For football yes, hurling tends to go to a neutral venue is Munster or Leinster depending on the match ups. It is a nice honour for the players to play at HQ. I am guessing that was Fermanagh's first visit to Croke park since the 2004 semi-final replay.

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 27/04/2015 20:04:48    1718196

In football yes. The GAA made a decision years ago to fully utilise Croke Park and i think they overkilled it. The Dublin policy is going a bit too far now. The spring series has pretty much run its course and it makes no sense to have low key league games in headquarters. They really need to take stock and move away from the set in stone blueprint and think of the entertainment aspect too. Its no fun in a empty Croke Park.

Venue selection should be always participant centric. There would be no harm in playing more Leinster quarters in provincial venues and some All Ireland quarters should be moved out too when it makes sense.

Too many times the GAA are far to slow to admit they too are only human and are prone to errors.

seany16 (Dublin) - Posts: 1658 - 27/04/2015 20:51:08    1718217

I have noticed that these threads are almost always started by somebody from a county in Leinster or else a successful county. Ask the footballers of Leitrim, Sligo, Limerick, Fermanagh etc if it is too easy to get into Croke Park to play games.
And then we remember last year the crying and whinging of the Mayo and Kerry camps, and many on Hoganstand as well, about the lack of respect shown to them because they had to play their replayed semi-final in Limerick as Croke Park had been rented out for an American football game. There are many reasons why Dublin are producing better footballers than 30 of the other counties in Ireland, none of them are to do with the fact that they play their league games in Croke Park.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 27/04/2015 21:16:49    1718230

Joxer i have no doubt it is, my point is not at all Dublin supporters actually id say majority would prefer there games away from cp at tgis stage, its getting boring, now i do disagree that its not a advantage to play say a Armagh down or something like that in championship who haven't been there more than once, Dublin have same dressing room same warm up end etc , so it becomes like a home game, its a bit like using a soccer analogy that Chelsea playing all there games in Wembley stadium and poor old crystal palace playing them in fa cup final, game is fixed for the associations national stadium Wembley, who has the advantage ? See what im getting at. Would Dublin win less playing more games outside of croke park? No, but would games they do play there be more of a perceived level playing field? Yes.
Dubs fans want to travel the people want croke park used less, the only people that don't are the gaa.

----
I think if it's an advantage RD then it's a slim one. Are we talking about 3 league games a year? Ok perhaps 5 if you win the league but sure Donegal must have played in Croke Park about 4 or 5 times in the last 12 months themselves. Cork have been there 3 or 4 times in the last 12 months. If you are successful you will have no problem playing in Croker. It will be as familiar as you're home ground almost. If you are not successful and you are playing Dublin there then any advantage Dublin have over you regarding familiarity of surroundings etc would not be much greater than if you were playing any other successful team like Donegal, Mayo, Tyrone etc. I think there is way too much weight put on this one to be honest. Get the league games back at Parnell anyway. Nobody wants them in Croke Park realistically, especially the die hard supporters.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 27/04/2015 21:52:28    1718251

League semi-finals are a step too far anyway. There's an obsession with neutral venue. Why not reward good performance in the league by giving the top 2 home advantage?

There seems to be an apathy in the GAA towards introducing a home advantage based on performance. In the Christy Ring, 2 teams make the semi-finals having won their first 2 games. The other 2 semi-finalists will have lost one game. Instead of rrewarding the unbeaten teams with home advantage, a toss of a coin determines the home team. It's crazy that the unbeaten team can have the disadvantage of an away game. The Pro 12 is benefitting at the moment from teams battling for a top 2 place in order to gain a home semi-final. Small incremental rewards like that add up to make a competition more competitive.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7889 - 27/04/2015 21:59:44    1718261

Offaly play Longford may16.winner plays Dublin in next round.neither have an earthly...its in croke park.prob in front of 10000 max if it's stand alone fixture.it it was in Longford or Tullamore it would be a full house with a great atmosphere...this is typical of the gaa...no logic

kavvie (Clare) - Posts: 505 - 28/04/2015 08:42:19    1718278

Out of interest, how many people does croke park need to break even?

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 28/04/2015 09:36:54    1718288

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 13036

1718288 Out of interest, how many people does croke park need to break even?

Google is your friend!

superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2837 - 28/04/2015 09:58:58    1718294

cityhurling
County: Galway
Posts: 2

1718103
Hill16101, its the complete opposite of what youre suggesting.
You say that people complain that croke park is being used? No, thats not it.
The problem is that there are loads of good grounds outside of dublin that are NOT being used.
No way should those games have been played in croker.

so what you suggest is we give soccer and rugby players the oppurtunity to play in croke park above division 3 and 4 teams?
some of these guys will never play championship matches there so undoubtably they will hold the memory of playing
a league final there very special regardless of how many decided to go watch the game or not

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 28/04/2015 10:32:41    1718322

PoppinPoints
County: Meath
Posts: 86

1718135
Hill16, it looks appalling to see games with streams of empty seats and dull atmosphere. I always think of it as the point of view of a tourist watching a game with an attendence of 20,000 in croke park. What's the first thing he is going to think of? He's gonna ask himself does the Irish people even like these games? That is obviously a ridiculous question but if I was a tourist at the game yesterday and I was told the division 1 final is the second most prestigious trophy to win in Gaelic football I would ask the same questions. I love watching games in Croker, only though when there is a full house. The problem is 99% of the time its empty? The GAA should be really thinking of marketing our sports better then playing it in front of large empty seats. Its not nice to look at. Here's a big statement but I think it should be considered. In the football season there should only be a maximum of 4 games played there, The AI final, an AI semi final and it must involve Dublin (only way it will be a full house), an AI quarter final double header (which also must involve Dublin and I would be even slightly unsure of playing this in Croker) and a Leinster final (must also involve Dublin). Some people may think I'm talking rubbish but Leinster semi finals can be played in smaller venues, Portlaois, Tullamore, a redeveloped Navan or Newbridge etc. Here's an example, a Meath and Kildare Leinster semi final, play it in Croker, that game only may draw about 20,000. Atmostphere is dull, echoey feeling, masses of empty seats. Play it in Tullamore, full house, no empty spaces, brilliant atmostphere. Its not rocket science! AI Quater final, they could use the likes of Clones if its two ulster teams, Killarney, Thurles or Limerick if its two Munster teams, etc. AI semi final that doesn't involve Croker, perfect idea would be to play it in Thurles. 55,000 capacity, thats the normal amount Croker gets for its other semi final and even then it's an echoey feel. Jam packed Thurles, would be similar to a muster hurling final day, amazing atmostphere. Gaelic grounds could also be used aswell similar to Semi final last year which worked perfectly. By doing these venue changes it would make games more exciting for the neutral, and the players and spectators

so we should decide dates venues and times around what a toursit thinks of our sport??????????
ahead of the players wishes???????????
sorry if it offends your eyes to look at seats but really thats your own buisness
theres plenty of ugly people in the streets each day but I dont complain that its not nice to look at!
look certain games if means logisticaly can be played in differant venues
but dont try tell me jam packed grounds this and that
the all ireland semi final replay last year was taken to limerick
and the attendance suffered by 20 thousand nearly
it was nowehre near jam packed there was what 35 thousand in a 50 thousand stadium
thats the same thing as 55 thousand in a 80 thousand stadium

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 28/04/2015 10:41:18    1718334

joxer you are completly exaggerating there about a brilliant atmophere and crowd bursting onto pitch in parnell
parnell has a terrible atmosphere despite being packed
you can hear players calling for the ball on pitch its dire
what about promoting the games to kids?
how many kids tickets would be available in parnell these days
when you have the parnell pass and season ticket schemes sold out
we had 23,000 27,500 and 19,000 at the three home games
parnell only holds 10,000

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 28/04/2015 10:46:01    1718340

From another similar topic but......

I think the main reason for having games outside Dublin is to see more of the country. Ive been to Dublin enough times but only places like cork, galway, kilkenny a handful of times and every other county once. Id love a excuse to go to Navan, Carlow, Waterford etc for wee weekends during the summer. Limerick, Killarney can hold roughly 40k and you 18 stadiums that hold 20k plus in places like newry, kilkenny, derry and wexford. Lets get the ol travel cap on and see the country a bit rather than the same old bars near croker :) Great sport, great people, great country

DoireCityFC (Derry) - Posts: 1580 - 28/04/2015 10:52:03    1718349

themaster croke park doesnt need any number to break even
if they catered for 82 thousand people and opened every area bar tooilet then you would need 30 thousand
but when they know what crowd they are expecting they only open the areas needed
like last weekend
they opened the middle of hill16
opened lower cusack canal end and hogan
and the premium levels
there fore they only had the amount of staff required,stewards required, gardai reguired
cleaners required and so on
so last sunday they catered for between 30-35 thousand just like any other stadium with that capacity would

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 28/04/2015 10:52:09    1718350

kavvie
County: Clare
Posts: 222

1718278
Offaly play Longford may16.winner plays Dublin in next round.neither have an earthly...its in croke park.prob in front of 10000 max if it's stand alone fixture.it it was in Longford or Tullamore it would be a full house with a great atmosphere...this is typical of the gaa...no logic

dublin have never played a championship match in croke park in front of 10 thousand
last year there was 40 thousand for the first game in leinster
more than was at the leinster hurling final
more than was at the munster hurling final
and all 3 provincial finals outside of the leinster equivalent

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 28/04/2015 10:58:08    1718356

27/04/2015 16:32:08
hill16no1man
County: Dublin
Posts: 9614

1718092
so we build one of the best stadiums in europe and people complain that its being used??????????
this has to take the biscuit
we had royaldunne want to see dublin go back to parnell park and soccer and rugby play in croker instead
brilliant way to promote our games haha
seriously whats the big obsession with attendance in croker
tipp play in thurles in a ground that holds 55 thousand and get what 5 or 6 thousand for league games
thats less than 10% of the capacity
kerry play in killarney and get 7 or 8 thousand in a 50 thousand stadium
limerick play in the gaelic grounds and get 3-4 thousand in a 50 thousand stadium
you could go on and on so why complain that croke ark is actually being used
im sure the same people were probably whinging that it wasnt being used in the 00tys when it was rebuilt

Firstly Kerry also play in Tralee for league matches and Firzgerald Stadium does not hold 50'000 in fact it holds less than 40'000 at present, that aside yes they are playing games in stadiums that are less than 1/3 full at times but you know what the difference for Kerry, Tipp and Limerick is, those stadiums are their home grounds, they own those grounds on which they have spent money developing, Dublin have not gone down this road as the GAA don't want the golden goose to get a dose of constipation so they let them dance about in Croker the whole time, unless your one of the great unwashed that carries a hurley and a sliothar then Parnell Park will do you nicely with an occasional run out on the sacred sod as foreplay to the footballers. Dublin County Board for years have sat back and done nothing as regards a home venue as no pressure was ever on them to do so, when Parnell Park did receive a facelift in the 90's it was a half hearted one and as a stadium it was never going to be utilised as a full time home ground, the eyes were firmly fixed on Jones Road. I have said it before, the fact that a county with the population, income, marketing, success and guaranteed revenue like Dublin don't have a suitable fit for purpose home ground is farcical and why this situation has been allowed to develop the way it has is a disgrace, simple as that. I know a lot of Dubs who agree with this thinking, I know a lot of Dubs who want to travel for championship matches, I know a lot of Dubs who want a ground they can call their own and be proud of, time the powers that be in Dublin GAA got the finger out and give their teams and supporters a proper home.

Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3734 - 28/04/2015 11:07:34    1718363

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 13036

1718288 Out of interest, how many people does croke park need to break even?


Depends on ticket prices. I have heard that it needs 40k, but this doesn't seem right. It wouldn't be used near as much as it is if that were the case.
Have also heard that a full house is worth 4 million to the GAA. So that's €48 out of a €70 ticket (not accounting for sponsorship, etc.). This does seem reasonable enough but again, not all games are €70. I'd imagine the smaller games benefit from the top tier not being open (lower security requirements, possible reduced insurance costs?, etc.)

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5021 - 28/04/2015 11:15:59    1718369

even 10,000 would see parnell park unsafely packed in my opinion. the club football championship final last year was packed with big crowds outside at throw-in, and there was less than 10,000 there that evening. A major problem with parnell park is that ppl can only enter from one side of the ground. to realistically take dublin out of croker for league games you would need a 30,000 stadium.
Cant see parnell being extended - dont think the golf club would sell their land and if they did there is still parking/congestion issues. Unlike croker you cant walk to donneycarney from town.

If our country cousin posters are to be believed Dublin GAA could built this new 30k stadium from petty cash but realistically it aint gonna happen.

HenryHill16 (Dublin) - Posts: 249 - 28/04/2015 11:32:00    1718381

I hate league and early championship games in Croke park.

HATE IT

There was a time, what seems like many moons ago now, When Dublin used to get knocked out of the championship and you would be heartbroken afterwards, Not because they lost, But because you would see people leaving in their thousands and i'd say to myself, I've to wait another 10 months for this.

Nowadays, we play there so often its become boring.

There are no butterflies before games.

There is no excitement among the fans.

No buzz around the place.

Its shite.

plain and simple.

I have been to Cork, Killarney, Castlebar and Clones in the league with the Dubs this year and the atmosphere and sense of occasion was much better at those games. To see huge crowds in Castlebar and Clones in particular was great.

To walk through the towns wearing your colours after making the journey down makes you so proud. You could tell there was such a buzz.

But then we go back to Croker and there are people walking to the ground in groups... like zombies.

Trust me, Dublin fans HATE going to Croke Park for these games. The reason we go is because we just go where we are told to play. Doesnt mean we want to play there.

Given the chance, I'd rather play all our league games away from home, than in Dublin. Seriously.

And this nonsense of marketing the game and enticing kids to our games, Yea.... sounds a great idea on paper.... But i know as a kid i got a bigger thrill seeing big crowds and full stadia, over this 1/4 full croke park with a similar atmosphere to what you'd get in a morgue.

It benefits nobody, There is no life left in this spring series. There is no life left in the soul of leinster football games at said venue.

It needs a bit of reinvention.

Please take us out of Croke Park, Let us go on a spin like everyone else. :(

waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13650 - 28/04/2015 11:40:46    1718388

richieq

ah now the point was dublins league games the point was taking games like last weekends finals out of croker
and i proved to you that most county matches in the league are played in less percentages full grounds than croke park.
so you want to leave croke park empty for 6 months of the year???
you want dublin to go back to parnell and what bring rugby and soccer back to croker and promote them games instead???
dublin rent th use of croker so you do realise it costs them money
money made is divided among all county boards from the league
s it serves every other county better with 27,500 like was at the tyrone match
as oppossed to a capacity of 10 thousand parenll would have allowed
nobody has a problem with playing a leinster quarter final outside croker as a stand alone

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 28/04/2015 11:47:40    1718397

Parnell Park is not suitable for Dublin home games its way too small - you'd have to auction the tickets - say 100 euro a ticket? GAA won't agree to it - they have bills to pay, wages to pay, stadiums to be built etc etc

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4898 - 28/04/2015 12:20:18    1718416