Ritchie
I would watch Tyrone V Donegal every day of the week ahead of the Dublin V Cork game of a couple of weeks ago.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 06/05/2015 12:37:50    1720814

Aye ...wonder why Muckross...I'd watch the league replay all day every day if i was from Dun na nGall.

Hopefully we'll be more competitive this time against you and to do that I think we'll need to bring some more physically strong players as you've been swatting us like flies recently.

Tyronetim (Tyrone) - Posts: 1254 - 06/05/2015 13:16:28    1720840

Ritchie I agree with much of what you are saying. I said on here after the Derry/Dublin league game that there are many who would probably like to see gaelic football die in Dublin with youngsters taking up other sports as it would improve their own chances of success and the Tyrone poster has confirmed that now. Many people see gaelic games as being a great part of Irish culture but others see it as simply a chance to brag about success however it is achieved.
In the 2001 football final a Meath man was sent off for a 2nd yellow card for a high tackle but the galway man fouled was up and trying to take a quick free before the referee had dished out the 2nd yellow. 2 years later in the final and you had a player diving and feigning injury to get a gifted opponent sent off and people claiming the diver was some sort of hero for his actions. That type of nonsense confirmed that football had become like most other sports where if you don't have the talent to succeed then just cheat instead.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 06/05/2015 13:29:57    1720851

GaryMc82
County: Derry
Posts: 1756

I said Tipp were the better footballers. Same way as I said Dublin were better footballers than Donegal last year. Its a matter of opinion. I no where mentioned which team I though should have or deserved to win the game.

Inter Milan won a Champions League with inferior players to the likes of Barcelona but there system won it.

My point is that I'd rather have the footballers we have going forward than what Tyrone have.
Granted though, winning is everything. But youre taking it out of context!!

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 06/05/2015 13:30:17    1720852

Tyronetim
County: Tyrone
Posts: 1236

1720840
Aye ...wonder why Muckross...I'd watch the league replay all day every day if i was from Dun na nGall.

Hopefully we'll be more competitive this time against you and to do that I think we'll need to bring some more physically strong players as you've been swatting us like flies recently.

Granted, we seem to have the upper hand at the moment but it was only a few short years ago when the shoe was on the other foot. These things come & go & I for one am not taking Sunday week for granted.
I usually get a nervous tic under my right eye when a nasty shock is in the offing & at the moment I am going ninety to the dozen!!

The reason I enjoy watching Donegal V Tyrone is that I am guaranteed a contest, the Ulster U21 final being a case in point. It might not always be pretty but it will be an occasion with both teams giving everything for the cause, unlike the league final.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 06/05/2015 13:57:40    1720867

Soma, I said that tongue in cheek. I'm all for the promotion of Gaelic world wide and want everyone on board! I think the news of its demise is vastly exaggerated due to people jumping on the Joe Brolly bandwagon, usually from the counties that struggle to keep up!

redhanddefender (Tyrone) - Posts: 913 - 06/05/2015 14:12:16    1720874

Tyrone fans can come on here and pretend their players are as pure as the driven snow but we know that is not the case. We know that accusations of sledging are level against Tyrone more than any other county. It has to stop it is despicable behaviour and the GAA needs to stamp it out. No one should have to put up with that. Bear in mind the intent is to get a player to do what we would all naturally do if someone offended our wives girlfriends or sisters.

I have a big interest in Irish history and know some of what was required to keep the GAA going in the 6 counties and far from being anti ulster I am pro Ulster. As a limerick man I have no love for tip but I do not want to hear of sledging such as this. if I was part of a team who resorted to this then for me that medal would be tarnished ( and I am all for gamemanship for shoulders digs belts and man to man stuff). The GAA need to stamp this out and sledging should carry a red card seen as the offender cannot be punished by the punch in the jaw they deserve. Like it or not this kind of conduct demeans the achievements of any team.

disillusiondfan (Limerick) - Posts: 4279 - 06/05/2015 14:17:40    1720878

I am no fan of the more extreme forms of sledging but it has been part & parcel of the game for as long as I remember.

True, there is a line I don't want to see crossed, but short of that I don't have a problem with it.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 06/05/2015 14:29:32    1720887

geoff
County: Tyrone
Posts: 314

1720697
tiobraid, Tyrone were missing their best forward of the past 2 minor campaigns as well as arguably their best forward of the 2012 minor team.

Fair enough but my point wasnt meant as an excuse more the fact that it was a pity thats all, if you get my drift.

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 06/05/2015 14:45:35    1720895

I would strongly disagree, Tyrone had the better individuals as well as the better team. Every Tyrone player was comofrtable on the ball and in most cases took the right option.

geoff (Tyrone) - Posts: 377 - 06/05/2015 14:57:14    1720901

Tipperary lads should really let this go. As a mayo man we could give a long list of being hard done by. You just have to suck it up and carry on. Crying about spilled milk achieves nothing. You cant change the result and moral victories are worthless.

The players have to learn to play the ref. If the opposition ramp up the physicality/sledging/cynicism and the ref lets it go, you have to increase your own physicality/sledging/cynicism and not be bullied. Thats what winners do.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1126 - 06/05/2015 15:42:50    1720921

Being from a country club in Co. Antrim we never played Belfast teams a great deal in our younger years but when we did they had a psychological edge over us as they were more street wise as 11/12 yr olds than we were and generally sharper with the verbal's.

However by the time we were hitting these teams at minor level and beyond we were well ready for them and if anything looked forward to playing them as we knew we had a physical edge that they did not enjoy so much while we had grown beyond getting bothered by verbal's.

Essentially we enjoyed putting them on their ass at especially as we had not forgotten their verbal's when we were younger. As such I genuinely cannot understand how guys at U21 level have been moved by this.



Ah come on now naysayer i cant let that go without a riposte.
S somehow all 'frankies' are all wee skinny smicks that never developed physically enough to challenge the big hard hitting 'culchies'.
I have to say any of the 2 belfast clubs i played on relished the opportunity of getting physical against the 'country bumpkins'.
As I said to offside in a previous thread we all have our embellished stories to tell depending on your location.

As for the sledging issue its only being raised because a northern team are doing it and there is a lot of faux outrage as usual because of that. Its life, it happens at school, on the street and on the pitch so get over it and get on with it so long as you can shake hands after the game
It has been going on from i was a juvenile which is over 30 years ago, if someone who fouled and annoyed me had a distinctive characteristic then it would be mentioned to them usually preceded by an expletive. Likewise i was on the receiving end because of my more rotund appearance and a rather big 'loaf'. .
If this is the latest thing to get wound up about, what will we become outraged at next?
Maybe the sheer horror of not sharing a water botle with your opponent or worse still squirting it at him.

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 06/05/2015 15:58:30    1720928

Good article in today Irish News - the journalist makes a good point about Tipp's Stephen o'brien who stamped on his opponent - willthe GAA ignore this or will they follow up on it!!!!!

cuchulainn35 (Armagh) - Posts: 1676 - 06/05/2015 16:33:59    1720943

Its a pity that the headlines are all about the sideshows than they are about the football. I have no doubt that there was good football played by both teams. We will have to hope that the championship shapes up better.

I think that if the ref doesnt spot things, and there is no cooperation between him and the linesmen and the umpires, then it is a shame, but it has got to be left behind on the field. It is not the players job to call foul on their own behavior or rules of the game. It may well be an issue for a lot of people, but the reality is that as long as the ref doesnt blow on the day, there is nothing that can be done about it.

Sometimes a player who walks the thin line will get away with it, many other times he wont. Thats life. Either way, there will always be a sour taste in your mouth when it doesnt go your way. I think that this is the only way that you can view it, players who want to win have to be edgy as hell to get over the line.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 06/05/2015 16:47:54    1720957

geoff
County: Tyrone
Posts: 315

1720901
I would strongly disagree, Tyrone had the better individuals as well as the better team. Every Tyrone player was comofrtable on the ball and in most cases took the right option.

Not trying to sound smart but were you looking at the same game as me?
In the first half they mostly took the wrong option. I was hoping Tipp players wouldn't rush into tackles as Tyrone were going to shoot from any position no matter how impossible....and Tipp rightly let them shoot. The majority of theie wides were from unscorable positions. They didnt take the sensible options at all.

Tipp invariably made better use of the ball imo.

It's all only a matter of opinion though.Won't fall out over it!

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 06/05/2015 17:09:58    1720970

tiobraid
County: Tipperary
Posts: 1360

1720852 GaryMc82
County: Derry
Posts: 1756

I said Tipp were the better footballers. Same way as I said Dublin were better footballers than Donegal last year. Its a matter of opinion. I no where mentioned which team I though should have or deserved to win the game.

Inter Milan won a Champions League with inferior players to the likes of Barcelona but there system won it.

My point is that I'd rather have the footballers we have going forward than what Tyrone have.
Granted though, winning is everything. But youre taking it out of context!!


But Dublin didn't have better footballer's than Donegal, they may have had a larger selection of top class forwards and half forwards, but man for man their full backs, half backs and midfield was well outplayed. There were plenty of us who predicted Donegal would win that, and yet all of those who work as Sports Journalists and/or pundits got it wrong.

Why did they get it wrong? Because many let personal or parochial bias get in the way of reality. They Ignored the fact that there had been little or nothing between these two teams since the 2010 U21 final. They Ignored the fact that Donegal themselves had won the All Ireland title 2 years earlier, and also that the same Donegal had beaten every other top side in the Country during the previous 3 years.

Inter Milan won a Champions League with a very good bunch of players, and while Barcelona would be considered superior when comparing Attacking player to Inter, Inter would probably have been superior when comparing their defensive players to Barcelona.

My point? It is very easy for us to consider All out attacking teams as being superior to defensive teams, and claim they have superior or better players. And then when the defensive side beats an attacking style team, say that the defensive team had a better system.
But most often this is merely used as an excuse, as the attacking team with perceived better footballers simply were not up to the task or had underestimated their opponents.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 06/05/2015 17:33:51    1720977

GaryMc82
County: Derry
Posts: 1759

1720977
tiobraid
County: Tipperary
Posts: 1360

1720852 GaryMc82
County: Derry
Posts: 1756

I said Tipp were the better footballers. Same way as I said Dublin were better footballers than Donegal last year. Its a matter of opinion. I no where mentioned which team I though should have or deserved to win the game.

Inter Milan won a Champions League with inferior players to the likes of Barcelona but there system won it.

My point is that I'd rather have the footballers we have going forward than what Tyrone have.
Granted though, winning is everything. But youre taking it out of context!!


But Dublin didn't have better footballer's than Donegal, they may have had a larger selection of top class forwards and half forwards, but man for man their full backs, half backs and midfield was well outplayed. There were plenty of us who predicted Donegal would win that, and yet all of those who work as Sports Journalists and/or pundits got it wrong.

Why did they get it wrong? Because many let personal or parochial bias get in the way of reality. They Ignored the fact that there had been little or nothing between these two teams since the 2010 U21 final. They Ignored the fact that Donegal themselves had won the All Ireland title 2 years earlier, and also that the same Donegal had beaten every other top side in the Country during the previous 3 years.

Inter Milan won a Champions League with a very good bunch of players, and while Barcelona would be considered superior when comparing Attacking player to Inter, Inter would probably have been superior when comparing their defensive players to Barcelona.

My point? It is very easy for us to consider All out attacking teams as being superior to defensive teams, and claim they have superior or better players. And then when the defensive side beats an attacking style team, say that the defensive team had a better system.
But most often this is merely used as an excuse, as the attacking team with perceived better footballers simply were not up to the task or had underestimated their opponents.

------
I don't agree with all of that Gary. Most Donegal posters were expecting the worst going into that semi. Personally I thought Dublin would be up against it. Donegal supporters often posted here in the past defending the blanket system on the grounds that they didn't have players of the calibre of teams like Dublin, Kerry and Mayo. I always and still do call BS on that. All-stars all over the pitch, experienced, best full forward line in the country IMO. Was Dublin's favourite tag justified, yes. To predict the future you have to look to the past and I think last year's semi was Jimmy's only win over Dublin during his term. Not many would have put big money on Donegal. Do Dublin have better footballers than Donegal? Man for man I would say just about. Can Donegal organise themselves effectively to beat Dublin's open attacking football system? Yes. Are Donegal a 'better team' than Dublin? No I don't think so although with the combination of talent at their disposal and application of a good defensive system, capable of beating Dublin under the right conditions.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 06/05/2015 18:34:58    1720991

------
I don't agree with all of that Gary. Most Donegal posters were expecting the worst going into that semi. Personally I thought Dublin would be up against it. Donegal supporters often posted here in the past defending the blanket system on the grounds that they didn't have players of the calibre of teams like Dublin, Kerry and Mayo. I always and still do call BS on that. All-stars all over the pitch, experienced, best full forward line in the country IMO. Was Dublin's favourite tag justified, yes. To predict the future you have to look to the past and I think last year's semi was Jimmy's only win over Dublin during his term. Not many would have put big money on Donegal. Do Dublin have better footballers than Donegal? Man for man I would say just about. Can Donegal organise themselves effectively to beat Dublin's open attacking football system? Yes. Are Donegal a 'better team' than Dublin? No I don't think so although with the combination of talent at their disposal and application of a good defensive system, capable of beating Dublin under the right conditions.

Joxer

I can go a distance down the road with you but I would have a few caveats.
We were nervous before the game on the strength of Dublin's performances up to that point & on the strength of how Armagh nearly beat us. I said in a post just before the game that it could be Dublin by 20 or Donegal by 6. We just didn't know what to expect.

Your point about us saying we didn't have players the calibre is not strictly true. What most Donegal posters were saying is that we didn't have the players to play the way Dublin or Kerry did. This was in response to criticism of the Donegal style.

As for comparing the two team and trying to decide which is better that is very difficult as their styles are so different. For what it's worth I think both are better this year with Dublin tighter at the back & Donegal somewhat more expansive.

A rematch will be interesting!!!

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 06/05/2015 19:31:34    1721001

I'll meet you halfway Muck but I stand over my claim that more than one Donegal poster has consistently used the excuse of lack of quality and lack of strength in depth for usage of the system. I've always argued against this. How and ever I agree that a rematch would be very interesting. I'm been very impressed with our defence in the league, the full back line performance against Cork was a master class in man to man defending. I was also very impressed with Donegal against Cork, reckon they had the beating of them only for Cork's strategy of drawing them out to spring passes in behind them for the goals. Donegal will have learned a lot from that. Both will be well in contention at the business end of the summer.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 06/05/2015 19:56:35    1721008

what exactly do the relative merits of Dublin and Donegal have to do with the U-21 final? Unless we missed something over here I could have sworn it was between Tyrone and Tipperary.

GPlifer (USA) - Posts: 290 - 06/05/2015 21:16:19    1721024