This ridiculous idea of no more thn 5 hand passes in a row is really getting to me. So after the team make 5 hand passes what are they meant to do if there is no one to kick it to. Drive it into the middle of nowhere? Hoof it into touch? I don't think the hand passing is the problem, it's the blanket that is. So if this rule was implemented and teams continue to play with 13 men behind the ball what would we see? 5 lateral hand passes then somebody panics and drives it in where it is sweeped up easily, this would be the flow of the game. My problem with some of the rule changes suggested is the net product would be a different sport, it wouldn't be Gaelic Football we would be watching anymore

PoppinPoints (Meath) - Posts: 225 - 31/03/2015 13:28:09    1708875

Nailed it Farney. Good post.

waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13650 - 31/03/2015 13:31:54    1708881

Not this rubbish again sceptical.

Whats the population of kerry?
How many all-irelands have they won? etc.

dont know why im rising to such a negative and pointless post

HenryHill16 (Dublin) - Posts: 249 - 31/03/2015 13:45:04    1708895

Farney I said limit the handpass to 1 backward moving handpass in the same segment of play, this 15 handpasses in a row going backwards and sideways is bulls*te killing the game as a spectacle

Brianmac78 (Dublin) - Posts: 1168 - 31/03/2015 13:46:32    1708898

Agree Farney , people are just making lazy suggestions for the sake of it . I think the only one that will make a huge difference is keeping 4-5 players in opponents half . How would it be policed ? bring in extra official etc ; it wouldn't be as difficult to monitor as some may think !

TheRightStuff (Donegal) - Posts: 1688 - 31/03/2015 14:01:56    1708912

Brianmac78
County: Dublin
Posts: 856

1708858
minimum of 4 forwards must be in the opponents half at all times aka no more then 2 forwards could go back to swarm the defence

----
Yes I've been saying this for a while. An offside rule whereby 5 attackers cannot cross back into the side of the pitch that their team is defending once the opposition cross the halfway. Should be easy enough for linesmen to track that. If you had a similar rule and with 13 players it would really open the game up.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 31/03/2015 14:03:43    1708913

Sorting out the Kicking/hand-passing is one thing but you simply have to address the tackle. The reason teams are kicking less is because they are simply swarmed - just like in the nursery in our club - strange to see grown ups playing a style of game that 6 year old's play. So how do other sports address the tackling issue? Basketball restricts it - man-to-man, teams can't come back into their own half etc But you have a tiny area with 10 players and up to three officials. American football have grids etc

Basically changes should only come in that enhance the game, keep it flowing, preserve the ethos of the game, reward attacking play and make it easy to referee - simple !!

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4898 - 31/03/2015 14:26:31    1708920

1 Do away with hand pass, fisted pass only.
2 No passes back to keeper.
3 At senior level all kick outs to reach 50 yd line

3 simple changes that could be implemented without fuss.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 31/03/2015 14:37:44    1708930

Agree with that Joxer , I'd rather it kept at 15 aside though (don't know why ) . The only problem maybe is when forwards are chasing defenders and they will have to stop at the half way line . It may take getting used to but it would be great . I think football would be the winner here !

TheRightStuff (Donegal) - Posts: 1688 - 31/03/2015 14:51:32    1708939

Henry hill there population is almost 150000. They also have over 100 clubs. My point is still valid. There are less than 30 clubs in longford. Some struggle to field 15. I read about some dublin club, was it fingal ravens i cant remember who had numbers for ten or more adult teams. Thats without actively begging/recruiting within the community. This is what happens in rural clubs. My origional post used the dublin population advantage because it is relevant. Unless something is done to remove the unfair advantage enjoyed by dublin then how can you expect small counties to play open football. Please reply with real suggestion not bitterness because im speaking sense.

sceptical (Cavan) - Posts: 544 - 31/03/2015 15:01:18    1708946

Why all the hand wringing about 3 or 4 men surrounding one? If they're not fouling, then it's great defending. Last time I checked a player isn't entitled to pass the ball away. Maybe he shouldn't have put the head down and ran into a blind alley. If there are 3 or 4 around him, then there are 2 or 3 of his team mates scratching somewhere, who should have been open for a pass.

m_the_d (None) - Posts: 1099 - 31/03/2015 15:06:51    1708949

if your man scores you have to do 50 press ups.

won't be long going back to man-to-man then.

Greenfield (Meath) - Posts: 522 - 31/03/2015 15:11:44    1708953

I think a lot of folks have this whole argument back-to-front. Giving the attacker the benefit of the doubt etc is precisely why massed defences evolved in the first place! What chance has a defender got when forwards are allowed take 7-8 steps in the scoring zone, can hop the ball twice while in possession, can fall over and get a free, can lie on the ball and get a throw-up when legitimately caught in possession.
It was mentioned before and I agree, the lack of a tackle/legitimate contest for the ball is the problem- massed defences are an unfortunate symptom. The tactic is actually quite an innovation in one way.

Looking at the trend in scoring in All-Ireland finals since 1955 (anything before that is largely irrelavant to what we are tallking about), the average score per game is actually increasing, by about 0.25 points per year. Also, the winning margin has closed from an average 6 points in the 1970s to less than 4 points for the last 8 years (Kerrys whipping of Mayo and Cork bends the ststs). The average points scored by the losing team has increased, but a major change is a reduction in goals scored. So we now have higher scoring and closer matches than before, with losing teams tending to put up a more of a fight. No wonder Pat Spillane wants things to revert to the 'golden era'!

All that said, a few things that do need to change:
1) A player who bounces the ball at least once while in possession must use a kick to transfer possession- throw up as a penalty (this would reduce handpassing and create a fairer contest for posession)

2) Must use 2 solos after controlling bounce while in possession
3) Black card for forwards who pull down defenders (limesmen empowered to advise on this in championship matches)
4) Retraining of referees on overcarrying with rules enforced in the scoring zone
5) Any player who goes to ground in possession must immediatley return to his feet or play the ball away on the ground. Lying on the ball immediate free against
6) Introduce a tackle 'call' for referees, similar to ruck in rugby. 3 players max allowed after call is made, attacking player must play the ball away. This would need refining but it could curb the number of ugly pile-ups
7) A goal may not be scored by fisting the ball in flight from a handpass- flighted ball must be kicked for score to stand

Eddie the Exile (Monaghan) - Posts: 1064 - 31/03/2015 15:13:48    1708959

m the d. I disagree. I think its quite simple to dispossess a forward when there are 3 or 4 of ye surrounding him.
For me great defending involves beating a man on your own, without the help of half your team.
Seamus Moynihan neutralising the great Padraig Joyce in the 2000 all Ireland final, and doing it on his own.
how about laois man Joe Higgins superb containment of Stevie Mcdonnell in the 2003 all ireland quarter final. Mcdonnell was scoring loads in every game up til then.
Thats great defending, and inspiring too.
A trained ape could defend these days.

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 31/03/2015 15:19:59    1708964

I posted on a post about a championship structure yesterday. I belive the sport shouldn't be chnged, rather so the structure. Champions league forgot, 8 groups of 4, 2 up to last 16 1st tier All Ireland, 2 down to last 16 second tier all ireland. Now what i Sid was for the groups bonus points could be used. You get 2 points for a win but for eg if you scored 3 or more goals, you got a bonus point, if you won by four or more points, you got a bonus point, if you lost by less than 4 you got a bonus point. This would encourage teams to attack from the off. Simple idea that doesn't involve changing the sport

PoppinPoints (Meath) - Posts: 225 - 31/03/2015 15:29:37    1708970

Joncarter, you're disagreeing on what is great defending, not the point of my post, fair enough that's your opinion.

You highlighted some great defenders, which is different. We'd all love to have six of the great Glenflesk man at the back, but when you don't you adapt.

m_the_d (None) - Posts: 1099 - 31/03/2015 15:30:13    1708971

The less new rules the better when it comes to putting new rules in the game, as it becomes a pedantic and pointless confusing exercise on an already taxed referee.

I would suggest 2 rules that would have great impact if they were introduced.

1 kickouts to go to the 50.
2 the full forwards are not allowed to stay out of their own half, no mater what.


All the sub rules about fist passing etc are decorations. They wouldnt have much of an impact on the game if the 2 above rules were introduced.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 31/03/2015 15:33:20    1708975

Swarm tackling shouldn't be allowed

2 man tackle maximum

Limit the number of hand passes

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 31/03/2015 15:42:44    1708978

But surely the best way to adapt is to improve your skills and work harder on your own game.
it seems to me that rather than go to the trouble of doing that, managers these days just take the easy option and send everyone back.

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 31/03/2015 15:44:04    1708979

Donegalman how do you decide who a full forward is?
I play football and randomly drift between midfield, anywhere in half forward line and full forward. I could be wearing any jersey from 8-15 and change position depending on how the game is going and how we are doing in certain areas.

dstuction (Donegal) - Posts: 1209 - 31/03/2015 16:21:22    1709000