dickie10

Leaving eight teams with only one for relegation would have a few teams not trying hard in the last regular league matches.

That would be a great idea if the divisions were reduced to 3 groups of 6 and 2 groups of 7. (something like the hurling league)

Give the div 1 winners an automatic place in the all ireland q finals and all league finals would have something to play for

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1109 - 12/05/2015 16:30:34    1722866

dickie10
County: UK
Posts: 227

1722806 im going to make a groundbreaking suggestion here. leave the league final to between the top 2 in div 1. both just qualify for final , no semi finals, very cut throat. then. 1 team for promotion from div 2,3 and 4. the top 2 go into the div 2,3 and 4 league finals as they do now but with the wineer of the final the only team being promoted. i think u would see a totally different mind set in those finals then. they actually would be huge finals. in fact they would take on greater significance than a big qualifier game. because of the hope for the future going into div 1, 2 or 3. these games would generate a huge climax to the leagues and would be very close encounters. they may even overshadow the div 1 final!

Another very good Idea, well worth considering. You are correct in that system would be very competitive and Interesting.

10 Teams in both Division 1 and Division 2 makes a lot of sense to me also, as I'm sick of seeing team play the final round of league games and be in the running for both relegation and a League SF depending on results. As it then seems really unfair when some team got relegated by the skin of their teeth, considering they could have reached the League SF too has results been a little different.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 13/05/2015 17:27:58    1723317

Surely that is what sport should be about Gary, every game having real meaning? Have 10 teams in a division and many sides will have nothing to play for in their last 3-4 games which makes you wonder what the point of it is.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 13/05/2015 18:08:53    1723335

tirawleybaron
County: Mayo
Posts: 379

1722866 dickie10

Leaving eight teams with only one for relegation would have a few teams not trying hard in the last regular league matches.

That would be a great idea if the divisions were reduced to 3 groups of 6 and 2 groups of 7. (something like the hurling league)

Give the div 1 winners an automatic place in the all ireland q finals and all league finals would have something to play for


Forget the Hurling league, that is a mess compiled purely because of the lack of top sides in Hurling. In football, we still have 4 Provinces that are on fairly even footing in competitive terms.

Seed all 4 Provincial Championships based on final League positions, which would probably be enough motivation for most teams.

I don't think All Ireland QF place is a good Idea for the League winner, as some sides already have a handy enough run to the All Ireland QF.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 13/05/2015 18:29:37    1723346

Gary Mc. You obviuosly have not been following the hurling. The leagues were never as competitive and far from a MESS

ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 693 - 13/05/2015 19:30:18    1723372

I think playing each team in the division home and away is important from a fairness point of view and also it creates a bit of rivalry and interest. If Cork lose controversially to Kerry in Killarney and you are looking forward to the rematch on home turf a few weeks later. The main reason that is preventing the home and away fixtures is lack of time in the calendar with club games having to be facilitated and rightly so.

For football maybe reducing the number of teams in the top divisions (1A and 1B - equal strength) to 6 where each team plays every one else home and away. The top 2 in each division play off in semi finals or maybe just the top team in each play off in a final.

That would be 10 games as opposed to 7. Getting rid of the Mckenna, McGrath and O'Byrne Cups comfortably facilitate this. It's time to get rid of or at least reduce the number of competitions that teams are not going all out to win.

2 top divisions with 6 teams in each
2 group second division - same structure
Remaining 8 teams play in division 3.

Given that division 3 would house the bottom 8 teams in the country they could potentially play each team home and away too totalling 14 games. They wouldn't usually be involved at the business end of the championship so the club calendar wouldn't be under the same pressure.

dahayeser (Cork) - Posts: 337 - 14/05/2015 09:51:34    1723457

Soma
County: UK
Posts: 979

1723335 Surely that is what sport should be about Gary, every game having real meaning? Have 10 teams in a division and many sides will have nothing to play for in their last 3-4 games which makes you wonder what the point of it is.

The National League is currently considered a warm up for the Championship, nothing more than that by most Counties.

Because the margins are currently so fine in the National League, most teams target specific games to win ( Generally 3 home wins to ensure safety unless 1 team in the division loses every single game ).

We see reigning All Ireland Champions in the relegation fight on the last day of the league, sometimes getting the wrong results.

By expanding the league, It would provide more competitive games for teams and generally ensure that the better teams do stay up. By having your final position Impact your Championship seeding, teams will try very hard.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 14/05/2015 12:25:33    1723576

ZUL10
County: Clare
Posts: 234

1723372 Gary Mc. You obviuosly have not been following the hurling. The leagues were never as competitive and far from a MESS

I wasn't talking about the Hurling league, I was talking about Hurling as a whole.

The Hurling All Ireland is fed from 2 x Provincial Championships ( Munster and Leinster ), while football still has 4 x respectable Provincial Championships being represented in All Ireland Football final's.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 14/05/2015 19:41:11    1723784

Gary I still think you are trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist. No matter what changes you make to the league, the championship will always be considered the biggest competition and rightly so, its a test of a teams ability to perform on a given day. Therefore the league will always be a warm-up, by ensuring teams are trying to avoid relegation or get promotion at least it retains its competitiveness.

I am not sure about your suggestion that teams target 3 home wins to avoid relegation - in Division 1 this year there were 28 games with 13 home wins, 4 draws and 11 away wins. It was similar in Division 2, so if teams are targeting just home wins then they are having little success achieving this.

I don't know why you consider it wrong that All-Ireland champions could get relegated, if you don't perform in the league that is the consequence regardless of previous success. I don't know when last reigning champions were relegated but if they are I don't see what is wrong with that.

Finally regarding seeding from the league for championship, if the top seeds in Leinster play the lowest seeds in the first round then it would have been Dublin v Carlow for each of the last 4 seasons, in Connacht Mayo v London. I am not sure what the attraction of that is for anyone.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 14/05/2015 21:51:57    1723820

If you really need more league game (which we don't, we need a World Cup style open draw top sixteen all ireland) the proposal by dahayeser is better. Who cares if the all ireland champions get relegated in the league? It's not them we need to be worrying about.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1109 - 15/05/2015 08:23:50    1723828

Soma
County: UK
Posts: 980

1723820 Gary I still think you are trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist. No matter what changes you make to the league, the championship will always be considered the biggest competition and rightly so, its a test of a teams ability to perform on a given day. Therefore the league will always be a warm-up, by ensuring teams are trying to avoid relegation or get promotion at least it retains its competitiveness.

The league is non competitive in it's current form, with only a handful of teams who take it half seriously as a competition. The teams that do this, normally have large squads of players to choose from, and need a good run, as their provincial's might not provide any stiff challenges until July.

I am not sure about your suggestion that teams target 3 home wins to avoid relegation - in Division 1 this year there were 28 games with 13 home wins, 4 draws and 11 away wins. It was similar in Division 2, so if teams are targeting just home wins then they are having little success achieving this.

Generally teams target certain games to win at the beginning of the league, which are normally home games. Sometimes they will have nightmare list of home games against the likes of Dublin, Kerry or Cork, and may try to pick up few points at home and have to focus more on away games.


I don't know why you consider it wrong that All-Ireland champions could get relegated, if you don't perform in the league that is the consequence regardless of previous success. I don't know when last reigning champions were relegated but if they are I don't see what is wrong with that.

Let's call a spade a spade, the league is essentially a warm up competition to try out new talent and tactics. And most top teams want to be in Division 1 to see how the new players and tactics work against other top players. Under the current system, we seen reigning All Ireland champions either relegated or narrowly avoid relegation from Division 1 on the final day. Not because they weren't good enough, but more because one or two results didn't go their way as we often see in league games. Then we have scenario's like in 2014, where Division 1 was weaker than normal, while Division 2 was stronger than normal.


Finally regarding seeding from the league for championship, if the top seeds in Leinster play the lowest seeds in the first round then it would have been Dublin v Carlow for each of the last 4 seasons, in Connacht Mayo v London. I am not sure what the attraction of that is for anyone.

The seeding is not to see the weakest play the strongest, It is to generally avoid having all the top sides in one side of the draw and then seeing top sides in the country end up in the side of the Qualfier's were they eliminate each other before the All Ireland Series. But each Province would decide themselves on how to best use the league seeding. Leinster may well decide that Dublin should be given a final or Semi final postion every year, as clearly they are always good enough to be there.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 15/05/2015 21:47:25    1724152

Longford just proved the league finals and actual league games are no more than challenge matches and preparation for championship.
12 point turn around in 2 weeks.

OhtobeARossie (Roscommon) - Posts: 1764 - 16/05/2015 20:43:54    1724304