laois 2012?..the result was never in doubt nor the meath game....kildare were one of the best teams in the country at the time

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 14/05/2015 13:10:49    1723609

this is the type of objectivity we have on this forum...a man comparing how longford do against the dubs with kildare and meath....truly no understanding of the challenges smaller counties face

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 14/05/2015 13:12:51    1723614

fabio8
County: USA
Posts: 1872

1723602
you deny home advantage has any role in sport....ask anybody in soccer if they agree with you or rugby...i doubt you find many..the only reason you are pushing this viewpoint is because it is your own team that is benefiting from playing at home...it is systematically wrong for 1 team to get to play inferior teams at home all the time...both on the playing field and also the boost playing dublin would give a local economy

there is actualy an advantage to playing away from home in soccer
take the champions league for example, away goals count double if the aggregate scoreline is level
therefore you get an advantage if you score away from home over at home.
I dont feel we are benifiting i just think this is coming up because we have a good team
pundits argued that in the 2000s the fact we played in croker hampered dublin psychologicaly
as the pressure of playing in full houses was playing on them
so which is it ? the only thing i can see is that people are running with the hare and hunting with the hound
the underlining fact of both cases is that its all psychological and not physical
i have always rathered playing away from home for my club too
as i look at it as theres going to be people at the game from that club who have never seen you play before
so it motivates me to impress and have them go away thinking your man was a good player.
you say it like croke park is dublins ground only, dublin may have played more matches there simply because the ground is
in dublin, if the ground was in meath or kildare and had that capacity do you not think dublin would be playing
these games there too? would you have a problem with it then?

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 14/05/2015 13:25:40    1723625

fabio8
County: USA
Posts: 1873

1723609
laois 2012?..the result was never in doubt nor the meath game....kildare were one of the best teams in the country at the time

haha only for an own goal laois would have won the game
had mccauleys fisted effort not hit laois player i doubt you would be saying that.
meath and kildare games were very similiar they both came late with a rally and almost stole it.
haha exactly your last point kind of makes the whole thing
kildare were better then hence why the games were closer
croke park has not changed for them

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 14/05/2015 13:29:01    1723628

fabio8
County: USA
Posts: 1873

1723614
this is the type of objectivity we have on this forum...a man comparing how longford do against the dubs with kildare and meath....truly no understanding of the challenges smaller counties face

how longford did against dublin a competly different bunch of players 10 years ago haha
thats your only reference to me that shows your thinking
one match against 40 odd years of wins outside dublin without a defeat
wexford area smaller county yet they managed a draw against a better dublin team in croke park

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 14/05/2015 13:32:40    1723630

your only arguing there is no such thing as home advantage cause your own side benefits from it..your whole viewpoint is laughable and biased..obviously im going to bring up the longford match considering its the last time the dubs played outside croke park in leinster and there was a huge difference between how competitive the match was between the 1 in croke park the year before and the 1 in longford..it isnt because you have a good team..its because its unfair...stop looking at the argument like a fan...argue objectiivty...do you not care about the gaa or only your own team alone?

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 14/05/2015 17:05:33    1723730

Joxer , I'm sure you are an intelligent and articulate guy , come on though man , playing at home is an advantage in almost all sports in the world . You's would probably win on the moon at present the way you's are playing but that doesn't really matter .

Can anyone tell me why the other Leinster counties voted to have it this way ? Is it financial gain ??

TheRightStuff (Donegal) - Posts: 1688 - 14/05/2015 17:32:07    1723739

fabio8
County: USA
Posts: 1877

1723730
your only arguing there is no such thing as home advantage cause your own side benefits from it..your whole viewpoint is laughable and biased..obviously im going to bring up the longford match considering its the last time the dubs played outside croke park in leinster and there was a huge difference between how competitive the match was between the 1 in croke park the year before and the 1 in longford..it isnt because you have a good team..its because its unfair...stop looking at the argument like a fan...argue objectiivty...do you not care about the gaa or only your own team alone?

I already stated i rather playing away from home myself as a club player
so i fail to see why you keep repeating the same line that its only because dublin play in croker.
yes but you could also bring up the last two mayo matches in this years league and last years
last year we drew with them in croke park and this year we hammered them in mchale park
you could go one step further and reference the monaghan games in the space of 7 days
the first one in clones we hammered them and the second one in croke park we only one by a single point.

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 14/05/2015 17:43:34    1723745

fabio8
County: USA
Posts: 1877

If you cannot separate the difference between what is Croke Park for Dublin and Old Trafford for Man Utd then that is your problem. The soccer comparison isn't legitimate but if you insist on one i'd already mentioned it would probably be somewhat similar to Chelsea or Arsenal playing all their games in Wembley.

I've no problem having what is a necessary debate whether Dublin's opening games should be outside headquarters but calling all games after that advantageous as some have is pure and simple nonsense.

seany16 (Dublin) - Posts: 1658 - 14/05/2015 18:07:49    1723758

TheRightStuff
County: Donegal
Posts: 621

1723739
Joxer , I'm sure you are an intelligent and articulate guy , come on though man , playing at home is an advantage in almost all sports in the world . You's would probably win on the moon at present the way you's are playing but that doesn't really matter .

Can anyone tell me why the other Leinster counties voted to have it this way ? Is it financial gain ??

-------
Well TRS I actually didn't say that it wasn't an advantage. I said that any advantage is diluted to virtually 0 if not opposite, opposition more psychologically up for it in Croker against the Dubs, in the latter stages. If you ask a lot of older Meath players about playing Dublin in Croker, they will tell you that they loved it as it was a chance to stick it to the Dubs, raise a fist at the Hill. I definitely think that the top teams view it this way and CP would hold no fear, in fact it spurs them on. The arrangement is abnormal as this 'home ground' is shared with all other counties. How many times have Donegal played there in the last 12 months? How many times have Kerry played in Letterkenny in the last 12 months? See what I mean?

Cue still hasn't answered this but maybe you will. I gave a hypothetical scenario above. Donegal are drawn against Dublin in the AI semi and Dublin are 'at home' in Croke Park. However, Donegal are given the option of playing Dublin in Croke Park or Parnell Park (Dublin's real home pitch). Look at my post above and what I think the pros and cons would be and let me know what venue Donegal would choose and why?

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 14/05/2015 18:35:40    1723770

TheRightStuff
County: Donegal
Posts: 621

1723739
Joxer , I'm sure you are an intelligent and articulate guy , come on though man , playing at home is an advantage in almost all sports in the world . You's would probably win on the moon at present the way you's are playing but that doesn't really matter .

Can anyone tell me why the other Leinster counties voted to have it this way ? Is it financial gain ??

-------
Well TRS I actually didn't say that it wasn't an advantage. I said that any advantage is diluted to virtually 0 if not opposite, opposition more psychologically up for it in Croker against the Dubs, in the latter stages. If you ask a lot of older Meath players about playing Dublin in Croker, they will tell you that they loved it as it was a chance to stick it to the Dubs, raise a fist at the Hill. I definitely think that the top teams view it this way and CP would hold no fear, in fact it spurs them on. The arrangement is abnormal as this 'home ground' is shared with all other counties. How many times have Donegal played there in the last 12 months? How many times have Kerry played in Letterkenny in the last 12 months? See what I mean?

Cue still hasn't answered this but maybe you will. I gave a hypothetical scenario above. Donegal are drawn against Dublin in the AI semi and Dublin are 'at home' in Croke Park. However, Donegal are given the option of playing Dublin in Croke Park or Parnell Park (Dublin's real home pitch). Look at my post above and what I think the pros and cons would be and let me know what venue Donegal would choose and why?

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 14/05/2015 18:38:00    1723772

TheRightStuff
County: Donegal
Posts: 621

1723739
Joxer , I'm sure you are an intelligent and articulate guy , come on though man , playing at home is an advantage in almost all sports in the world . You's would probably win on the moon at present the way you's are playing but that doesn't really matter .

Can anyone tell me why the other Leinster counties voted to have it this way ? Is it financial gain ??

All Leinster counties get a cut of what money comes in during the Leinster championship from attendances.
If Dublin play outside crokepark lets say Tullamore against Offaly. the crowd will obviously be smaller than a game in Croker so other county boards will get less money. This is why last year all the Leinster counties were asked what they wanted to happen as regards Dublin.

Every county bar Laois voted to keep the Dubs in croker.
Its not right, but what can we do.

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 14/05/2015 21:37:29    1723815

AthCliath
County: Dublin
Posts: 3701

1723815
TheRightStuff
County: Donegal
Posts: 621

1723739
Joxer , I'm sure you are an intelligent and articulate guy , come on though man , playing at home is an advantage in almost all sports in the world . You's would probably win on the moon at present the way you's are playing but that doesn't really matter .

Can anyone tell me why the other Leinster counties voted to have it this way ? Is it financial gain ??

All Leinster counties get a cut of what money comes in during the Leinster championship from attendances.
If Dublin play outside crokepark lets say Tullamore against Offaly. the crowd will obviously be smaller than a game in Croker so other county boards will get less money. This is why last year all the Leinster counties were asked what they wanted to happen as regards Dublin.

Every county bar Laois voted to keep the Dubs in croker.
Its not right, but what can we do.

-So much for the GAA being amateur. The only amateurs are the players who train all year and put up with this kind of crap

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1126 - 15/05/2015 08:30:41    1723830

Joxer : first of all , I must admit , I had not all of the posts . That's an interesting one although it hard to get my head around because it won't ever . I think the point of the thread is the familiarity the Dubs have in Croker . To answer your question , I would rather Donegal V Dublin in Croke Park However if Ballybofey had a 50,000 all seater , I would choose it because we would be more used to it . The only down side would be that the night life in Ballybofey is dire compared to Dublin .

Listen Joxer , as I've said on numerous times , it's not Dublin's fault and I think they would win anywhere . My problem mainly is the Dubs playing their league matches at HQ , I've been to Parnell PK about 5 times . Always felt I met the true blue in their : nice compact ground . Anyway , we have our own worries on Sunday )

TheRightStuff (Donegal) - Posts: 1688 - 15/05/2015 14:56:23    1724028

well you would say that hill...thats the league...this discussion has nothing to do with the league..all its about is the championship...stop only arguing for your own team...answer the question...do you care about only dublin or do you care about the gaa?..the system is completely unfair on teams especially those in leinster and it should be got rid of as soon as possible...being able to host the dubs will be a big help both for the towns and also the teams themselves...at the end of the day they are going to lose but it will be a hell of a lot better than a hiding in croke park where yet again the dublin economy will benefit from the game instead of spreading the game to other counties where other local economies can benefit

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 15/05/2015 15:09:55    1724042

TheRightStuff
County: Donegal
Posts: 622

1724028
Joxer : first of all , I must admit , I had not all of the posts . That's an interesting one although it hard to get my head around because it won't ever . I think the point of the thread is the familiarity the Dubs have in Croker . To answer your question , I would rather Donegal V Dublin in Croke Park However if Ballybofey had a 50,000 all seater , I would choose it because we would be more used to it . The only down side would be that the night life in Ballybofey is dire compared to Dublin .

----
Yeah you see I would expect any half-decent county to say they would rather play Dublin in Croke Park than in Parnel Park because that county will be much more familiar with Croker. That in turn is because Croker is not Dublin's home ground. It is a shared ground at which Dublin, due to size and location, play more often than other counties. Trust me the Dubs would love to play up in Ballybofey in the championship if it was possible. We had great craic up in Derry many years ago.

As regards the league, I have said it many times on here, I would much rather see us play in Parnell but it simply doesn't have the capacity unfortunately. So for the forseeable future, the Dubs will be in Croke Park for the league. There is no alternative, unless a suitable venue is built.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 15/05/2015 15:30:23    1724058

joxer i understand what you mean in that the likes of kerry croke park isnt much of a disadvantage because they are so used to it year after year...croke park isnt exactly wembley though cause dublin play there all the time..all iv been arguing is that for those that normally dont play there it is a huge disadvantage compared to playing at home..people should stop comparing mayo to longford and actually try to understand the point...instead of comparing like for like

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 15/05/2015 16:09:04    1724070

Joxer - that's fair enough . Anyway , the bottom line is that the other Leinster counties voted for it so one cannot complain too much as it seems it's been a fairly democratic process . There also comes a time when the other counties in Leinster should simply pull up their own socks . I know this is slightly of topic but Kildare and Meath should have no excuses , big populations and football mad counties . Thankfully we got our house in order ; particularly under Jim . Our CB didn't have much resources so he canvassed around and got money etc to fund our sides lavish trips away and so on . He didn't let the squad feel sorry for themselves . Anyway , that's of topic but you catch my drift )

TheRightStuff (Donegal) - Posts: 1688 - 16/05/2015 12:06:32    1724185

tirawleybaron

-So much for the GAA being amateur. The only amateurs are the players who train all year and put up with this kind of crap

Someone or something has to pay for everything - Dublin are a revenue stream, that is the short and tall of it. The arguments for/against are pointless.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4897 - 16/05/2015 14:19:12    1724207

not blaming dublin they can only do what they can with the hand they are dealt...the blame rests solely with the administrators and various counties boards who have allowed the leinster council to bully them into voting yes to games in croke park

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 16/05/2015 15:22:00    1724212