cuederocket
County: Dublin
Posts: 2051

1723300
I believe Dublin to have an advantage in Croke Park.Every single game,no matter the opposition.The fact weve played all our home league games there over last few years really makes it our home ground now.Just like we had an advantage playing in Parnell Park.Just like any county in Ireland playing at home in their county grounds.

----- again this is not like any other 'home ground'. CP is not reserved for Dublin only. Gooch has probably played there more times than the whole Dublin forward line combined. Can you say that about any other county's home ground?


It is always an advantage.Obviously it wont make a huge difference if the away team is far superior.Even so it would probably shave a few points off the end result.

----------- yes but let's not forget that the league is not the premier competition, treated with ambivalence by a lot of counties, is not played on a competitive home and away basis, so any one season can yield good home results if you happen to draw weaker counties at home, and counties tend to experiment with rookie players throughout, so any Croke Park experience may not yield advantages if half the league team is not playing in the summer. So these stats are open to question anyway.


Its the same the world over.In most sports.In all the football leagues in England,Spain,Germany the home records for teams are vastly superior to the away form.Why is this?

----- it's because of the above. Look at Dublin's home and away record and show us the evidence

mean,like hill16 says,its still only grass and 2 goalposts.Same as every other ground?Nonsense.
The Croke Park pitch is unique.Different than any other.With the huge stands surrounding it,Dublin players,by playing 4 league games,3/4 Leinster games are brilliantly prepared for the August weekend quarter final.

---- no evdence to back that up and by quarter final stage you are playing top themselves who themselves have sometimes played there 3 to 4 times that year so again this is a moot point.

That is 8 games approx played in HQ before we play some of the big boys.8 games for players to accustom themselves with all the little nuances and vagueries that Croke Park presents.

----- means little. How many times have Donegal played there in the last year. I reeckon they have played about 5 times in the last 9 months. Agree?


Our players are used to every blade of grass,where the shadow envelops the pitch at times,the wind directions some days.Our forwards are used to kicking into both the hill and canal end where they get better preperation for tuning the eye into the crowds behind both goals.

------ Obviously weaker county players may have a problem but no top team forwards would use any of those excuses and besides per above they will likely have played there many times anyway.

Same applies for our freetakers.Theres no other ground where the stand goes up so high behind the goal(canal end).Not all free-takers are used to this.Different optics if you like.Again,with all the practice,its an advantage to us.More practise,better results.

------- Cillian O'Connor, Conor McManus, Gooch, Michael Murphy etc. have all kicked there loads of times, more than Dean Rock probably, so again I would not put too much weight on blades of grass, shadows and crowd arguments. There are two posts, a ball and a foot. Everything else is physics and no different to any other ground.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 13/05/2015 19:18:41    1723366

but joxer the season ticket system is only in place on the gurantee that all the dublin games have already been decided that they will play in croke park..if that situation changes then obviously the season ticket will be changed....obviously its a pity and it needs to be changed..its a ridic situation to be honest..its not a moot point...the season ticket system will have no relevance if dublin arent guranteed to be playing in croke park....the dubs will have to travel and get their tickets just like everybody else..if the ground they go to is a little more awkward then croke park then tough..its the same for everybody else...there was very little issues in longford in 2006

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 13/05/2015 19:20:17    1723367

cuederocket
County: Dublin
Posts: 2053

1723356
Psychology certainly plays a part hill.It is the 1 aspect of home advantage that you are correct about.

-----
Yes but Cue I don't think my question was answered on this. Let's take Donegal. If you asked Donegal, would you like to play Dublin in the AI semi in Croke Park, a pitch and surroundings which you are very familiar with, where the crowd is not encrouching on the pitch, where you will be guaranteed an almost equal attendance, where you can 'stick it to the Hill' when you score or would you prefer to play Dublin at their home ground of Parnell Park on a tight pitch which Dublin will be very familiar with, in surroundings that will be alien to you, at a ground where Dublin fans will be on top of you and breathing down your neck and where Donegal fans will be heavily outnumbered. What do you think the answer from Donegal would be? Now is Croke Park really a home ground for Dublin in the true sense of the word 'home'? I don't believe it's a like for like comparison. Certainly not one on which Brady's 'home' win stats are based on anyway. It's apples and oranges for me.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 13/05/2015 19:30:28    1723373

I gave you quite a few hill.If i said something was black,hill,youd say it was white.Joxer,if you disagree with every point i made,fair enough,there is no more i can add to the subject.Needless to say,i remain steadfast in believing playing all our games in Croke Park to be an advantage to us.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 13/05/2015 19:58:19    1723378

fabio8
County: USA
Posts: 1862

1723367
but joxer the season ticket system is only in place on the gurantee that all the dublin games have already been decided that they will play in croke park..if that situation changes then obviously the season ticket will be changed....obviously its a pity and it needs to be changed..its a ridic situation to be honest..its not a moot point...the season ticket system will have no relevance if dublin arent guranteed to be playing in croke park....the dubs will have to travel and get their tickets just like everybody else..if the ground they go to is a little more awkward then croke park then tough..its the same for everybody else...there was very little issues in longford in 2006

---
Yes Fabio but that's not going to happen. The GAA will not put the core Dublin support base at risk and why should they. What other county has a situation where 2/3 fans might not be able to obtain a ticket for a league match and they loyal supporters having followed their team on the road since the scheme's inception. Do you seriously think that will happen? No way. And Dublin is not like 'every other county' as people from outside Dublin conveniently point out when it suits them. Our numbers are very large. So it's not 'the same for everybody else'. Tough but that's just the way it is. Dubs are box office and Croke Park is here to stay.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 13/05/2015 20:17:03    1723382

an empty croke park in leinster isnt exactly box office..the dubs playing away from home certainly would be in whatever area the draw dictates both for the town and stadium

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 13/05/2015 20:53:24    1723392

cuederocket
County: Dublin
Posts: 2054

1723378
I gave you quite a few hill.If i said something was black,hill,youd say it was white.Joxer,if you disagree with every point i made,fair enough,there is no more i can add to the subject.Needless to say,i remain steadfast in believing playing all our games in Croke Park to be an advantage to us.

----
Well Cue, you asked a simple question about advantage to which I gave a fuzzy answer in fairness as I don't believe it's black and white, but I have asked you a simple question re a Donegal answer to a choice on playing Dublin at home or at Croke Park. You still haven't answered that but out of curiosity which venue do you think they would choose?

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 13/05/2015 20:59:45    1723395

All of what Joxer said above I agree with!

When Kerry and Tyrone were spanking Dublin in the Noughties we never heard this home team advantage stuff. Many observers noted the pressure from the "home" support was too much for the players and causing them to bottle it in the big games.

JayP (Dublin) - Posts: 1772 - 13/05/2015 21:09:26    1723397

I cant speak for what Donegal would choose Joxer,but if i was from Donegal and offered the choice,i would bring the Dubs upto Letterkenny and use home comforts to our advantage.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 13/05/2015 21:19:52    1723401

WOuld love to see Dublin V Mayo All ireland semi in Castlebar.

Coppers would never stand for moving GAA matches from Croke Park.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1125 - 14/05/2015 08:25:57    1723433

cuederocket
County: Dublin
Posts: 2056

1723360
81% hill?In all 4 divisions.Up and down the country.4 out of every 5 home teams win.You have been talking balderdash,gibberish and utter nonsense for a long time now in regards home advantage only being a myth in sport.All the statistics prove you wrong.Time and again.Your only fooling yourself on this one because your certainly not hoodwinking me.Home,sweet home baby!

what are you talking about
you sound like a 5 year old
its amazing how you use this years national league to base your theory on for results
but when I show the facts of dublins leinster champioship results for over 40 years you actually dismiss it
the clear evidence of 1973 being the last time we lost away from dublin in leinster
and the fact that in the last 14 years meath,kildare,laois and westmeath have all beaten us in croke park
and wexford have drawn with us in croke park
afterall we are talking about the leinster championship here not the national league
so surely leinster championship results for 40 years are more relevant than one years national league

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 14/05/2015 10:24:23    1723479

fabio8
County: USA
Posts: 1865

1723392
an empty croke park in leinster isnt exactly box office..the dubs playing away from home certainly would be in whatever area the draw dictates both for the town and stadium

there was 40 thousand at the first round in leinster last year
thats hardly an empty croke park
thats 50% full
and also double the attendance you would have been able to allow in to any other ground in leinster as it stands
also more than any of the provincial finals in both football and hurling apart from the leinster one involving dublin.

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 14/05/2015 10:29:11    1723485

Hill,i think its pretty obvious what im talking about.If you cant read between the lines thats not my problem.For a man that doesnt believe in home advantage,however big or small,in world sport or Gaa,i cant take you seriously.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 14/05/2015 11:16:32    1723531

cuederocket
County: Dublin
Posts: 2056

1723401
I cant speak for what Donegal would choose Joxer,but if i was from Donegal and offered the choice,i would bring the Dubs upto Letterkenny and use home comforts to our advantage.

----
Ah Jayzus Cue, Letterkenny wasn't an option there :) We're talking about Dublin's home advantage here aren't we?

Anyway I take it from your reply that I have made my point. My work here is done!!

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 14/05/2015 11:16:34    1723532

Joxer,u asked me whether Donegal would prefer to play Dublin at home,or in Croke Park?

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 14/05/2015 11:22:57    1723539

cuederocket
County: Dublin
Posts: 2058

1723531
Hill,i think its pretty obvious what im talking about.If you cant read between the lines thats not my problem.For a man that doesnt believe in home advantage,however big or small,in world sport or Gaa,i cant take you seriously.

the one thing I find glaringly obvious is your refusal to listen to anything on the matter other than what you want to hear
im giving you facts and you just keep ignoring them
and yet you cannot give me one actual reason as to how its physicaly an advantage

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 14/05/2015 11:32:55    1723544

Lads,ill be in Clearys,Amien St,late on about 4 or 5.Drop in and well have a chin wag over a few waxies.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 14/05/2015 11:51:26    1723555

its a half empty croke park..if the draw dictates dublin are to play away from home then play away from home....your argument about home advantages doesnt stand up as we know the only reason you are arguing for it is because dublin are the team enjoying it..some posters here really lack any sort of objectivity..they behave like fanboys instead of fans...the season ticket system would be changed if they actually had a chance of playing away from home for once....again nobody is saying dublin are going to lose away from home considering the standard of team they are likely to be playing just it will be more competitive...longford 2005 and 2006 difference is a blatant example of this which has been ignored

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 14/05/2015 12:26:00    1723577

fabio8
County: USA
Posts: 1869

1723577
its a half empty croke park..if the draw dictates dublin are to play away from home then play away from home....your argument about home advantages doesnt stand up as we know the only reason you are arguing for it is because dublin are the team enjoying it..some posters here really lack any sort of objectivity..they behave like fanboys instead of fans...the season ticket system would be changed if they actually had a chance of playing away from home for once....again nobody is saying dublin are going to lose away from home considering the standard of team they are likely to be playing just it will be more competitive...longford 2005 and 2006 difference is a blatant example of this which has been ignored

its 40 thousand that ain't no small amount of people, i have no problem with dublin playing away from home, i went to 3 of the 4 away games this season, my arguement is based on facts, what physical advantage is there is what i ask? so far not one has been put forward, all i can see is people seem to psychologicaly be effected playing away from home, thats by no means an advantage, thats a problem for the team manager to easily address by motivating his team and making them believe, its the same as shielding your team from being overwhelming favourites. is a managers job to make sure his team is in the right frame of mind, you reference longford 2005 and 2006, what about wexford in 2010,2011 and laois in 2012, kildare in 2011,meath in 2012, all pushed dublin equally as hard and they were in croke park

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 14/05/2015 12:45:37    1723594

you deny home advantage has any role in sport....ask anybody in soccer if they agree with you or rugby...i doubt you find many..the only reason you are pushing this viewpoint is because it is your own team that is benefiting from playing at home...it is systematically wrong for 1 team to get to play inferior teams at home all the time...both on the playing field and also the boost playing dublin would give a local economy

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 14/05/2015 13:01:28    1723602