I wouldnt like to be the player trying to catch the baseball behind Jackie Tyrrell in this new series, the old shoulder to chest will be a new experience for the MLB.

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2386 - 25/02/2015 11:11:21    1696642

Cuetherocket, you mention in an earlier post that Paudraic Maher's pull on Michael Rice was unintentional. I think that his pull was completely reckless and dangerous. He was swinging with one hand which means the swing is a lot looser and less controlled. If memory serves me correctly, he was involved in a ouple of other incidents with TJ Reid and Henry Shefflin that day.

People are saying Kilkenny people keep bringing up incidents involving other teams to justify. The reason other players are mentioned is to show that Kilkenny are as sinned against as they are sinners. As can be pointed out, Kilkenny players have suffered a number of serious injuries over the years whereas you will struggle to find a player badly injured against Kilkenny. Don't get me wrong, there have been incidents where Kilkenny players have been sent off and rightly so.

With regard to Sunday's match, the issue I have is the lack of consistency. Farrell sending off was very harsh and if you say he should be sent off under the rules, then watch the match back and we will see how many others should have been sent off (from both sides). By comparison, Sutcliffe got his second yellow for a wild swing as Jackie went by him. Under normal circumstances, i would agree that it was a yellow but by comparison to Farrell's it should have been a straight red. Lyng was rightly sent off. I don't think there was particular intent to do damage but he was careless and rightly got the line. Liam Rushe swung the butt of his hurl back through Paul Murphy's helmet, which was dangerous and saw no action taken and no mention of. Was Lyng's tackle really that much worse??

KK4Life (Kilkenny) - Posts: 56 - 25/02/2015 12:04:58    1696663

Imagine the day that a thread starts here!!!

" Have Kilkenny gone soft "

I believe at the moment Kilkenny are no different to any other team in the country. Yes there was a time of manly stuff but did you see any of the opposition players do any different.

From a Tipp / Kilkenny perspective in the 4 games from 2009 - 2012 there was some wild pulls , helmet pulling , shoulder into the chest etc but it was still great hurling.
Both sides will argue for & against incidents which happened in those games some punished others not.

I think Kilkenny do play on the edge but you dont win games by being soft & friendly. They havent won games on any bully tactics they won by getting in your face , winning 50/50 balls getting scores at vital times. They might not score for 7 or 8 mins then suddenly they hit you for 2-5 in 4 mins.

They have a game plan that almost everyone can only admire.If you let them push you around the field then your in trouble.

In reference to Sundays game one card probably was justified but the other not.

I dont condone any wild pulling in hurling or using it as weapon but this not all to blame on Kilkenny. I have seen far worse in Club games.

WildPundit (Tipperary) - Posts: 1709 - 25/02/2015 12:15:31    1696665

i think kilkenny have always played on the edge which i dont have any problem with. i think sometimes begrudgers outside kilkenny like to throw this topic around as maybe a form of jealousy!! first red card was very soft and according to the rules he had to go. however if everybody got the line keeping up with some strict rules then both teams would have ended up with about 10. the other 2 reds ive no problem with. great win for the dubs but never write off any team this time of year.

superdub (Dublin) - Posts: 392 - 25/02/2015 12:34:40    1696671

KK4Life
County: Kilkenny
Posts: 27


With regard to Sunday's match, the issue I have is the lack of consistency.

I agree. This is a big problem.The blame does not lay completely at the door of the referees I believe. The referee need to be supported. Going back to Pat Horgan v Paudie O'Brien. James McGrath was spot on in terms of implementing the rules. The Cork county board didn't accept it and the CCCC supported them - what signal does that send to referees?




Farrell sending off was very harsh and if you say he should be sent off under the rules, then watch the match back and we will see how many others should have been sent off (from both sides).

Maybe that is what it should happen. A good few years ago in a football game, John O'Keeffe (Cork) sent off half a dozen Carlow/Westmeath players in a championship game. He got absolutely slaughtered for implementing the rules he was told to implement-got no support whatsoever from anybody and retired (luckily for him it was prior to Social Media). JohnJo Farrel was sent off early. Imagine if the ref had issued another 5/6 red cards? He would have been slaughtered in the media, left out to dry by the GAA, hammered on social media..his personal life would have been hell..as it happens he was probably being as brave as he could without killing himself..we will all shout inconsistency but unless we all support refs we will all continue to be victims of it..


By comparison, Sutcliffe got his second yellow for a wild swing as Jackie went by him. Under normal circumstances, i would agree that it was a yellow but by comparison to Farrell's it should have been a straight red. Lyng was rightly sent off. I don't think there was particular intent to do damage but he was careless and rightly got the line. Liam Rushe swung the butt of his hurl back through Paul Murphy's helmet, which was dangerous and saw no action taken and no mention of. Was Lyng's tackle really that much worse??

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 25/02/2015 12:42:27    1696673

Kilkenny are winners because they contest everything, Cody is a winner because nothing is off limits and I as a passionate Galway man would hope Galway and Cunningham would adopt the same approach.

First dismissal crazy, shocking.

Second dismissal also harsh for the simple reason Lyng started he's movement from along way back and never took hes eyes off the ball. He never intended to catch the Dublin player, of course it was a bad belt but the rules are letting players down. If it isn't intentional then I can see no reason to issue a red card.

crossfieldball (Galway) - Posts: 650 - 25/02/2015 15:29:02    1696771

25/02/2015 15:29:02
crossfieldball
County: Galway
Posts: 650

1696771
Kilkenny are winners because they contest everything, Cody is a winner because nothing is off limits and I as a passionate Galway man would hope Galway and Cunningham would adopt the same approach.

First dismissal crazy, shocking.

Second dismissal also harsh for the simple reason Lyng started he's movement from along way back and never took hes eyes off the ball. He never intended to catch the Dublin player, of course it was a bad belt but the rules are letting players down. If it isn't intentional then I can see no reason to issue a red card.

I agree with first part of the above but the second sending off was red for sure. If you think otherwise I'm afraid you're only condoning reckless and dangerous play.

Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 25/02/2015 17:10:56    1696832

Kk4life,i agree that Pauraic Mahers one handed swing was a little wild,but from what i can remember it was the fact his hurley slid all the way along M Rices,that ended up causing such a bad injury to his hand.Maher didnt pull down on his hand.Or any other part of his body.The resulting injury was accidental.Thats how i saw it anyway.Your correct in saying he pulled wildly across another Kilkenny player that day.I think it was Richie Hogan.This was a far worse pull but the fact there was no damage done there was little said about it.No doubt Maher was rash that day,but to be fair to him i dont think hes a dirty player.He hasnt bein involved in anything similiar since.Horgan has now bein involved in a couple of incidents also.Again i dont believe he is a dirty player.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 25/02/2015 17:17:50    1696836

BennyBunny, I agree that Horgan should never had the red recinded 2 years ago. It set an awful precedent. I wouldn't say it was a dirty stroke but it was certainly reckless.

Cuetherocket,
Padraic Maher's hurl did slide along Rice's but I would maintain that this would have been unlikely to happen if he wasn't swinging with one hand on the hurl. If you swing a hurl yourself you will notice that if you hold with 2 hands, the hurl movement is more restricted to a downward direction, when pulling on a ball (I guess it is to do with one arm being stretched to its limit) whereas a one-handed swing has much less control and more likely to come up along the opponents hurl.

With regard to his second pull, I went looking for it so I would have a definite answer. It was TJ Reid he pulled on in the 61st minute

KK4Life (Kilkenny) - Posts: 56 - 25/02/2015 20:56:12    1696915

Super Dub if that was the case why didn't Liam Rushe get the line for sticking the butt of the hurl in Paul Murphys face no body has spoken about this yet.

johnwhite12 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 306 - 25/02/2015 21:13:26    1696919

I still laugh when I read that Mahers pull was intentional! If he was aiming for his hand he wouldn't have pulled towards the ball. I got an injury myself years ago and it was my own fault for the way I was set up.

Its laughable that someone has highlighted incidents on youtube against rough Tipp play when Tyrell has a compilation of poor frontal charges on youtube also (all on young players too btw)!

Can anyone show me Tyrell hitting a lad shoulder to shoulder?

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 26/02/2015 18:28:21    1697212

Do you laugh at the severety of his injury or are you so blinkered you can not see a problem, that was like Lar Corbett in the 2012 all Ireland semi final all he was doing was running around after Tommy Walsh I wonder about Tipp never get it.

johnwhite12 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 306 - 26/02/2015 19:05:54    1697223

Tiobrad, I guess you are referring to my comment on Padraic Maher. Please point out where I said it was intentional. You will find that I said it was reckless, which it certainly was. He swung one handed and did not make any contact whatsoever with the ball. We can all put clips on youtube. So what if there is one on Jackie Tyrell. 6 or 7 short clips can make a youtube video. It would be very easy to do one on wild pulls by Maher (not necessarily intentional), sure there are 3 from one match but it would be a fairly pointless video, just like the one of Tyrell.

Also, what has your injury got to do with Michael Rice's injury? Are you implying that Michael Rice was somewhat to blame for the injury? He was going to rise the ball and got flaked by a reckless swing. He may not have been intent on badly injuring Rice but he was reckless. It says a lot about you that you belittle the fact that a young man had his finger smashed to the extent that there was 7 pieces of bone that were not even big enough for the screws to go into to insert the plate, but hey he went for the ball so it was his own fault!!

Just for the record, I did not bring up the Maher incident, I simply commented on a previous comment on the incident.

KK4Life (Kilkenny) - Posts: 56 - 27/02/2015 11:43:44    1697349

Kk4life,you make a valid point in relation to the mechanics and angle of P Mahers one handed swing.I agree that the reckless way he swung the hurley allowed it to slide along M Rices hurley to badly damage his hand.I didnt really think of it like that before you said it.I would feel very agrieved if i was Rice.Accident or not,it really shouldnt have happened.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 27/02/2015 12:24:29    1697364

and ultimately the point is he should have got the line regardless of Rices injury. The only way to prevent these accidents is to ensure players put safety before winning and its unfortunate that the only way to get that message across is to hand out red cards - its not happening though.

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1805 - 27/02/2015 13:23:57    1697384

The referees who do blow these frees up are castigated by pundits and managers alike for not letting the game flow, they're not Munster refs or whatever nonsense thrown about.

How can referees win?

Brian Gavin lets everything go and he's flavour of the month with his black and amber friends!

Wee Davy also plays the ref card when things don't go his way, Cody is far from the only one.

bricktop (Down) - Posts: 2503 - 27/02/2015 13:38:10    1697390

JohnWhite dont put all us Tipp people in the one bucket together.
What Maher done intentional or not should not be allowed happen again.
I think Maher is a better player now after that he hasn't pulled a stroke like that thank god.

Some of us do get it were not all the same. Everyone has their view. No one likes to see players injured but berating us all because one guys seems to think differently is a bit harsh.
At least try to direct the answer at that person who made the comment not at all of Tipp people.

WildPundit (Tipperary) - Posts: 1709 - 27/02/2015 14:51:47    1697431

I think thats a fair response wildpundit.I cant stand posters demeaning a whole county over something an individual poster from that county may have said.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 27/02/2015 15:20:14    1697445

Very interesting post! The discussion has thankfully moved away from the original post which is good and posters are now engaging in a better form of discussion!
All counties have had incidents in their past where players have made bad decisions and hurt other players through awkwardness, poor timing, bad technique, lateness in the pull or whatever. Thankfully in the last few years have we witnessed any intentional bad pull? When it has happened all in the hurling world have condemned these. No argument there.

There is however, and there is plenty of it on this post - begrudgery as far as I can see. A pity, but we are Irish and its part of our nature!

A problem I see is the phrase - playing on the edge - what does it mean- To me it implies that teams play with a focus that has little or no respect for the rule and the game and is willing to use any and all nuances in the rules to gain an advantage.
I don't like this phrase. I disagree with it. I don't think that teams play on the edge. I think they try to get first to the ball, beat your opponent to the ball, get more scores than your opponent and win the match! Perhaps that's a naïve interpretation but that's how I see the major counties playing the game.

To my learned Cork friend = regarding the Carlow Westmeath football game a number of years ago when a Cork referee was hung out to dry by the authorities for his interpretation of the new rules at the time - his name was not John O'Keefe - it was Niall ------. Cannot remember his surname! But yes, he was left out to dry, he took incredible abuse from all quarters which was unfair as he had been given an interpretation of the rules BEFORE there was any national referees meeting and hence agreed interpretation of the rules for referees.

Today , there is a major problem if referees are waiting to see how serious a player is injured before they issue a card. The action that merits a card should be ruled on immediately by the referee. If he does not rule on it immediately he is not fit to referee a game in my opinion. The extent of the injury should not be a factor, the referee should be skilled enough and understand the game well enough to make the call without having to see the extent of the injury.

The first Kilkenny red card last week was a very poor call from the referee, the second one for Lyng was a red card and the third one for Sutcliffe was a yellow. I don't think that anybody would believe otherwise...?

carlowman (Carlow) - Posts: 1821 - 27/02/2015 19:40:10    1697510

Excellent post Carlowman. You ought to start up a separate thread though as this current one was set up for the usual motives, as hinted at by you.

westisthebest (Galway) - Posts: 444 - 27/02/2015 20:04:47    1697526