Brianmac78

I think Wexford would be a big loser in that. Don't get me wrong,nothing should be handed to anybody but wexford would finish with 100% record with probably 2-3 close games and learn nothing. the same would apply to whatever team would go down the following year. The current structure is excellent with the exception of 1B/2A play off which is scrapped from next yer anyway. problem solved

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 2692 - 24/03/2015 16:26:39    1706114

people wont accept 1a and 1b is fine because its easier to win the league being in 1b as you play weaker teams
why have the six best teams in one and six weaker in another
and reward them both with the same thing for finishing in top4 of each
if they want to keep that up then why not just have a random draw for the six counties in 1a and 1b
instead of putting the stronger teams in one league and the weaker in the other

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 24/03/2015 19:57:54    1706196

Here here legendzxix, this is unbelievable. After all the furore last year I thought they got rid of this ridiculous situation.

I mean how is this, as you rightly say, nothing but an attempt to rinf fence the position of top 8-12 teams in the country.

Plus not only will the winner not go up automatically; they will have to play the team from 1b at a neutral venue, six days after the 2a final Six days and a neutral venue while Laois or Antrim have 2 week break! FFS Kerry and Westmeath do the business and aren't even given the decency of playing at home as a reward!

Can you imagine if it was football doing this!!!

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 24/03/2015 21:53:45    1706258

I agree with the Kerry boys completely, it is absolutely wrong. We deserve to be relegated prob even now without playing Laois again and the winners of 2A should get promoted.

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 25/03/2015 10:48:02    1706321

hill16no1man

I don't think it's as black and white as "easier from 1B"
True it doesn't make a lot of sense for an easier group to be playing for the same trophy. Certainly there's a better oath to the 1/4 finals from 1B but you still have to beat 3 top teams to win it.

Is it better to play 5 top quality games and not make the knock-out or play 3 ok game,2 tough ones and maybe not be ready for the 1A opponent when it comes. Being honest I've no idea whether we are ready for Cork or not. . . .

I'd be in favour of seeding the 2 groups I suppose but it would take the bite out of it in my opinion and allow teams to revert back to experimenting too much and just getting your few points to stay up. That's the whole reason the structure was changed.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 2692 - 25/03/2015 11:06:31    1706335

bumpernut I am not disputing that Antrim deserve to go down. But a seperate point is that I believe that Kerry are at where they are at not because of the league set up - if they get up they will go right back down. They have to look deeper than that to sort themselves out - bit like Antrim really.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 25/03/2015 12:59:32    1706398

But Nayser, how can a county naturally develop if the system put in place is designed to keep them where they are and put every obstacle in their way to ever improving? Yes Kerry would probably go straight down,but who knows they might get the likes of Wexford down in Tralee and give them a serious rattle along the way. Surely to better yourself you have to play the stronger teams.

Hurling community in Kerry is doing its best trying to develop at underage but I feel Kerry over the past 5 years have earned the right to test themselves against the next tier. If they're not up to it, so be it but that's for them to find out not the administrators who have designed the present system!

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 25/03/2015 14:15:28    1706431

An argument can also be made for Carlow. They seriously threatened to make some manor of a breakthrough under John Meyler(one of the most under rated managers of all time) and the system was changed. You'd nearly swear to prevent them from doing so and maintain the status quo.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 2692 - 25/03/2015 15:03:18    1706451

Naysayer,

Theres only one way Kerry will find out if theyre good enough. If theyre not, well at least they have had that experience of playing at a higher level which should help them in future years. If we're really about promoting hurling in general we cant have a closed shop as i said on the other hurling post if we were on the receiving end and we have been frequently we will give off about it and rightly so.

The current set up protects the stronger counties to the detriment of the weaker/developing ones. Lets also be honest here the split between 1A and 1B is also to protect those in 1A to prevent them, unlikely as it may be, from falling into division 2.

I have to say i would be in favour of going back to the 8 team leagues which would mean Waterford and Limerick/Wexford in Division 1 and then Wexford/Limerick,Offaly,Laois,Antrim,Kerry Westmeath,Carlow,Derry in Division 2.

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 25/03/2015 15:16:01    1706457

6 team divisions are grand. Leave them be.

This quarter finals thing is nonsense. Clare and Kilkenny didn't make them, but they'd both beat the dung out of Wexford and Offaly. Top 4 from both divisions going to quarter finals is just silly. There will be a hiding for either Wexford or Offaly and it'll do them no good.

I agree with the original poster. There should be no more playoffs. Whoever finishes bottom of any league should be relegated and whoever finishes top should be promoted. End of story.

icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2553 - 25/03/2015 15:19:52    1706460

icehonesty

What makes you think clare or Kilkenny would hammer wexford ??? there's absolutely no evidence to suggest this. clare can barely win a match since 2013 and I certainly wouldn't fear a severely weakened kilkenny ?? Stick to your football mate.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 2692 - 25/03/2015 16:07:12    1706486

Doylerwex I'd say you should go put your rose-tinted glasses back on and tell us all how Wexford are a top team.

icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2553 - 25/03/2015 17:32:10    1706529

icehonesty

When did I say that ? Do I think we can beat anyone on our day ? Yes. I was the first one on the Wexford page to question whether we'd yet found the consistency to be in 1A. It's pretty obvious that the answer to that is no. A lot done, a lot more to do. You however are far too pessimistic and negative. There's very little to separate us from the chasing pack based on the last 12 months.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 2692 - 25/03/2015 17:42:27    1706536

One or two people are passing comments that the 2A winner v 1B play-off loser is to be scrapped. I haven't come across anything about such a change. Has anyone heard if such a change is to come in?

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7873 - 25/03/2015 22:01:51    1706647

I think it does need a few tweaks to be fair.

If we are rewarding teams with a quarter final place from both divisions then the divisions need to be levelled out. At the minute we have a scenario where we have a top division of the best teams in the country yet the team that finishes 5th in the top division is out of it, meanwhile the team that finishes 4th in the lower division is in the quarter final.

Of course its easier for 1B teams. In reality my own team Wexford, finished 3rd and have beaten Antrim, Laois and Offaly to get that 3rd spot and a quarter final place, meanwhile look at Dublin who finished 3rd in 1A and had to beat Tipperary, Kilkenny and Galway to get the same position and reward. That doesnt make sense.

And the situation with promotion from 2A is a joke. Waterford have finished top of 1B and will get and deserve promotion without need for a play off etc. The same should apply from 2A, plain and simple.

If they persist with 1A and 1B with teams getting quarter final spots then they should just seed the divisions properly, its easy enough to do in fairness. Then whoever finishes bottom of 1A and 1B plays off to decide whos relegated and the top team from 2A goes up.

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1351 - 26/03/2015 08:41:01    1706651

TheHermit and Bumpernut I do believe that the Div 1B losers should be relegated and the 2A winners be promoted. My comments previously are more in relation to the fact that the like of Antrim and Kerry have to look deeper than league structures to really kick on to a higher level. Both counties have other idsadvanatges such as Geographical location or playing second fiddle to football but as with league structures you sometimes have to look at what you can do for yourself and put in the hard work accordingly.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 26/03/2015 10:46:04    1706681

I see the Christy Ring winner is to gain automatic promotion to the provincial qualifier group. That's a positive development. The next step is automatic promotion from the Meagher and Rackard Cups along with ending the promotion / relegation play-offs in the hurling league.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7873 - 26/03/2015 14:05:42    1706742

Tearintom,

I presume the idea is that over the space of a few years, there would be a natural "leveling-out" between 1A & 1B. Teams in transition, like Offaly, Laois, Waterford & Wexford would be making a certain amount of progress before a good hammering from Kilkenny or Tipp puts them back to square one again. Hurling is a higher scoring game than football & a small difference in class between two teams could easily be a 10 or 12 point defeat, which looks a lot worse on paper than it may have been on the pitch but the perception would be that it was a rout.

My main gripe with the system is it's only in place for Division 1 counties. Why can't they put the same (or similar) quarterfinals (or even semis) for Divisions 2 & 3. My own county is in a division with just 3 other teams so they get just 3 games & maybe a league final. How does that help?

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 26/03/2015 14:06:00    1706743

Hurling is a higher scoring game than football & a small difference in class between two teams could easily be a 10 or 12 point defeat, which looks a lot worse on paper than it may have been on the pitch but the perception would be that it was a rout.

Very good point that is often overlooked.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 26/03/2015 14:29:10    1706759

Why are Galway traveling to Waterford? Shouldn't Waterford travel to Galway as Galway are in a "higher" division?

WoodlawnPat (Galway) - Posts: 288 - 26/03/2015 16:41:44    1706807