Cue, i've already conceded that playing weak Leinster teams in Croker is an advantage. If you want we can extend that out to other weak counties around the country. Does the latter point matter? In one way it does but in practical terms it doesn't as those teams are not in division one and tend not to reach the All Ireland series. Also of late, Dublin tend not to play in the qualifiers. But to answer your question is it fair? Well yes i do believe it is fair. Absolutely. Simply for the reasons i've put forth and the fact that i find it impossible to apologize for what is another fact that Croke Park happens to be located in Dublin. If it was unfair as you point out i would expect to see an advantage materialise somewhere. However there is no evidence to support such a claim. Our record playing in Croke Park is clear to see.

seany16 (Dublin) - Posts: 1658 - 08/05/2015 18:06:40    1721630

Getting real bored with this year after year. Richie q has all the inside knowledge of how things work and definitely loves to get his anti dublin slant into most arguments. I honestly couldn't care less if dublin played every game away from croke park as I will be there. This argument seems to degenerate into a culchie v dub divide. You know if this current team were not at the level they have been in terms of winning things the it wouldn't be mentioned. In terms of the quality of navan, I attended the o Byrne cup game this year and it was cracking in terms of atmosphere but leaving aside whether it needs to be redeveloped or not the organisation at a basic level was a disaster. 45 minutes before the game, patrons were outside the ground trying to buy tickets from one booth and then hand it in at the turnstile. No discernable queues. Attitude of the officials was highlighted when one said to a group of supporters if ye arrived on time there would be no problems. Inside the pipes were burst in the toilets under the terrace with water gushing out of them. After the game it took over an hour to get out of navan as the traffic control was practically non existent. These are examples of the most basic of things which need to be in place. As I said the majority of real dublin supporters would embrace going to play in tullamore, portlaoise etc. etc. Not really an issue which a team manager should have to answer questions on as he enough to do preparing the team.

Adamski (Dublin) - Posts: 339 - 08/05/2015 18:27:33    1721638

sportsfan14
County: USA
Posts: 176

1721627
Richieq
County: Meath
Posts: 2060

completely agree but think Navan is held up with Health and Safety rules which weren't there 20 years ago. I think the grass banks are off limits now as well?

Yea that's correct but even back in the day the capacity of Navan was 30'000 which is considered inadequate now, Dublin went to Pearse Park, Longford in 2005 where the capacity was around 17'000 and their support base was no smaller then than today. This notion that a team can only play in one stadium because of their support base is nonsense, imagine trying to employ that logic in the Premier League, Manchester United would never leave Old Trafford to visit the smaller grounds like Loftus Road or Turf Moor. It's all a smoke screen by Leinster Council, by their logic they only care about the Dublin supporters having enough room to see their players, to hell with those that have to travel to Croke Park and incur the expense associated with it for a quarter or semi final of Leinster where they will inevitably see their team swamped by a team used to playing in the national stadium whether it's full, half full or near empty

Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3734 - 08/05/2015 18:39:48    1721642

look
lets use myself as an example
ok i am going to Dubs games for 30 years now.
The best craic i have had EVER at a match, incl all ireland wins, leinster wins league wins etc etc was in Thurles in 2001
My uncle who was in Cork in 83 cites that as teh greatetst day he has ever had
The best match i was at for stories to come home with (among other things to come home with) was Longford about 8 years ago or so.

i would absolutely LOVE to play Meath in Navan, Louth in Drogheda (or navan), kildare in newbridge, Carlow in Dr Cullen, Wexford in Wexford or Nolan PArk etc etc.
Loais in Portlaois, or Offaly in Tullamore etc etc.

You would get atmosphere, craic, money spent and at the end of the day we would still win but so would local economies.

The Leinster champ is dying a horrible death. It has become of little consequence to anyone anymore.
Take us down the country and watch it revive itself. Its so obvious, its so easy.

And Richie, your the only ones who cant see that its NOTHING to do with the Dubs, its not our call and its not our choice.
Its the Leinster Council, and guess what, your own County reps, are on that board!
So take it up with them, because to be honest Pal, we dont need any help to beat ye anymore.

No disrespect to the other Royals on here, but this fella.....!!

Sorry now Liam but have you any ability to grasp what I'm saying???? I have acknowledged numerous times that it is Leinster Council that is too blame and have highlighted such again here, I am not anti Dublin and to suggest such is unfair, if you want to go down the road of reminding us all of your dominance instead of looking at the issue at hand fine but don't twist my arguments into being anti Dub, for clarity I state again

Dublin should have their own fit for purpose county ground
Dublin should not, in the interest of fairness, play all National League home games and Championship games in Croke Park.
It is Leinster Council who have caused this distortion in relation to Championship, they are allowing money and their belief that continual Dublin success is the only way they can financially survive to cloud their opinion on what is fair to all counties.
Central Council should discuss with Dublin what options are available to develop a fit for purpose stadium for Dublin's use, not a multi county stadium as previously proposed on the M50

Anything anti Dub there to rattle your cage Liam........

Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3734 - 08/05/2015 18:59:23    1721647

Westmeath had their first home Leinster Championship game in 13 years, vs Carlow last year. I can't imagine the dubs going that long without a home game, and don't say Croke Park isn't a home venue because it is.

iarmhi_an_mhaith (Westmeath) - Posts: 268 - 08/05/2015 19:32:22    1721652

Adamski
County: Dublin
Posts: 105

1721638
Getting real bored with this year after year. Richie q has all the inside knowledge of how things work and definitely loves to get his anti dublin slant into most arguments. I honestly couldn't care less if dublin played every game away from croke park as I will be there. This argument seems to degenerate into a culchie v dub divide. You know if this current team were not at the level they have been in terms of winning things the it wouldn't be mentioned. In terms of the quality of navan, I attended the o Byrne cup game this year and it was cracking in terms of atmosphere but leaving aside whether it needs to be redeveloped or not the organisation at a basic level was a disaster. 45 minutes before the game, patrons were outside the ground trying to buy tickets from one booth and then hand it in at the turnstile. No discernable queues. Attitude of the officials was highlighted when one said to a group of supporters if ye arrived on time there would be no problems. Inside the pipes were burst in the toilets under the terrace with water gushing out of them. After the game it took over an hour to get out of navan as the traffic control was practically non existent. These are examples of the most basic of things which need to be in place. As I said the majority of real dublin supporters would embrace going to play in tullamore, portlaoise etc. etc. Not really an issue which a team manager should have to answer questions on as he enough to do preparing the team.

It is very easy to accuse someone of being anti dub on this topic when you have nothing constructive to offer the argument, again I am not anti Dub and have highlighted that in my response to Liam above. In relation to your observations on Navan yes I agree with all the physical faults you mention, much work is going in to rectify the place as best as possible for our first home Leinster match in 20 years on June 14th but the stadium needs a complete overhaul on all four sides, but so does Newbridge, so does Drogheda, Mullingar needs a new stand, Longford needs a new terrace at one end, Dr Cullen Park in Carlow needs new terracing and the last time I was there new toilets too, so Navan isn't on its own. If the money created by Dublin is so great and so important then why do problems you highlighted in Navan still exist?? Why doesn't Leinster Council use some of the large pile of cash they have earned with Dublin gates since 2005 to improve grounds. Meath have applied for funding from both Leinster and Central Councils but no word as yet, they did get funding to finish off our new training centre in Dunganny but that facility is in development since the 90's and only being competed now. Why have grounds like Pairc Tailteann and St Conleths Park, two grounds that in the past were regularly used for provincial games, allowed to become so bad?? Because Leinster Council doesn't want to aid their improvement, they don't want any more reasons to remove Dublin from Croke Park and lessen their pot of gold which in my opinion my own county has got scant pickings from over the years give the population growth and size of Meath, notice how I state Leinster Council not Dublin. I have no inside track, I am not involved at county level or in any administration role but I know people that are and I have enough common sense thank god to realise what exactly the decision makers in portlaoise are doing, so again I'm not anti Dub but I am anti consistent use of Croke Park by one county

Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3734 - 08/05/2015 19:54:12    1721661

iarmhi_an_mhaith
County: Westmeath
Posts: 120

1721652
Westmeath had their first home Leinster Championship game in 13 years, vs Carlow last year. I can't imagine the dubs going that long without a home game, and don't say Croke Park isn't a home venue because it is.
------
Yes well everyone knows that Croke Park is in Dublin. If it was 15km north of were it is situated, in Clonee Co Meath, and Dublin played all of their games there then you would still be complaining. Isn't that true? Now imagine this second scenario, Westmeath bring an average of 15000 to their championship games. Imagine that they have 10000 season ticket holders holders who have a contract with the Leinster council whereby thet are guaranteed a ticket for a chalpionship game. Now imagine that Mullingar was the only ground in the country that could guarantee capacity to meet that demand. See where this is going????

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 08/05/2015 20:08:09    1721667

this boring thread again!!!!!
answer me this dublin played leinster championship matches outside croker up until 2006
in that time how many times did dublin loose outside of croke park
I have never in my life time seen dublin loose a leinster championship game outside croker
as far as im aware 1973 was the last time they did loose one
since the year 2000
kildare,meath,westmeath,laois have all beaten dublin in croke park and wexford drew with us.
if anything this goes to show you have more chance of beating us there
as any smart manager will have his team fully tuned in and built up to play in croke park
where as for dublin they wont be as built up and could be caught on the hop far easier
than say if we played offaly or longford away as they would way more on guard.

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 08/05/2015 20:23:31    1721672

Richie Q. Come on now what funding is needed to organise proper queuing outside a crowd, fix a few pipes and have some sort of traffic plan. I attended a junior club final in Navan a few years back and there were no toliet facilities open for ladies under the terraces. Shocking to say the least. Sure maybe Meath and Louth should go into a ground sharing scenario outside Drogheda. Not anti dublin, come on be honest.

Adamski (Dublin) - Posts: 339 - 08/05/2015 20:55:17    1721680

Of course its an advantage playing in Croker with up to 80% of the crowd roaring us on.To deny this is just plain daft.
It is equally daft to blame Dublin for it as its not down to us, its the GAA who want to cash in on Dublin's huge support.
It also daft to say its such an advantage that it has a bearing on the result, we would be winning those games anyway or at least 90% of them.

Condorman (Dublin) - Posts: 983 - 09/05/2015 10:19:59    1721702

08/05/2015 20:55:17
Adamski
County: Dublin
Posts: 106

1721680
Richie Q. Come on now what funding is needed to organise proper queuing outside a crowd, fix a few pipes and have some sort of traffic plan. I attended a junior club final in Navan a few years back and there were no toliet facilities open for ladies under the terraces. Shocking to say the least. Sure maybe Meath and Louth should go into a ground sharing scenario outside Drogheda. Not anti dublin, come on be honest.

Proper queuing is a common sense issue I agree, Navan has had a few pipes fixed for years, this is the issue the County Board have been throwing good money after bad patching up things that have outlived their usefulness which is why a total upgrade is repaired, toilets are a disgrace and if no female facilities were available well that's just plain wrong, were they available on the stand side??. In all fairness traffic plans in Navan are the remit of An Garda Siochana and the County Council so I don't think Meath GAA can take the blame there. As for ground sharing with Louth, well no disrespect but no, pride of place is important as well as contributing to your local economy, Pairc Tailteann is our home and we want it to stay that way

Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3734 - 09/05/2015 11:31:23    1721713

There's a huge echo on this forum :D

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8596 - 09/05/2015 13:39:05    1721739

Richieq
County: Meath
Posts: 2064


Is it in the culchies hands how many "home" league games Dublin play in Croke Park?? Is it not Leinster Council who are elected to, amongst other things, run the provincial championships and organise venues?? Why don't they do the job they are supposed to do, because they are afraid that's why. Leinster Council dare not upset the blue cash cow so they make the other counties vote on venues and make veil threats about continued funding availability if the Dubs are outside of Croke Park. It's a total smoke screen that would not be accepted in any other sporting organisation anywhere else in the world that one team has complete use of the national stadium for each and every fixture and not only that get to dominate the use of one end of that ground to suck the ball into the goals.....

It is completely in the hands of the culchies to take Dublin outta Croke Park.

Dublin play their home league games in Croker because the GAA wants the rent money. The GAA is not run by the Dublin County Board and if the other county boards wish for the GAA to refuse the Dubs request for Croker during the league then we'd be back in Parell quick enough.

All counties in Leinster are represented on the Leinster council. It's 11 to 1 against the Dubs, very easy to put the Dubs on the road.

Listen we all know it is in the post, just as soon as the culchies stop complaining about it and actually do something about it. It is entirely in the gift of the rest of the country that Dublin get such use outta Croker.

It is just a little strange that culchies seem at the moment more interested in complaining about the issue rathe than changing it, which they could easily achieve.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13718 - 09/05/2015 15:04:31    1721753

I think its a poor return of 24 all irelands from the dubs. If you look at other teams such as Chelsea in the premier league and kerrys 20 year unbeaten championship record in fitzgerald stadium, they have a very strong home record and if teams like this played at home every week they would be unstoppable.

I feel we would have over 50 titles if we were allowed do this and the dubs should be dissapointed with their return of all irelands.

KY4SAM2015 (Kerry) - Posts: 898 - 09/05/2015 15:14:16    1721757

No real advantage when it comes to the teams that are up to winning the games anyway. Flanagan and a few others are never going to manage all Ireland senior champions and he is simply making excuses before the inevitable happens. There is no major advantage otherwise Dublin would win every year but sure its handier when you come from a county that concentrates on just the one sport. OK a bit of hurling and maybe an oval ball here and there but essentially its the counties that concentrate on one code that are more likely to get the most out of what they have.
Dublin do OK considering the draw on young players to several different distractions.
Sure we'll do our best and to hell with the begrudgers.

Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 09/05/2015 15:55:57    1721764

KY4SAM2015
County: Kerry
Posts: 41

1721757 I think its a poor return of 24 all irelands from the dubs. If you look at other teams such as Chelsea in the premier league and kerrys 20 year unbeaten championship record in fitzgerald stadium, they have a very strong home record and if teams like this played at home every week they would be unstoppable.

I feel we would have over 50 titles if we were allowed do this and the dubs should be dissapointed with their return of all irelands.

What a stupid post.

superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2837 - 09/05/2015 16:20:53    1721772

ok i am wrong..
maybe 49

KY4SAM2015 (Kerry) - Posts: 898 - 09/05/2015 16:37:16    1721781

amazing not one person looks at the facts
dublin last time beaten outside croker in leinster championship 1973
dublin beaten 5 times in croker in leinster championship since 2000
by 4 differant counties

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 09/05/2015 19:50:06    1721847

nobody is saying dublin wouldnt win...has anybody said that?..if so show me where?..just it would be more competitive is all and each team deserves their share of home games just like in any other sport

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 09/05/2015 20:35:01    1721857

The fact is hill,we play every game at home.Its pretty simple.I believe it to be an advantage.Forget all the reasons why.Forget how many times weve lost outside of Croke Park back in the day.I have no problem in saying we have an advantage playing every game at HQ.100%

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 09/05/2015 20:43:21    1721862