With my native Cork losing 3 league finals recently - NFL, NHL, and Ladies - should finals be scrapped
and league tables determine titles - to give Cork a chance ?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2640 - 09/05/2015 17:49:44    1721811

Totally agree. Those who top the league should win the league IMO. Could you imagine if Chelsea now after winning the premiership had to play Man U in a semi and then arsenal or man city in a final it would be a total joke.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 09/05/2015 18:44:38    1721829

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/hold-the-back-page-boring-elephant-in-the-room-31191073.html

lilypad (Kildare) - Posts: 1363 - 09/05/2015 18:59:52    1721833

dont agree with that articles parception that the hurling league matters more than the football

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 09/05/2015 19:44:53    1721845

i would agree about the hurling hill16, the rest of the article is on the button though

lilypad (Kildare) - Posts: 1363 - 09/05/2015 20:42:19    1721861

Totally agree with scrapping finals, top of league wins. In divisions 2,3 and 4 nobody cares about those finals as both sides have already achieved promotion which is the goal. In division 1 you also have semi finals giving a team that finishes fourth out of 8 teams a shout of winning the league outright which is ridiculous.

Royalace (Meath) - Posts: 121 - 09/05/2015 20:43:45    1721863

The semi-finals are definitely a step too far anyway. I would favour the divisions being reduced to 6 teams, resulting in a shorter league. I'd like then for a provincial group stage to follow for the start of the championship:
1 group of 6 in Munster
1 group of 5 in Connaught
2 groups of 5 in Ulster + London.
A group of 5 and a group of 6 in Leinster.

Have all provincial champions march on the the All-Ireland quarter-finals.
Provincial runners-up from all provinces to play-off against Ulster and Leinster semi-finalists.

It's another option in the never ending debate.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7911 - 09/05/2015 20:59:20    1721871

Scrap the SF/Finals of the National League.

Expand Division 1 to 10 teams, giving all teams 9 league games each. Top of table wins, bottom 2 get relegated.

Expand Division 2 to 10 teams, giving all teams 9 league games each. Top 2 get promoted, bottom team gets relegated to a lower league.

Replace Division 3 & 4 with two 6 teams Division's, divided geographically into a Northern and Southern Leagues. Each team would play the other 5 teams twice, home and away. Both league winners would then play off for Promotion

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 09/05/2015 21:59:14    1721898

GaryMc82
County: Derry

GaryMac I think that is a really good format you've suggested. I would differ only on one small point. I would have three relegated/promoted between Div 2 and the Div 3/4 combo. The north and south group winners to be promoted along with the winner of a play off between the two runners up. Given our two different allegiances you might forgive me for wanting a greater chance of escape form the basement hell that is the bottom division!!

offyertrolley (Leitrim) - Posts: 141 - 10/05/2015 11:37:01    1721948

I agree, Scrap them

waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13650 - 10/05/2015 11:44:28    1721953

offyertrolley
County: Leitrim
Posts: 34

1721948 GaryMc82
County: Derry

GaryMac I think that is a really good format you've suggested. I would differ only on one small point. I would have three relegated/promoted between Div 2 and the Div 3/4 combo. The north and south group winners to be promoted along with the winner of a play off between the two runners up. Given our two different allegiances you might forgive me for wanting a greater chance of escape form the basement hell that is the bottom division!!

Agreed, your suggestion is better in that it does allow more teams to join Division 2.

I labelled the bottom 2 Division's as Northern League and Southern League, but really this can be geographically vague and not within strict provincial boundaries. These two divisions can be split according to the teams who make up the 2 divisions, and called Division 3A and Division 3B for all I care. I think Northern or Southern League champions has a nice ring to it.

The Idea is to give teams in both equal divisions 10 games each, and not have them travel over 2-3 hours for a match. As in the past, lower division teams have stated that they didn't have the same level of funding as some of the top level teams. Shorter distance to matches, and yet offer lower division sides quite a lot of competitive games.

This would see a massive shake up in the bottom 2 divisions each year, as both Northern/Southern divisions would be drawn up from scratch after the promotion/relegation playoffs, depending on the location of certain Counties.
Example: Westmeath, Longford, Wicklow etc could end up playing in Northern league this season, and the Southern League next season depending on which 3 teams were relegated from Division 2.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 10/05/2015 13:42:03    1722000

( Amendment due to good Idea by offyertrolley of Leitrim ).

Scrap the SF/Finals of the National League.

Expand Division 1 to 10 teams, giving all teams 9 league games each. Top of table wins, bottom 2 get relegated.

Expand Division 2 to 10 teams, giving all teams 9 league games each. Top 2 get promoted, bottom 2 teams gets relegated to a lower league. Division 2's 3rd from bottom plays winner of a Northern league/Southern league runners up play off, with winner getting to play Division 2 football.

Replace Division 3 & 4 with two 6 teams Division's, divided geographically into a Northern and Southern Leagues. Each team would play the other 5 teams twice, home and away.
Top teams from both Northern League and Southern League, would automatically be promoted to Division 2. With the runners up from both Leagues meeting in a playoff, of which the winner then plays the team who finished 3rd from bottom in Division 2 for the right to play Division 2 football the following year

- This will ensure ALL teams in the top 2 Divisions will get at least 9 games each ( Currently only the Division 1 League finalists get 9 competitive games ).
- This will ensure ALL teams in the Northern/Southern Leagues get at least 10 games each.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 10/05/2015 13:55:24    1722009

I agree with most of GaryMc82's first suggestion:
Division 1: 10 teams - 9 games. Top 2 in the final. Bottom 2 relegated.
Division 2: 10 teams - 9 games. Top 2 in the final and both being promoted. Bottom 2 relegated.
Division 3: 12 teams - North and South divisions of 6 each. 10 games of 5 home and 5 away. Top team in each division promoted and divisional winner.

10 weeks of action in all. Retention of finals in top two divisions reflects that some teams have one less home game. Sponsors will want to retain the final as well. Fair enough for the support of the current sponsors. Division 3 has even home and away games. Fair enough in that case that the table toppers are promoted and winners of their division. Ideally the league could be used as a seeding for qualifier draws. It would given an added edge for performing well in the league.

Adding play-offs in Division 3 is notable but it's adding extra weekends. Clubs have to be kept in mind.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7911 - 10/05/2015 14:49:19    1722035

Actually Guys - I had intended this topic to be quite humourous, given Cork's record - and was seeking a self serving rule change :)
Given the responses, none of you took me apart - in fact the first Kerry response underwhelmed me, given my motive :)

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2640 - 10/05/2015 17:40:29    1722103

I like Gary Mc82's 2x10 + 2x6 as well. Would split difference with offyertrolley - 2 up from div 3 - North and South champs.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2640 - 10/05/2015 20:37:31    1722227

I have said this for years. it is total stupidity. a league is a league

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 10/05/2015 21:16:22    1722256

omahant
County: USA
Posts: 533

1722103 Actually Guys - I had intended this topic to be quite humourous, given Cork's record - and was seeking a self serving rule change :)
Given the responses, none of you took me apart - in fact the first Kerry response underwhelmed me, given my motive :)

Whatever your motives, I think many people want some thing fresh from Championship and more of an actual League.

I'm not in favour of any League final, because the teams will have already played during the league itself. I think the League SF really adds to the mess, as it makes the National league a Championship of sorts.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 11/05/2015 14:06:18    1722449

If your going to incorporate league and championship then you will have to condense the whole season. I doubt there is a huge appetite at administration level for that at the moment.

I think the league is a good competition and should be kept. But to give it meaning it should be used to seed the championship.

The provincials obviously need to be over hauled.

I'd also favour scrapping the league semi finals under their current guise. But league finals are required. It gives players from weaker sides an opportunity to run out in Croker and have a realistic chance of winning a trophy. It's not all about the best teams.

seany16 (Dublin) - Posts: 1658 - 11/05/2015 15:46:27    1722504

seany16
County: Dublin
Posts: 1534

1722504 If your going to incorporate league and championship then you will have to condense the whole season. I doubt there is a huge appetite at administration level for that at the moment.

I think the league is a good competition and should be kept. But to give it meaning it should be used to seed the championship.

The provincials obviously need to be over hauled.

I'd also favour scrapping the league semi finals under their current guise. But league finals are required. It gives players from weaker sides an opportunity to run out in Croker and have a realistic chance of winning a trophy. It's not all about the best teams.

Keeping the League final is definitely that seems to be popular among a few people, and I do appreciate the need to give weaker or lower level sides a run out in Croke Park.

I agree with seeing the final places of the National League, and that is something that can be done with minimal effort, so long as all 4 Provincial Championships are seeded too.

All in all, we are actually getting to the point of having a superb revamped National League proposal.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 12/05/2015 14:01:54    1722790

im going to make a groundbreaking suggestion here. leave the league final to between the top 2 in div 1. both just qualify for final , no semi finals, very cut throat. then. 1 team for promotion from div 2,3 and 4. the top 2 go into the div 2,3 and 4 league finals as they do now but with the wineer of the final the only team being promoted. i think u would see a totally different mind set in those finals then. they actually would be huge finals. in fact they would take on greater significance than a big qualifier game. because of the hope for the future going into div 1, 2 or 3. these games would generate a huge climax to the leagues and would be very close encounters. they may even overshadow the div 1 final!

dickie10 (UK) - Posts: 697 - 12/05/2015 14:43:11    1722806