Cue, your not comparing like for like in my book. Omagh, Castlebar and Tralee are provincial grounds under the ownership and control of the relevant counties. Croke Park is the show piece national stadium under the ownership and control of the entire GAA. Dublin playing an AI semi in Castlebar would favour Mayo no doubt as Dublin lack the experience of playing there for such occasions. Mayo complained about the choice of Limerick last year for the same reason. But if there was another national ground heavily used by all counties in Mayo or Cork etc in a similar guise of what Croker is then I would see no advantage to Mayo or Cork.

Mayo and Kerry cannot reasonably argue they lack experience in Croke Park. They can play there up to 5 times a year.

If I'm not mistaken the last time we played a championship game in Cork we won well and the huge Dublin crowd present undoubtably helped.

It's all psychological, but if anyone is going to compare it's important to compare like for like.

seany16 (Dublin) - Posts: 1658 - 08/05/2015 15:20:47    1721572

Seany im only making those comparisons in response to you saying we have no advantage playing the likes of Kerry or Mayo in Croke Park.Your the one who went off point.My original post says that playing early rounds in Leinster v weaker counties is grossly unfair.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 08/05/2015 15:31:17    1721576

i dont belive that this is about fairness. dublin are by far the best team in leinster its just about trying to put a bit of novelty and life back into the boring leinster championship. how many times have u been to the leinster semi finals with say meath v kildare at 2pm and dubs v laois or wexford at 4 pm? what happens there is about 20,000 in for meath v kildare, when that game is over at least 10,000 of these fans leave or are def gone inside the first half of dublin game. the amount of people that stream out of croker after the first game is unreal in the last 5 years just because the dublin game wont be a contest or they wanna just beat traffic or have a jar. so the dubs come in and bring say 30,000 so your left with about 35-40000 at croker for dublin game. the attendance will say 55,000 but there woont have been more than 30-35,000 in there at any one time.

my point is they should play leinster semi finals on two seperate w.ends one after the other. in perhaps provincial venues. meath v kildare in portlaise and dubs v wexford in kilkenny for example. why was this ok in the 90s but not now?
in 1995 dublin played laois in navan in leinster semi final and meath played wicklow in portlaoise in the other semi final. dublin had a hugefollowing that time so why not try it?

dickie10 (UK) - Posts: 693 - 08/05/2015 15:38:09    1721579

I don't think you will find many people who will disagree with you regarding early rounds against weaker counties. It ends there though. If Meath were strong and dominating Leinster they would almost certainly play all their championship games in Croke Park, just like the Kilkenny hurlers. Would a strong Meath with a couple of All Ireland's behind them playing Longford in Croke Park be unfair, I think it would.

But considering All Leinster semi finals are in Croke Park and it's open seating I stand by my original point. Any advantage ends there.

I respect your point, I just don't agree.

seany16 (Dublin) - Posts: 1658 - 08/05/2015 15:48:41    1721580

For a lot of the counties in Leinster, playing Dublin is unfair regardless of where they play them, its not how the Championship should be run but we have enough talk on that. As a player from a weaker county you want your day in Croker as a fan you want to see your county play at home. Its the same old problem - you bring Dublin to a 30K capacity ground for the championship and you don't have any kids tickets and tickets are 20 euro. I say hire an bus and go to croker with the club and the kids - its a much better day out. As a kid I always wanted to see Wexford playing in Croke Park for a young lad its a dream as well that one day he will get out there and avenge the hammering his weaker Leinster county just got!

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1805 - 08/05/2015 15:48:46    1721581

Dublin should be out of Croker for every second game in the Leinster Champ. Same way as it works for every other county.

The GAA is slowly but surely turning into a bit of a circus

pdempsey (Mayo) - Posts: 1313 - 08/05/2015 15:55:52    1721585

Dublin is effectively a province in it's own right. You'd nearly want to enter them into the Railway Cup. The rest of Leinster itself is big enough for two provinces. The Railway Cup could be revamped to a 6 team competition:
Ulster
Munster
Connaught
Dublin
North Leinster
South Leinster

6 nations format but with a final between the top 2. It's hard to know if the inter-county support would get behind such a provincial setup. In theory it would be a higher level of competition with the cream of the best players in each province taking part.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7871 - 08/05/2015 16:06:53    1721590

Its like Man Utd getting to play all their home league games and fa cup games at Old Trafford,no matter who its against,including the final.Fellow Dubs,do ye think its fair?

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 08/05/2015 16:07:22    1721591

Nobody is blaming the Dubs for this. We know its the Leinster Council. The Slattery report slashed capacity figures of stadiums with the stroke of a pencil. They could get them back up with a few changes. Donegal got Ballybofey back from 12k to 18k by installing a few more turnstiles etc

It would be fairer on the smaller teams and would also be a better spectical for the fans to see 30k crammed into a smaller ground for Dublins first match in the championship rather than 33k in a half empty Croke Park

The Dublin fans will also start to stay away even more with lack of competition in Leinster driving down that attendance in Croker. But the powers that be wont act unless Croker starts to go sub 20k for early Leinster matches.Its a joke that Kildare and Meath have such poor grounds and Leinster counil and GAA have delibrately not bothered their holes to do something about it rather moving more matches to Dublin.

shaggykev (Donegal) - Posts: 203 - 08/05/2015 16:17:22    1721595

If you want a soccer comparison allowing for obvious differences it's probably akin to Chelsea playing all their champions league games in Wembley having already played all their league games there. Chelsea are from London, Wembley is in London but every knockout game is also played in Wembley. Barcelona and Real come to Wembley for all their knockout games. Real have won all 7 of their European Cups in Wembley. The teams near Wembley also use it for most of their group champions league games. And of course, this scenario would have been in place for a very long time.

seany16 (Dublin) - Posts: 1658 - 08/05/2015 16:37:10    1721599

The Magic Weekend is an annual event organized by the Rugby Football League. An entire round of Super League matches is played over one weekend in a single stadium to showcase the sport of rugby league.

The GAA could run something like the above during the national football league. Each division has 8 teams, 7 games in each division. One round of action in each division could be played in Croke Park as follows:

NFL round 1: All division 1 games in Croke Park
NFL round 2: All division 2 games in Croke Park
NFL round 3: All division 3 games in Croke Park
NFL round 4: All division 4 games in Croke Park

Teams would get 3 home games, 1 Croke Park game and 3 away games. Croke Park is based in the capital. The advantage of one quarter-final is being overstated. I don't think there can be any complaints about Leinster semi-finals and final in Croke Park.

The more pressing matter is the Leinster seeding system. It's fair enough to give semi-finalists a bye to the quarter-finals. It's a bit much however to keep the semi-finalists a part in the draw. The quarter-final draw should be an open draw.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7871 - 08/05/2015 16:41:56    1721602

Enter Jim Gavin......

"I think, as the Leinster chairman said, it's about letting people see the games live," he said. "Provincial stadiums might not have the capacity to hold the games.
"I think it's the support base we have. If you get 30,000-plus people at a championship game, there are very few provincial grounds that could carry it.


"The Leinster Council have taken the decision to facilitate supporters because we'll travel wherever we're told to go."

JayP (Dublin) - Posts: 1772 - 08/05/2015 16:50:06    1721606

Seany,simple question.Is it fair we play all games at home?

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 08/05/2015 17:02:36    1721612

Jayp,regardless of what Jim Gavin says,it it fair we play all games at home?

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 08/05/2015 17:05:28    1721614

MesAmis
County: Dublin
Posts: 8574

1721542
It is going to happen eventually.

The culchies will eventually stop arguing with themselves and belatedly realise that this is all in their own hands.

Is it in the culchies hands how many "home" league games Dublin play in Croke Park?? Is it not Leinster Council who are elected to, amongst other things, run the provincial championships and organise venues?? Why don't they do the job they are supposed to do, because they are afraid that's why. Leinster Council dare not upset the blue cash cow so they make the other counties vote on venues and make veil threats about continued funding availability if the Dubs are outside of Croke Park. It's a total smoke screen that would not be accepted in any other sporting organisation anywhere else in the world that one team has complete use of the national stadium for each and every fixture and not only that get to dominate the use of one end of that ground to suck the ball into the goals.....

Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3734 - 08/05/2015 17:10:32    1721615

highking12
County: Meath
Posts: 132

- For the Leinster council's side its all the more perplexing as I believe it needs the guts of 30,000 in Croke Park to break even for a match

That's not true. Makes no sense.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13718 - 08/05/2015 17:20:15    1721619

Enter Jim Gavin......

"I think, as the Leinster chairman said, it's about letting people see the games live," he said. "Provincial stadiums might not have the capacity to hold the games.
"I think it's the support base we have. If you get 30,000-plus people at a championship game, there are very few provincial grounds that could carry it.


"The Leinster Council have taken the decision to facilitate supporters because we'll travel wherever we're told to go."

Bull......Dublin had the same support base 20 years ago and Leinster Council could make improvements to two county grounds in the province to make them 30'000 plus capacity grounds (Pairc Tailteann, O'Moore Park and Nowlsn Park spring to mind) but no it's easier just to use Croker and give the Dubs an unfair advantage than redevelop provincial venues. More in Jim Gavin's mind to ask why Dublin haven't a ground of their own capable of holding a football league match than question the capacities of other venues

Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3734 - 08/05/2015 17:20:36    1721620

look
lets use myself as an example
ok i am going to Dubs games for 30 years now.
The best craic i have had EVER at a match, incl all ireland wins, leinster wins league wins etc etc was in Thurles in 2001
My uncle who was in Cork in 83 cites that as teh greatetst day he has ever had
The best match i was at for stories to come home with (among other things to come home with) was Longford about 8 years ago or so.

i would absolutely LOVE to play Meath in Navan, Louth in Drogheda (or navan), kildare in newbridge, Carlow in Dr Cullen, Wexford in Wexford or Nolan PArk etc etc.
Loais in Portlaois, or Offaly in Tullamore etc etc.

You would get atmosphere, craic, money spent and at the end of the day we would still win but so would local economies.

The Leinster champ is dying a horrible death. It has become of little consequence to anyone anymore.
Take us down the country and watch it revive itself. Its so obvious, its so easy.

And Richie, your the only ones who cant see that its NOTHING to do with the Dubs, its not our call and its not our choice.
Its the Leinster Council, and guess what, your own County reps, are on that board!
So take it up with them, because to be honest Pal, we dont need any help to beat ye anymore.

No disrespect to the other Royals on here, but this fella.....!!

Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8166 - 08/05/2015 17:48:30    1721624

Richieq
County: Meath
Posts: 2060

completely agree but think Navan is held up with Health and Safety rules which weren't there 20 years ago. I think the grass banks are off limits now as well?

sportsfan14 (USA) - Posts: 281 - 08/05/2015 17:58:12    1721627

cuederocket
County: Dublin
Posts: 2014

1721614
Jayp,regardless of what Jim Gavin says,it it fair we play all games at home?

----
Fair for who? Dublin, the other county, the fans? Is it fair for Westmeath to be drawn at home to Meath in a Leinster semi only to be told that the game will be in Croke Park? Sure Meath have more games under their belt there than Westmeath. It's all about perspective. ALL home games really means round 1 of Leinster as all other games are fixed for Croker anyway. So if it's just round 1 of Leinster and let's say we draw Carlow.

- is it fair to deprive fans of both counties tickets because of lack of capacity. No
- is it fair to deprive Carlow players an opportunity to play in Croke Park. No
- is it fair to deprive Carlow of home advantage if they have a better chance of winning with it. No

There are all kinds of considerations and you will be damned either way. Capacity is the largest issue coupled with the commitment that the powers that be have made to the 14-15K Dublin season ticket holders in guaranteeing them tickets for championship games.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 08/05/2015 18:05:11    1721629