RoyalDunne completely agree. Everybody complained last year when Mayo and Kerry was moved to Limerick but the end product was an electric atmostphere with the Gaelic Grounds jammed. much nicer to watch on TV then seeing Croker with masses of empty seats. oh but no, the GAA will play a league final division 4 and 3 double header there

PoppinPoints (Meath) - Posts: 225 - 20/02/2015 14:05:06    1695319

That's my point. Hq is been devalued by all these games. Surely a compromise could be agrees? The Leinster final will always have to be played there as 50/60 is average attending, now the semis are a different matter, look at this year probable pairing, dubs v Kildare will bring about 30/35 Meath v ? Wexford? Move to O'Connor park what we talking about ,14/20k max. Now if it was Meath v Louth id say hold as a double header in hq, but another possibility of Meath v Westmeath again O'Connor park ideal.
Hold division 2 and 1 finals only in croke park, surely makes sense?? Its not left empty for ages and you don't have those silly spring series which i feel devalue the national stadium for our sport.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 20/02/2015 15:06:44    1695339

i reckon the sport is as popular as it ever was..provincial championships arent though i think..in dublin especially gaa has become bigger and bigger

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 20/02/2015 15:32:57    1695348

From a Dublin perspective championship attendance figures peaked several years back and have declined since, as we have been strolling through Leinster. There was a time when you were lucky to get a ticket for Rd 2 of Leinster now you can virtually buy tickets up to and including the AI 1/4 final. That was unheard of several years back. Even if you look at Hill 16 now, it is never packed for Leinster games, even against Meath, whereas years ago it would have been a death trap. I think a combination of Dublin's Leinster run and the recession, has hit attendances pretty hard. There is a sweet spot when it comes to attendances, you can't be too good and you can't be too bad. You have to be in with a chance. The decline in Dublin LSFC attendance is due to them being too hot in the province, the decline in Offaly hurling attendances is due to them becoming a second tier uncompetitive team. That's why attendances are really good in Ulster. It is competitive.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 20/02/2015 15:53:53    1695354

How I see it home and away agreements should be the norm in provincial championships up to semi final level. In fairness this is for the most part the case in Munster & Connacht. Some exceptions have to be made for Dublin footballers, Waterford and Clare hurlers etc. Dublin shouldn't be completely exempt from away games as it is now, a bit more common sense is needed.

Provincial finals can be at the discretion of the provincial council. In Munster & Connacht they prefer H&A agreements and in Leinster & Ulster they prefer a fixed venue. Fair enough.

Keep the qualifiers as it for Rd 1-3 with first drawn out getting home advantage. For Rd 4 I think the losing provincial finalist should get home advantage.

For AI QF in football provincial champions should get home advantage. If their home ground isn't big enough they can nominate another ground in their province i.e. Kildare-Croke Park, Sligo- McHale

Div 3/4 league finals to be at the home ground of the team that finished top of the division. Could make an argument for Div 2 also.
Same for the lower divisions in hurling.

These few changes reduces the unnecessary games in Croke Park and increases the usage of various county/provincial grounds making their redevelopments more viable.
Encourages teams to do well in their province and rewards the teams finishing highest in the league.

Football league semis to be played at the home ground of 1st & 2nd in the league.

RoyalBadger (Meath) - Posts: 571 - 20/02/2015 15:57:47    1695357

Sadly the damage is done in leinster. There was a time when you had about 5 counties with a chance of winning it. Now you have Dublin. If we're lucky they will take their eyes off the ball once every 5 or 6 years and we'll get a different winner. The 2010 final was magical just like the Kildare v laois finals. Dublin have too much now and it's failed as a competition big time. Galway play in leinster with Antrim for hurling. It's in the best interests of the gaa to have Dublin move to one of the other 3. Maybe rotate it every year. So they play in all 4 over a 4 year period. That would spice things up big time.

For now though I'd be satisfied if some of the leinster quarter and semi finals were just moved out of ccroker. The only time meath should play a leinster match there before the final is when we play against louth or Kildare or Dublin. Games like meath v wexford or meath v westmeath should be in a provincial ground.

Delighted though that meath v wicklow first round this year is in navan. That will maximise the attendance of this fixture. Way more will go than travelled to the same fixture when it was held in carlow a few years ago.

Jack_Goff (Meath) - Posts: 2920 - 20/02/2015 17:40:32    1695370

royaldunne
County: Meath
Posts: 6763

1695339
That's my point. Hq is been devalued by all these games. Surely a compromise could be agrees? The Leinster final will always have to be played there as 50/60 is average attending, now the semis are a different matter, look at this year probable pairing, dubs v Kildare will bring about 30/35 Meath v ? Wexford? Move to O'Connor park what we talking about ,14/20k max. Now if it was Meath v Louth id say hold as a double header in hq, but another possibility of Meath v Westmeath again O'Connor park ideal.
Hold division 2 and 1 finals only in croke park, surely makes sense?? Its not left empty for ages and you don't have those silly spring series which i feel devalue the national stadium for our sport.

Very good post. Where would you suggest playing the Dublin v Kildare game if it is not in Croke Park?

How many would attend a Meath v Louth game? at present? huge crowd in 2010..would a Meath/Louth, Dublin/Kildare combination not attract 60,000?

On another note, it was great to see Nowlan Park in Kilkenny packed for games in the last two years, one league final, one chmapionship game Kilkenny v Tipp and another game between Wexford and Waterford..

WExford Park also had a good crowd for Wexford v Clare, Wexford v Dublin in hurling, Kilkenny V Wexford (about 2 years ago)..in hurling they have seen the light and moved games out of Croke Park..

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 20/02/2015 18:20:20    1695379

yeah ulster attendances are phenomenal even games involving the less successful counties...recession also played role in dubs declining attendance as well as dominance in early rounds...

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 20/02/2015 18:26:33    1695384

Bennybunny. The hard one to call is Dublin v Kildare / Meath prior to a final, as it has potential to attract a bigger crowd than omoore park could hold, but the opposite side of draw could always be held at a neutral venue, yes if we say that this year its Meath v Louth and dubs v Kildare, then i see no option but to hold both as a double header in croke park, cause of the 10 factor Meath v Louth in Leinster would attract huge support from from both counties and dubs and Kildare fans would come in early to watch it, and may well have a larger than usual neutral following too, but that scenario should it happen (and no disrespect to either Westmeath or Wexford) but i think it will happen this year, is a once off thing. After which no double headers should be held again for next 10 years.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 20/02/2015 18:41:24    1695387

Louth v Meath will always attract a hugh crowd. It goes way back to the forties and fifties when eight years in a row the Leinster championship when to either side of the Boyne. Kildare and Dublin along with Louth and Meath double header would attract a crowd of 60,000 plus.

OLLIE (Louth) - Posts: 12224 - 20/02/2015 20:43:10    1695410

If the division 3/4 finals are moved out of Croke Park are we saying that intercounty footballers from Clare, Limerick, Sligo etc can give up all reasonable hope of ever playing in Croke Park? What about junior and intermediate club finals, play these in small provincial grounds as well as it makes economic sense? And most people on here give out about the GAA bodies forgetting sporting integrity and just concentrating on finances!

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 20/02/2015 21:25:47    1695417

Soma
County: UK
Posts: 866

1695417 If the division 3/4 finals are moved out of Croke Park are we saying that intercounty footballers from Clare, Limerick, Sligo etc can give up all reasonable hope of ever playing in Croke Park? What about junior and intermediate club finals, play these in small provincial grounds as well as it makes economic sense? And most people on here give out about the GAA bodies forgetting sporting integrity and just concentrating on finances! [/I]

You make a good point to be fair. The GAA allow primary schools all over the country into play on Croke Park on a regular basis. Nobody on this thread, as far as I am aware, has suggested moving the All-Ireland club finals away from Croke Park?

Most of the debate is about moving the Leinster games that only 1/4 fill Croke Park.

Your post seems to concentrate on who would lose out (ie players have a reduced chance of playing in Croke Park).

There were 10 leinster football games last year, 5 played in provincial grounds, 2 double headers in Croke Park that each had over 40000, and the leinster final. In hurling all games were played in provincial grounds except the final. I support the idea of Dublin playing their opening championship game each year away from Croke Park even though it would mean supporters missing out due to capacity issues, but other than that I think the leinster council are spreading the games quite well. Both semis have to be played in Croke Park (assuming Dublin are one of the 4 teams) or else their final opponents would be screaming about their players not having the chance to play in Croke Park like the Dubs had.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 21/02/2015 10:45:41    1695438

Soma totally disagree, yes dubs should not play first game in hq, but trust me players prefer playing in packed provincial ground than a empty croke park, i was talking to one of the lads after league 3 final and he said it was most surreal experience he ever felt, going up for a ball on a complete empty side of stadium and a seagull near the ball, he said it was worst atmosphere he played in. Playing in croke park was a honor in my day, and very few ever did, now every tom dick and harry plays in ot at some stage. Its over used and devaluing its significance

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 21/02/2015 11:32:06    1695445

It is grand for you to say that Royaldunne, under the system suggested on here Meath will still more than likely be appearing in Croke Park fairly often. What if you are from Fermanagh, Antrim, Sligo, Leitrim, Longford etc? Just forget about ever playing in Croke Park and maybe as a supporter see your county there once in your lifetime if you are lucky? Tipperary played Clare in last years Division 4 final - it would need to be a very small provincial ground for them to pack it in April. The financial benefit moving such a game to places like Tullamore would have on the local town/stadium would be fairly small as well. And while you say that players prefer playing in packed provincial grounds, look at the fuss created by both players and management with having last years All-Ireland semi final replay in Limerick, which actually made good sense. It is the nature of the GAA supporter that no matter what decision is made by the people in Croke Park, the opposite would have been better.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 21/02/2015 11:59:09    1695453

Dublin play in Croke Park for financial reasons. Biggest crowd, biggest venue. Bums on seats.

The other stadia are just inaccessible really. Thurles is an awful ground, awful to get to. As is Portlaoise, as it hasnt the capacity to hold a Dublin football crowd due to poor amenities/parking.

Look I know the thing people say is unfair advantage/spread the wealth etc. but Dublin have little say where and when they play. 200k bailout happens because of the revenues Croke Park brings and particularly the Dubs.

JayP (Dublin) - Posts: 1772 - 21/02/2015 12:55:08    1695461

Soma. What did Tipp Clare do beforehand? I remember Clare winning the Munster title and the crowds they brought was unreal, if it happens again it wont have same appeal.devaluing .Jayp both disagree and agree, yes dubs get more support in cause its on the doorstep, but succes is cyclical, what happens when say Offaly Laois Westmeath Kildare Meath are winning? You and i both know the crowds Dublin bring will at least halve, and i do think omoore park could accommodate alot of dubs games, now let me tell you croke park is no picnic for some travelling fans either, can often be stuck in a car park for hours after a match.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 21/02/2015 13:23:27    1695464

Its hard to have sympathy for counties who complain about Dublin not playing their games away when they are the people who control where the games are played. Laois, Offaly get far more non own county games than any other county - Wexford only get their own games and yet its a 20+ grounds and they are not complaining about not having big games played there. I spend more time watching club games than intercounty games at the grounds in Wexford and that is the way it should be, while it would be great to accommodate big games, if you can't then focus on providing comfortable facilities for the club supporters and players. Most counties should have 3 or 4 grounds with reasonable covered seating that would seat 2k people at min. A choice of playing county games at home and having one big stadium or playing them away and having 3/4 smaller ones so I don't get soaked watching club games - I will travel to Croker all the time.

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1805 - 21/02/2015 15:33:25    1695492

The problem is county boards building purpose built white elephants. GAA is partially responsible, encouraging these I'll advised projects with saddle counties with unserviceable debt. And there is no end to these mindless building projects, millions upon millions being spent and then its all Dublin's fault!!

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4898 - 21/02/2015 15:59:22    1695503

I agree arock however its not Croke Park's fault, they leave to county boards to decide what to do themselves, they have no power to intervene in a Counties internal affairs. Put the blame where it deserves to be back to the clubs and county boards - you could argue that CP didn't do anything to discourage counties but even if they did would they have been listened to - no. County boards are notoriously independent and would almost do the opposite to what CP asks them to do.

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1805 - 21/02/2015 16:46:37    1695516