exactly cud..enough with the excuses..you either concede home advantage is important in sport or you dont..it is commonly regarded as such...we dont want to hear political talk..obviously dublin arent going to have a season ticket situation if they actually have to play an away match in the champ for once

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 12/05/2015 21:57:56    1723017

The problem with your line of argument Cue is when your pressed on the point you revert back to your simple question. I've pressed you and so has Joxer to the same result.

If you want to bring everything back to as simplistic terms as possible then it's unfortunate we live in a country that is heavily socially and economically weighted to its capital city. The whole association is unequal with relative disparity built into the county system. But it's not as simple as that either as facts will prove.

Alas, by making that statement nothing has been achieved.

seany16 (Dublin) - Posts: 1658 - 13/05/2015 10:52:10    1723070

JayP

All Ireland Final 2013: Dublin fans were outnumbered by Mayo fans.

Navan, Tullamore, Portlaoise: infrastructure is poor around the grounds, can't accommodate any more than 5-10k without severe access issues

There was much crying in Dublin about Mayo getting all those tickets even though they got an extra allocation for being in the minor match and the fact their is a Mayo man hidden away in every parish in the country.

Using access issues is a non argument. Those of us that attend championship matches on the road are well used to access issues in all grounds when they are sold out. Besides, wasn't the trow in to the All Ireland Q final in 2001 to accommodate all the Dubs who got lost trying to find Thurles.

Fact is a smaller ground, packed to the rafters would be a great atmosphere and great occasion even if Dublin won handy. Better than a half empty Croker where you can hear the players talking to each other.

There is no chance that all munster championship games will be moved to Pairc Ui Chaoimh when its finished and the Munster counties wont vote for it either.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1126 - 13/05/2015 11:47:33    1723092

But Seany,my original question was simple.If i had said "what are the multitude of reasons why Dublin play all games at home?"(HQ),i would understand a lot of these replies.On further reflection i should have opened up this topic with "How much of an advantage do Dublin enjoy playing all games at home?"Having an advantage is not really open to debate.Some of the Dubs just dont want to admit it and are quite defensive.Appreciate the replies though.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 13/05/2015 11:47:57    1723093

Here's a few novel idea's for a level playing pitch, why not narrow the goals the dubs are shooting into at Croke Park? Or players could tie cement blocks to their feet? Or maybe Dublin teams give the weaker counties their better players?

The problem is the opposition is just poor no matter where we play. There are some seriously delusional people if they think home advantage is going to make a difference. Its the new vogue topic, we've moved on from the blanket, now we are onto the Dubs home advantage, then as the dubs stroll into the latter stages of AI Finals its splitting the county into two, four is we win it.

But the one thing no one is saying is it suits the powers that be to leave it as it is and they won't change it.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4897 - 13/05/2015 13:20:44    1723155

It's so annoying when people say GAA players shouldn't be professional yet they want to maximise the amount of money coming into the organisation. It's a shame because I'd say there are genuine GAA supporters around the country that would love to watch Dublin team play in their home ground.

XPAC (Westmeath) - Posts: 86 - 13/05/2015 13:29:57    1723164

12/05/2015 21:53:43
cuederocket
County: Dublin
Posts: 2048

1723016
Joxer,it is a simple question.Do we have an advantage playing all our home league and championship games in HQ?Forget all the reasons why.Forget the excuses.The spin.The waffle.If you,like hill16,dont think so and dont believe in home advantage being beneficial,so be it.

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Hand on heart Cue, I don't know. If we were playing at home in the Neller, where Kerry, Mayo, Donegal, Tyrone have not played umpteen times, a tight pitch and very partisan crowd then I would say yes that would be an advantage. However, we are talking about the HQ here, shared ground, where the average current Kerry squad player has probably played there as much if not more than the average Dublin player so "familiarity of surroundings" does not come into it. Neither does "home support" in my opinion. Home support at Parnell Park is a lot more intimidating then home support in a half empty Croke Park where the crowd is much further back from the pitch.

If there was an advantage I would say it is slim enough. It's probably more down to preparation on the morning ahead of a game than anything else. regardless this is all academic as the situation is not going to change for the foreseeable future as I am sure you will agree.

Maybe you could give your reasons why you think it is such a big advantage (3-4 points maybe) and then you might be able to convince me. But IMO at the business end of the championship, I don't believe it makes any difference, in fact it probably spurs the opposition on. I'm sure the stats back that up. Imagine playing Donegal in a AI semi at our real home, the Neller. What venue do you think would be more advantageous to us, playing them in HQ or playing them at home in the Neller?

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 13/05/2015 14:15:40    1723206

but is at an advantage against teams in leinster joxer who rarely play at croke park?...obviously games are going to be played at croke park later on in the championship so why even mentioned those sides?..this isnt to do with them...you either believe there is a thing such as home advantage in sport or you do not...croke park has effectively become dublins home ground

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 13/05/2015 15:04:21    1723239

Fabio we have already conceded that point re weaker Leinster teams. But I'll reiterate the so called advantage ends there.

The term advantage implies a benefit which if real should be quantifiable. The stats don't add up as the championship progresses.

The early games could be viewed as favouritism, as such favouring economics over rotation, but to label the latter games an advantage is a poor argument in my view as is calling Croke Park a home ground for Dublin in the championship.

seany16 (Dublin) - Posts: 1658 - 13/05/2015 15:21:17    1723252

fabio8
County: USA
Posts: 1855

1723239
but is at an advantage against teams in leinster joxer who rarely play at croke park?...obviously games are going to be played at croke park later on in the championship so why even mentioned those sides?..this isnt to do with them...you either believe there is a thing such as home advantage in sport or you do not...croke park has effectively become dublins home ground

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Croke Park would be Dublin's home ground if only Dublin played there but this is not the case. They may play more games there but is it normal 'home advantage' if say Monaghan have played there 3 times in the last 8 months or Cork/Donegal 4 times or whatever? What other counties have home grounds were some of the opposition teams are just as familiar with the ground as the home team? Would Dublin have an advantage over Carlow at Croke Park? Yes because Carlow have not been very successful and so have not played many games there. Would it influence the result, not in the slightest, no disrespect to Carlow there. So I think against some weaker counties it would be an advantage that realistically would not effect the outcome anyway. Against more successful teams I would question the degree of advantage and against the top teams I would say there is very little and in some cases the opposition would be more psycologically advantaged playing against Dublin there than playing at home in front of a small crowd.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 13/05/2015 15:23:18    1723256

but teams are entitled to home games?...why cant you understand that?...dublin play practically all their games at croke park..obviously its an advantage.....stop being so biased..obviously carlow arent going to beat dublin but being at home would help them and it would bring a lot to carlow being able to host the dubs..the argument isnt about the later stages of the championship..who has argued that?..why are people bringing it up?..this is about the early round games in leinster or qualifiers should dublin end up in them...if the draw dictates they are away then that should be the case...obviously the bigger games will be in croke park..nobody is even arguing about that..where have i argued in relation to the later rounds of the championship?

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 13/05/2015 16:23:15    1723280

I believe Dublin to have an advantage in Croke Park.Every single game,no matter the opposition.The fact weve played all our home league games there over last few years really makes it our home ground now.Just like we had an advantage playing in Parnell Park.Just like any county in Ireland playing at home in their county grounds.It is always an advantage.Obviously it wont make a huge difference if the away team is far superior.Even so it would probably shave a few points off the end result.Its the same the world over.In most sports.In all the football leagues in England,Spain,Germany the home records for teams are vastly superior to the away form.Why is this?I mean,like hill16 says,its still only grass and 2 goalposts.Same as every other ground?Nonsense.
The Croke Park pitch is unique.Different than any other.With the huge stands surrounding it,Dublin players,by playing 4 league games,3/4 Leinster games are brilliantly prepared for the August weekend quarter final.That is 8 games approx played in HQ before we play some of the big boys.8 games for players to accustom themselves with all the little nuances and vagueries that Croke Park presents.Our players are used to every blade of grass,where the shadow envelops the pitch at times,the wind directions some days.Our forwards are used to kicking into both the hill and canal end where they get better preperation for tuning the eye into the crowds behind both goals.Same applies for our freetakers.Theres no other ground where the stand goes up so high behind the goal(canal end).Not all free-takers are used to this.Different optics if you like.Again,with all the practice,its an advantage to us.More practise,better results.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 13/05/2015 17:01:03    1723300

I dont know about home games in parnell
it never did us any favours against kerry
I dont think I ever seen dublin beat kerry in parnell park in my lifetime
partizan crowd and all as some like to call it
best i seen was a draw in 2009
we beat them twice since then in killarney
so much for home advantage
maybe its just down to which team has better players
or would that be too much sense ?????

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 13/05/2015 17:05:30    1723306

The players being able to sleep in their own beds before every game.Handy couple miles travel into the game.The complete comfort in using the same dressing room everytime(alphabetical order aside).Theres no place like home.
The massive crowds we get for the big games.The hill bursting at the seams.The colour.The noise.Intimidating for a lot of teams.Especially when we score a goal.Maybe not for the big boys,but in my opinion its an advantage.
David Brady,last night,said 81% of home teams were victorious in the league(not sure if this year or last).Can u explain why this is?I mean,its only grass and 2 goalposts.Same as every other ground?That is a whopping advantage.4 out of every 5 home games are victorious.And lets not be kidding ourselves here,Croke Park is our home ground now.Granted Cork/Kerry/Mayo/Tyrone might play 1 or 2 games there every year before they get to play us,but we play there approx 8 times every year.Were used to it more than anyone.Were used to everything about it.
I think its an advantage no matter who we play.Its not going to help us beat a far superior team.Even when we lose at HQ,its still an advantage.Winning or losing is not the sole arbiter on whether its an advantage or not.Its hard to put a definitive figure on it,but id say its worth 2/3 points approx v the likes of Kerry.It could be worth anything v the weaker teams,a lot of which are beaten before they take to the pitch.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 13/05/2015 17:17:46    1723312

il tell you exactly why 81% of home teams may have won
because people buy into this just like you
therefore most of them dont believe they can win the match simply because they are in the other teams ground
and 90% of them are beaten before they take to do the pitch because of this attitude
its all psychological,in the mind,fiction,call it what you like
theres no physical advantage
its just like a boxer mouthing off before a fight
trying to get into the other fighters head and get one up on him before they even get into the ring
the only way he can effect the other fighter is if the other fighter lets it effect him
just like playing a match in the other teams ground

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 13/05/2015 18:05:05    1723330

fabio8
County: USA
Posts: 1859

1723280
but teams are entitled to home games?...why cant you understand that?...dublin play practically all their games at croke park..obviously its an advantage.....stop being so biased..obviously carlow arent going to beat dublin but being at home would help them and it would bring a lot to carlow being able to host the dubs..the argument isnt about the later stages of the championship..who has argued that?..why are people bringing it up?..this is about the early round games in leinster or qualifiers should dublin end up in them...if the draw dictates they are away then that should be the case...obviously the bigger games will be in croke park..nobody is even arguing about that..where have i argued in relation to the later rounds of the championship?

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But then why will round 2 on in Leinster be in Croke Park for ALL counties. Why will Meath be allowed play ? at Dublin's 'home ground' in the championship? Is Meath's accumulation of games in Croke Park not an unfair advantage to Meath when they get out of Leinster? Ask Carlow footballers where they would rather play Dublin in the championship. What do you think they would say? In fact we practically know as they vote on this through the LC every year. Chances are if Dublin end up in the qualifiers then it will be in a large venue other than Croke Park but can you not see the impossibility of hosting Dublin's approx 20K season ticket holders in grounds like Carlow?

So to sum up, yes as I stated it is an advantage for Dublin to play teams like Carlow in CP as their players have not played their frequently. I don't think there is any disputing this. It's just a pity that Carlow and the other counties don't make home venue a stipulation of the draw but of course then the season ticket issue rears it's head so it's a moot point anyway.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 13/05/2015 18:35:01    1723349

Psychology certainly plays a part hill.It is the 1 aspect of home advantage that you are correct about.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 13/05/2015 19:04:11    1723356

the most ironic thing about the last 2 pages is the face that the last time we played Carlow..........it was in Carlow!

I have never seen us play Carlow in Dublin!!

Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8166 - 13/05/2015 19:05:36    1723358

81% hill?In all 4 divisions.Up and down the country.4 out of every 5 home teams win.You have been talking balderdash,gibberish and utter nonsense for a long time now in regards home advantage only being a myth in sport.All the statistics prove you wrong.Time and again.Your only fooling yourself on this one because your certainly not hoodwinking me.Home,sweet home baby!

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 13/05/2015 19:09:51    1723360

cuedrocket
its the only aspect of any sort of home advantage
you still have not given one reason as to their can physically be an advantage to playing a game at home

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 13/05/2015 19:15:16    1723362