Hill, do you know the name of the type of training that had different schedules for backs, midfielders, forwards outside of team training, because depending on their position each player makes different runs, uses different muscle groups? Has that been around for years or is it still being done?

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7346 - 24/02/2015 11:28:30    1696251

Id say league of Ireland players would be a bit fitter than your average comic-store owner. But thats about it

flack (Dublin) - Posts: 1054 - 24/02/2015 13:36:22    1696304

themaster

In fairness, it is conceivable that they do the same fitness test. He doesn't have to be running the thing to see the results. Gaa people tend to poo-poo the fitness levels of soccer players, yet central midfielders run time and a half what any gaa player does, that has been proven over and over. Now they do another 20 minutes in a game, but even taking that into account, they are still running more.
Also, to claim soccer players don't use strength is complete nonsense.

it would make no sense for them to do the same fitness tests
as both sports focus on different fitness aspects so doing the exact same tests would make no sense
it be like doing a bleep test with a body builder when he doesnt train that system.
Im not poo pooing as you say anybodys fitness levels
the point is you NEED to be all round fitter to play inter county football
than you NEED to be to play league of ireland soccer
that is the difference, a darts player and soccer player dont need fitness to play their sports but that in no way undermines
their other attributes that make them successfull at that sport.
Nobody is saying they dont use strength
what im saying is they dont focus on strength work like a rugby player would as they dont need it in their sport
and it would take away from their agaility which is a huge aspect in the make up of a soccer player.

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 24/02/2015 14:27:17    1696333

GreenandRed
County: Mayo
Posts: 1352

1696251
Hill, do you know the name of the type of training that had different schedules for backs, midfielders, forwards outside of team training, because depending on their position each player makes different runs, uses different muscle groups? Has that been around for years or is it still being done?

its is basically just personalized training programmes that I think your after
yeah rugby is a good example of what your asking for
as a front row in rugby would almost need an entirely different training regime to a full back we will say.
rugby would be the main sport to use this as each position is almost a completly different job requiring different fitness aspects.
in gaa terms its not as much a seasonal thing
you would have players on different pre season programmes to focus like you say on improving their fitness where needed most
but once the season is up and running most teams will use circuit training for their strength and core work
which would be mostly same exercises just different weight depending on the individual.
where as cardio on the pitch would be verys similiar except for ball work.

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 24/02/2015 14:43:17    1696337

oh and that was a darts player and a golf player that was ment to be said in the post to the master

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 24/02/2015 16:10:04    1696384

Hill, soccer players and football players require very similar fitness. They both do bleep tests the same way, they both do CO2 max tests the same way. You are talking like they are poles apart when they are very similar. gaa players use a bit more upper body strength, soccer players have stronger legs, that is about it as regards differences.

Also, you seem to be interchanging physical fitness and physical strength. Fitness in this context is a measure of anaerobic capacity.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 24/02/2015 17:07:25    1696411

Not often I say this, but TheMaster is pretty right here hill!

Having trained both soccer and GAA players I would have to say if you were doing beep tests (Loughborough uni developed 20 m shuttle run), soccer players would tend to outperform Gaa players. It's down to different meso-types. Generally soccer players at a semi elite to elite level are less muscular all round. It's beneficial on vo2 max/shuttle run tests. They are lighter all round. Gaa players have become more muscular, and upper body strength requirements tend to lead to heavier frames that perform less well on traditional fitness tests.

It's a silly argument though, both sports require different kinds of fitness. Modern day midfielders, wing forwards and wing backs may be compared to box to box midfield soccer players. But the movement requirements are different.

Also, on a point about soccer players, I played soccer and Gaelic football and wasn't windy. To generalise like that is unfair. I played 5 aside with a few Gaa county players from different counties who couldn't play soccer, they were brutal. Couldn't understand how they were so coordinated at one sport, and useless at the other!

But to say LOI soccer players aren't as fit as county players is ludicrous. Although strength and conditioning is important in soccer, they require nimble feet, and a high cardiovascular fitness levels. I challenge any Gaa player to play up front, or go watch LOI striker and then tell me that these guys are fit.

JayP (Dublin) - Posts: 1772 - 24/02/2015 17:59:15    1696436

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 12711

1696411
Hill, soccer players and football players require very similar fitness. They both do bleep tests the same way, they both do CO2 max tests the same way. You are talking like they are poles apart when they are very similar. gaa players use a bit more upper body strength, soccer players have stronger legs, that is about it as regards differences.
Also, you seem to be interchanging physical fitness and physical strength. Fitness in this context is a measure of anaerobic capacity.

gaa players have significantly heavier upper body training in comparison to soccer at top levels in both.
soccer players dont have stronger legs haha id love to know how you define that?
why is fitness in this context only measuring anaerobic levels?
both sports are atheltic games so you ned to measure both systems to gauge the levels of fitness required

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 24/02/2015 18:49:57    1696466

jayp
what are you on about man
a lot of that is an opinion that you possess having played with a couple of club teams
if you tested shamrock rovers and dublin senior footballers on
full body composition, strength, power, endurance, speed and stamina.
these would be the commonly used principles in both of the sports
I guarantee you dublin footballers would be as a team ahead in an overall context.
as a gaa inter county season is differently periodised compared to a soccer season
a gaa championship match build up has taken on a similair trend to a boxer
where they train to peak for each game with three weeks the average gap in championship matches
soccer players tend to play week in week out so its completly different

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 24/02/2015 18:59:45    1696476

Hill, I like your posts most of the time. But you are wrong here.

I'll give you an example, as a team, Leinster would outperform, easily I might add, the Dublin footballers at many of your criteria. That doesn't mean Sean O'Brien will compete with Jack McCaffery in a 12 minute run or beep test.

I played Gaelic Football and soccer my whole life. And you don't know my background in coaching/training either sport. Lets just say the fitness requirements for both sports are quite different and gaa has become very influenced by sports science and other sports approaches to fitness, particularly rugby. But you are extremely naive if you think LOI players aren't as fit as intercounty players. Different game, different sport specific skills and fitness requirements.

John Hayes isn't as fit as a point guard in basketball, I wouldnt like to see a point guard in a scrum with John Hayes.

Soccer players cardiovascular levels at elite levels are quite high because of the nature of their sport.

The comparison between sports is unhelpful.

Like say hurling is more skilful than Olympic 10 meter diving. Or floor gymnastics. Or tennis....

JayP (Dublin) - Posts: 1772 - 24/02/2015 19:41:40    1696488

The reference to boxers? Unhelpful. The GAA calender is used too much when talking about winning/losing. Donegal get beat early this year in Ulster, and hit the qualifiers and play Dublin in AI quarters. (Hypothetical - Nobody knows what will really happen).

Dublin win: The reason we lost is Dublin had a three week break and we looked tired after the long qualifier road.

Donegal win: Donegal were battle hardened from the long road. Nothing beats regular games.

Different sports, different requirements....

JayP (Dublin) - Posts: 1772 - 24/02/2015 19:51:41    1696493

jayp thats the whole thing im saying
you keep missing the original point I made
that their is a need to be fitter all round to play gaa
where as to play soccer you dont need to be as fit
its not a slant on any individual its just the maths of it all
a gaa pitch is bigger and the ball moves quicker the tempo and the intensity of the game is far higher
therefore there is a need to be all round fitter
where as certain aspects of a soccer players make up will make them fitter
the same as certain aspects of a rugby players make up will make them fitter
but in an overall fitness context the demands on a gaa players fitness is higher than either of them sports.

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 24/02/2015 20:33:34    1696512

JayP
I challenge any Gaa player to play up front, or go watch LOI striker and then tell me that these guys are fit.
Isnt this exactly what Eoin Skinner Bradley is doing for Glenavon, and managing just fine at it? Alright it is the northern equivalent but the point stands.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 24/02/2015 20:36:10    1696514

an elite soccer player a comparison would be valid but considering our league is about at the level of league 2 in england or around that?...think the fitness levels wouldnt be too high

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 24/02/2015 21:05:21    1696535

I know one of the young lads on the Rovers team and he tells me McMahon's standards are extremely high.

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8592 - 24/02/2015 21:08:34    1696540

Soma, and Bradley just walked off a GAA pitch in Derry and decided to take up soccer at the highest level up north.

Darren O'Sullivan was a youth at QPR. Came back and is playing for Kerry? Soccer player finds Gaa fitness easy?

............................

Hill, soccer games last 90 mins. Is the ball in play more?

I never get the intensity comments. So you are telling me Mayo playing London is intense? Mayo playing Kerry is in summer! A big soccer game is as emotionally and physically draining depending on the calibre of the teams playing.

All round fitter? Is Rob Kearney not all round fitter than Jack McCaffery!? Who would you want playing wing back for your Gaa team? Apples and oranges really.

Skill requirements and movement types are different for every sport.

It's too simplistic to say one sport is all round fitter than another.

JayP (Dublin) - Posts: 1772 - 24/02/2015 21:22:39    1696551

Realdub.......

On that theory to the comparable sport of AFL, most intercounty teams are conference standard.

I think there is still and us and them childish attitude when talking about Gaa and soccer. The top LOI teams are extremely fit. Barcelona have made City look pretty unfit tonight. How many Gaa teams could claim superior fitness to top LOI soccer clubs?

These arguments have to be taken in context.

JayP (Dublin) - Posts: 1772 - 24/02/2015 21:30:00    1696556

Sorry real dub I meant Fabio, apologies

JayP (Dublin) - Posts: 1772 - 24/02/2015 21:31:41    1696559

i dont think barca made city look unfit tonight..they just made them look like the level of skill and technique was a complete different level which is hardly unexpected considerable the lineups of both sides.....i agree that people can be very petty about soccer in this country and it doesnt get the respect it deserves..in what way are gaa players conference standard compared to the afl in your opinion?..i would disagree...i wouldnt consider league of ireland players to be that fit no..the standard is quite poor although soccer is a much different fitness to gaa just like rugby is a lot different..its very hard to compare sports

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 24/02/2015 21:42:34    1696568

jayp

the pace and intensity of gaelic football is higher than soccer thats obvious no matter what level
you say mayo playing london
sure you could also say shamrock rovers playing athlone town
you sound like a woman with your emotionally draining
too much shades of grey i think you been watching!
obviously id rather jack mccfrey playing wing back for my gaa team as hes a gaa player who plays wing back
and Id problem fancy mccfrey to be faster,more agile and have more stamina than kearney
where as kearney id say is physically stronger.
not too simplistic of you measure the main components of athletic fitness
you can gauge it but your missing the whole point
GAA NEEDS TO HAVE HIGHER FITNESS LEVELS
just like darts and golf need better hand to eye coordination than most sports

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 24/02/2015 21:46:56    1696573