters saying ?? It's the Kerry ' purists ' who couldn't handle new challengers such as Tyrone in the 00s that started these disgusting ' anti everything Ulster ' vibes . Any way , enjoy your touch Munster draw this year . We don't have a problem with the game at all. Ulster matches might not be as entertaining as the wonderful classics that you's are involved in every year down in the Mun champ , what can one do though !

TheRightStuff (Donegal) - Posts: 1688 - 14/05/2015 17:25:42    1723734

fabio8,

I think most people like good defending in the classic sense - one V one. Reading the play quicker than your marker, getting out in front, fullback catching a high ball & coming out with it, getting a hand in, shadowing an attacker away from the danger area, centre back's good positioning etc. As opposed to swarm defence.

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 14/05/2015 17:35:37    1723742

If you take for example Kerry v Dublin 2011 and 2013, Kerry v Mayo last year(x2), i thought they were very enjoyable games. Can anyone tell me a match in the last 5 years in the ulster championship that was anywhere near as exciting as the matches i mentioned above?? I think ill be waiting a while

KY, you really are something else.

You quote Kerry V Dublin & Kerry V Mayo & then ask for Ulster Championship games to compare them with. A fairer question would be to compare Munster Championship with Ulster Championship, but that wouldn't suit your agenda as there haven't been many Munster Championship games to set the pulses racing in the last few years.


Granted the Ulster Championship is not the last word in open attacking football, but so what?

Donegal & Tyrone play in the preliminary round on Sunday & it will be to a packed Ballybofey. The winners will play Armagh in the 1st round proper & again it will be a sell out.

Can any other province boast the same?

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 14/05/2015 17:55:50    1723751

THERIGHTSTUFF

So you are saying you didnt enjoy does games against the dubs in 2011/13?? Which is exactly my point..
Posters such as yourself try to find any area in good games that dont involve your own counties to have a gripe about. I did enjoy those games and im not going to apologise that even though we did lose and also the games against Mayo last year.

In regards to tyrone, I think most kerry fans would agree they were the better team at the time and fully deserved their wins but while they havent been challenging for a good few years, we are still around every year at the top. Im sure you know its hard to have an advantage over every county. Im sure even Donegal have struggled to beat certain counties over the years but i wont rub your face in it like you guys keep reminding us about tyrone.

I never said i didnt enjoy ulster football and am looking forward to yer game at the weekend but simply i prefer the types of games i highlighted at the start.
Best of luck for the year and im sure ye will be thereabouts in September

KY4SAM2015 (Kerry) - Posts: 898 - 14/05/2015 18:10:13    1723759

Muckrosshead just because the game will be a sell out does not make it like there is no issue.
There was 80,000 people in Croke park last September for one of the most horrible games ever played in an AI Final.

This is not an anti Ulster thread.
I used Donegal in my example as they have a defensive system which they have mastered where they are still good at attacking.

But the majority of teams who copy that system be it club or county are just purely defensive.


Greece won Euro 2000 on a very very defensive system. That tournament was rightly criticised for the standard and changes were implememted by FIFA to improve the game.
Different ball, offside rule, more severe on dangerous tackling....etc etc

Football may evolve but also rules should evolve too

woops (Kerry) - Posts: 2073 - 14/05/2015 18:18:48    1723764

KY4SAM2015
County: Kerry
Posts: 60

1723575 If you take for example Kerry v Dublin 2011 and 2013, Kerry v Mayo last year(x2), i thought they were very enjoyable games win,lose or draw but you had people everywhere trying to nitpick and find faults with every part of the games. Mainly people from non footballing counties or from sections of northern posters, i feel anytime there is a decent match takes place they have some gripe about it.

In fairness, I thought the 2011 game between Dublin and Kerry was dull enough affair, and too many Kerry and Dublin fans tried to convince the world after the 2013 game that it was the greatest game ever witnessed. And when you call yourself or associate yourself with being the greatest ever in GAA circles, you will get shot down.

I thought the Donegal v Dublin SF was even better than the Mayo v Kerry games last year, more because of the anticipation prior to the match of the contrasting styles and people wondering about 2011. I think most of Ireland was in shock when Donegal took the lead and then extended it in the 2nd half.

Can anyone tell me a match in the last 5 years in the ulster championship that was anywhere near as exciting as the matches i mentioned above?? I think ill be waiting a while

Your wait is over, Derry v Down in the Ulster Championship 2013. That was a truly superb game with some fantastic exhibition in point taking. While it may not have had the epic backdrop of Croke Park, It was an exhilarating game nonetheless.

There have been some really enjoyable and edge of the seat matches in Ulster in the last 3-5 years in fairness. Although I think having Croke Park as a backdrop can really add to the atmosphere of a game, also having a decent crowd in attendance too.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 14/05/2015 20:27:14    1723792

ziggy32001
County: Meath
Posts: 2755

1723657 Ya the real issue,is the fact that many teams have tried the Donegal model,but are not good enough to do it! Like the last poster,they have not got the fluency,class or counter-attacking ability that Donegal have,so in the end,they are just defensive..

Teams should look closely what they themselves are good at, and work from that base at building a system that is right for them. Dublin had a superb system in 2013 and 2014, but despite beating almost everybody, one loss made them abandon it, well abandon some elements of it.

While the defensive approach did bring Donegal success, and more sustained success than any other time in their history. It is still Important to note that Donegal have been consistently a very strong side in Ulster for the bulk of the last 26 years. They didn't simply develop an attacking element to their defensive system. They really married their own traditional attacking game to the defensive game with devastating success in 2012.

Donegal played some excellent football for most of the 2000's against the likes of Armagh and Tyrone, yet always narrowly missed out on Ulster Championships & failed to Impact the All Ireland series in any sustained manner. Their problems were a mixture of failure to adapt to the Armagh/Tyrone defensive template, and the team Implosion that generally followed defeats to those two sides in Ulster and subsequently led to mostly disappointing qualifier runs.

The fact remains, Donegal often ran these sides close and occasionally even beat them, all while playing a very open style of football. With their added defensive resilience under McGuinness, they have since become thee dominant force in Ulster football and serious All Ireland contenders. Others need to look beyond the blanket, and see the bigger picture.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 14/05/2015 21:36:05    1723813

I cant agree with the general point youre making mes.
I think that every sport should be open to rule changes and alterations if the need arises.
As tactics in the game and attitudes to the game change, then sometimes the rules need to change too.

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 15/05/2015 08:37:17    1723833

Defensive football takes huge fitness and needs all players putting in huge effort and commitment. The championship gives all teams going through the front door a gap of 3-4 weeks between matches to rest and be ready for a huge effort the next day. Defensive teams fail when they have to go through the back door because games come thick and fast and the players cannot recover sufficiently. Ulster teams that play defensively come unstuck in the qualifiers for this reason or else they end up at the quarter finals with nothing left in the tank.

The real change is needed in the fixtures. A modified championship providing more games in a shorter time frame forces teams to "let the ball do the work".

I also think the 3rd man tackle should be a free to the man in possession. At the moment the ref blows the whistle and no one knows which way the free will go.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1134 - 15/05/2015 08:42:19    1723835

Really good article doing the rounds last night

http://www.sportsjoe.ie/gaa/can-everyone-please-just-stop-trying-to-fix-the-gaa/24570

turkeyplucker (UK) - Posts: 137 - 15/05/2015 09:09:14    1723846

Good point GaryMc82 Re Derry v Down 2013 and got me thinking that if you were looking for the equal of Kerry Dublin 2013 for teams having a go, loads of scores, naive defending, exciting from start to finish then you have to look no further than Fermanagh v Antrim 2014 - even had Pat Spillane waxing lyrical that evening on RTE.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 15/05/2015 09:22:03    1723850

GaryMc82
Your wait is over, Derry v Down in the Ulster Championship 2013. That was a truly superb game with some fantastic exhibition in point taking. While it may not have had the epic backdrop of Croke Park, It was an exhilarating game nonetheless.

There have been some really enjoyable and edge of the seat matches in Ulster in the last 3-5 years in fairness. Although I think having Croke Park as a backdrop can really add to the atmosphere of a game, also having a decent crowd in attendance too.

Thanks Gary for that info,I thought i would be waiting alot longer. Yeah i agree croker with its good playing surface and especially when its a full house add to the spectacle of any game and IS much more easy on the eye then some tight narrow provincial ground.

In regards to your preference for the donegal/dubs over kerry/mayp game i have no problem with that. Both good encounters and residing from one of the counties involved i naturally enjoyed the latter more. We all have our own preferences for the different types of games we like and i think we are too stubborn at this stage to be changed lol.

Hopefully this year will bring similiar games and talking points..exciting year ahead.

KY4SAM2015 (Kerry) - Posts: 898 - 15/05/2015 09:50:18    1723870

joncarter
County: Galway
Posts: 1828

1723833
I cant agree with the general point youre making mes.
I think that every sport should be open to rule changes and alterations if the need arises.
As tactics in the game and attitudes to the game change, then sometimes the rules need to change too.

My problem isn't exactly with rule changes per se.

It is more with this idea that "something must be done!" The idea that doing something is always better than doing nothing is very flawed imo.

If someone comes forward with a good idea than I'll listen and be all for it. However any rule changes I've heard thus far have been ridiculously short sighted and adopting them could really ruin football.

Football is in a very healthy state. If we can make it better then that'd be great but lets not destroy the game with ridiculous rule changes coming from some people's over reaction to a few games.

There has always been poor games and there always will be poor games no matter what magic rules are brought in.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13718 - 15/05/2015 10:05:22    1723874

Now we are talking tirawleybaron...this in my eyes is where the GAA should be looking at. As you state, the back door, although needed in some form needs to be looked at. In my opinion its completely unfair that Tyrone/Donegal have a massive game on Sunday (17th May) whereas Dublin and Kerry can canter along until August, thats something that needs looked at. Hypothetically, would love to see Kerry/Dublin in Ulster for a few years and throw them into a Preliminary game against Donegal/Monaghan/Tyrone away from home. See how many provincial and AI they win then! Then, when we are on the hypothetical train, stick Tyrone/Donegal into Leinster and play every game at Croke Park and see how they get on. I personally would do away with league finals, play provincial championship in April/May and then have a seeded knock out for AI with all teams entered. A bit radical and maybe too many games?

Harpo (Tyrone) - Posts: 50 - 15/05/2015 10:18:27    1723879

Games evolve? How? so do rules! every sport tweaks rules to improve the game, the back pass in soccer, jump-ball in basketball, the idea (with other sports that have a real global audience) is to actually try to always enhance their game.

Some of the carry on that passes for defending in Gaelic football is a joke skill! your having a laugh. Some games resemble U8 nursery games with hordes tearing after, surrounding and then plummelling a player to the ground and then the ref calling him for steps!!!

Thankfully this has not quite infected the Dublin adult/Juvenile football scene - yet!! Despite the best efforts of the traditionalists.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4898 - 15/05/2015 14:40:45    1724014

The sooner the championship gets going the better. Really fed up with the constant micro-analysis of our game which ramps up from end of league to start of championship. Yes things need improving, definitely the whole inter-county scene needs to be reviewed but overall we have a marvellous game, great stadia, brilliant sportsman and days never to be forgotten win, lose or draw. So time to look at the positives a litle more as the game overall has evolved to the better in the last 30- 40 years. Just look at all-ireland gold on TG4 and you will see.

Adamski (Dublin) - Posts: 339 - 15/05/2015 14:59:55    1724034