Hill, Dublin tactically were hopelessly naive. Once Christy Toye came on and Donegal started to win their kick outs regularly they took Dublin apart. Donegal's game plan was entirely predictable . They didn't deviate one bit from what they had done right through out the campaign. Defend in numbers with discipline and break at pace from deep. For God's sake they even brought Paddy McBrearty on at the same time as they had done in previous games. Colm McFadden had his best game in two years. Why ? Because he was given the freedom of Croke Park. Dublin's half backs followed their men and left their full backs exposed. in the final, two of Kerry's half backs were at all times sitting on their own fifty yard line and they picked up Donegal's runners as they came through. In the second half directly underneath me Donegal reverted to their " go to" kick out to Neil Gallagher. Dublin had nothing in place to combat it. All that had to be done was to drop a half back in to block Gallaghers run. Both Armagh and Monaghan had done this in previous matches. Dublin had nothing in place. Dublin were tactically naive. It wasn't that thy didn't play well. For fifty minutes they were not let play well. Once Donegal steadied the ship they took Dublin apart. Give credit where credit is due.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 03/02/2015 19:59:50    1689807

The biggest joke of all was when McGhee was in the running for Player of the Year ha as Barry O Shea said before the final "you could be 40 and still play in that Donegal full back line" ,the lads who invented football must be turning in there graves with the rubbish that's on view nowadays. God I use to love seeing clashes like Mickey linden v Coleman of Derry man on man none of this ten other lads around ya lark. Even last years all Ireland James O Donoghue who I love watching whose a freak of a player was completely out of the game and had no impact cause of this blanket stuff and trust me if you think it's bad now wait til you see how bad it's going to get. Like if I were from a county that plays 14 men in there own half for most of a game Id stop going to watch it just wouldn't mean as much to me watching my team play like that.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 03/02/2015 20:25:53    1689815

Stay at home so . Out thought, out fought and out played. Michael Murphy isn't skilful ? Karl Lacey isn't skilful ? Anthony Thompson, the McGees and Frank McGlynn aren't accomplished footballers ? Neil Gallagher isn't a powerhouse of a midfielder with great hands and vision? Your derogatory remarks show a lack of appreciation of what constitutes good footballers.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 03/02/2015 20:49:54    1689830

its just laughable stuff..mcgee is a brilliant footballer..o donoghue had plenty of influence in the game if you actually watched it closely...he dropped deep and was heavily involved in playmaking and getting on the ball in the second half v donegal creating opportunites for others..this is the same poster who was trying to make out this was the best team ever

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 03/02/2015 21:16:42    1689841

Dublin got taken apart against Donegal last year, shipped 3 goals, should have shipped 6. Yes it was utter tactical suicide on our part but take nothing away from Donegal.

But that's football, you win and lose and there's always next year to put it right. The fact remains that the All Ireland is incredibly difficult to retain.

seany16 (Dublin) - Posts: 1658 - 03/02/2015 21:26:39    1689845

If they were so good when do they need 14 lads in there own half ? Come out and play ffs show us what your really made of.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 03/02/2015 21:34:12    1689849

Clondalkindub is right, why pay €80 for a final to watch both teams scared to press forward for fear of being caught on a counter attack!?
Yes, with the amount of training (wayyyyyyyyy too much in proportion to matches) going on these days and the sport professional in all but name, it is harsh on the 'bigger' foothandball counties that if they get a tough draw and lose, they are out, and the same with giving the 'smaller' counties more game time, but the qualifiers has run its course, and a lot of teams don't have the 'sweat blood to win' mentality of old as they know there is a 2nd chance. This greatly dilutes the quality of most matches, and the integrity of the association. All the qualifiers does is give the big teams a 2nd chance if they are caught cold. As a hurler, the current system is fine (apart from gaps between winning province and AI semi) as less teams at same level.
But, most counties have the over the last 125+ years, built up a reputation and a style of play that they have for the most part stuck with through the years, with tweaks here and there through different eras. The main ones that spring to mind are Kerry, Meath, Galway, and Down.
And now look, every county in Ulster plays blanket defenses and sweepers and a counter attack system that focuses on intricate hand passing to make it work. The old traditions are dead and buried because disciplined average joe teams, like Donegal, have proven that great players don't necessarily win titles, but a good system will, and now everyone has jumped on the same bandwagon. None more so than the traditional footballing powerhouse that is Kerry, as shown in Sept 2014.
Yes I understand that some people love the tactical wars of attrition and blanket defense tactics, and they are entitled to their views. And if you gave a 'smaller' county the sports science and tactics of Donegal, Tyrone etc and they won an AI, they would p**s on tradition.
Hopefully, but not likely, the grassroots and traditions and values of the association will prevail over time, but I'm not holding my breath...

beansycpn (Down) - Posts: 128 - 04/02/2015 09:34:40    1689874

Football as it should be played? Name one county team that does that.
The great skills of Gaelic football are long range point kicking, kick passing, high fielding, man v man contests for possession. No county practices much of this and if you try to you are called naïve.

Dublin don't bother with high fielding
Mayo, Dublin and Donegal play a running game with little kickpassing as do 95% of counties, even Kerry only kick the ball from the 45m line in and rarely out of defence.
Donegal and Kerry don't do man v man marking and any county that does loses a game and gets called naïve (Mayo, Dublin, All of Leinster)

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Personally, I wouldn't go to watch Mayo if they played like Donegal. That's no slight on Donegal they can play whatever football they like as far as I'm concerned. Once time football director of Real Madrid, Jose Valdano once described Jose Morinho's style of football as "shit on a stick". I would use the same description for a 11-13 man defensive style of football.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1126 - 04/02/2015 09:39:42    1689875

Nonsense Clondalkin. They did come out to play. They did show you what they were made of and they took you apart all over the field. They were the better footballers playing the better football. That is something that most fair minded supporters acknowledge. Most Dublin contributors are fair minded and they acknowledge that on the day Donegal were better.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 04/02/2015 09:54:47    1689879

Tirawleybaron I would agree with everything you say except Dublin kick the ball a lot.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 04/02/2015 10:07:49    1689882

Greengrass


you clearly watch dublin games on tv and dont attend them
dublins midfield are both build on having an engine and getting up and down the pitch
when they do this the attacking game works perfectly well
when they dont work at getting back when we lose the ball you get what happened against kerry in the first 25 minutes in
the semi final in 2013, the first 40 minutes against cork in the league semi final in 2014
and pretty much the entire game against donegal in that semi final.
dont think donegals gameplan was predictable at all as i watched them play against armagh and they played totally different.
they didnt play a negative game plan against dublin they attacked and more times than not had 7 or 8 players inside the dublin 45
which against armagh they probably didnt have at any time during the match.
also you say it was donegal didnt let dublin play well for 50 minutes
well we kicked 17 points and kicked 13 wides so I dont think mcguinness would have been pleased with allowing 30 socring chances.

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 04/02/2015 10:22:45    1689891

tirawleybaron

dublin dont use kickpassing i have heard it all from you this week haha

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 04/02/2015 10:24:50    1689893

Simple question - Would you prefer to be 'right' or would you prefer to win!?

A manager sets his team out to win at all costs and rightly so.
People remember the winner not the loser who played the 'right' way!

GAAHattrick (Dublin) - Posts: 278 - 04/02/2015 10:27:03    1689894

Hill, I saw Dublin live in competitive action in the Leinster Final, All-Ireland quarter final and All-Ireland semi final last year. I saw them live five times in 2013. I attend Croke Park approx ten to twelve times a year. I was involved with a county team who played Dublin in competitive football last year. I know what they are about.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 04/02/2015 10:55:12    1689908

hill16no1man

My apologies for not saying Dublin are the best footballing team ever. Nothing but wonderfull kickpassing on show at all times. Except that they handpass the ball twice as much as they kick it.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1126 - 04/02/2015 11:11:39    1689917

Greengrass is spot on regarding his analysis of the Dublin/Donegal semi final.

I really do not get this notion that Donegal are a totally negative team. Indeed I think it suited McGuinness to foster that notion through his media interventions!

The 2011 semi final was a terrible mess - although fascinating to watch despite what PS said!! - but it almost worked, partly through Donegal maybe not having the confidence they had in 2012 to go for jugular when they had sucked other teams in. They were excoriated for that but I recall Gilroy saying immediately afterwards that that was within the rules and every team cuts its cloth to suit its measure. As Dublin did the year afterwards indeed, after losing games they should have won in Gilroy's first two years including an All Ireland semi final and league final, both against a cuter Cork team.

I did not think Donegal would beat Dublin last year but having watched them previously I knew they would be far bigger threat than the bookies and punters believed. I remember watching their demolition of Derry in Ulster in a ten minute burst at start of second half during a dire game, and thinking these were one shrewd shower of fkers! Didn't think Dublin would get caught but we did. Ce la vie and good luck to them.

Anyone who watches rugby or NFL will appreciate that tactical genius can often be the difference in winning and losing, even where one team is perceived to be 'better'. The better team is the team with the most points on the board at the end. I think Vince Lombardi said that!

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 04/02/2015 11:22:06    1689923

Another post taken over by the Dub Vs Don debate. Original post was supposed to be about how the game is played. Case of horse for courses as I see it. If there's a particular style or system (whatever) and it's within the rules, which suits the players at a managers disposal, then fair enough. It's up to the opposition to get the better of them.
With regard to the "tradionalists" out there, in my opinion Kerry (last year) adapted their game to suit their players in order to give them the best chance of winning, and it worked. Was it wrong, answer is NO!. Same argument could be made for Tyrone in the last decade, perennial whipping boys until MH adapted to a style that gave them the best chance of winning.
Bottom line is, there is no "right way" or "wrong way" to play the game, you either play it well or you don't depending on the players available.

moylagh (Meath) - Posts: 484 - 04/02/2015 11:53:09    1689937

To say it doesn't take good players to play defensive football is wrong because if it was that easy then we would have far more competitive teams.
If defensive football was easy Cavan would have several more all Ireland's
I prefer to see teams playing more open football but at end of day it is about winning.
For too long ulster teams went up to croke park played nice football were beaten got a clap on the back and were sent home.
Its only when we started wining that were destroying football.
When Dublin and Kerry play defensive its OK an ulster team does it its puke football.

tom84 (Cavan) - Posts: 334 - 04/02/2015 12:34:00    1689956

I get the feeling that clondalkin is just upset that his all time hero Rory O'Carroll has been overlooked on so many an occasion in favour of Neil McGee.
A triple All-Star and player of the year contender in 2014. But an average player in clondalkin's estimation, the rest of the GAA community have obviously been wrong for the past 4 or 5 years then.

Jeez I must get on the Rory Gallagher, while still in my early thirties surely there's a spot in the full back line for me this year.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9154 - 04/02/2015 12:55:22    1689971

Lockjaw never once did I say McGhee was average show me where I said that please? Even a great Gaa man like yourself can acknowledge that it's a bit easier to defend if your a full back when you've 14 of your own men in your half of the field. I've always said that Donegal are great at what they do but I hate it I think it's rotten and no good in the long run for our game , that's my opinion and nothing will change it people on here think I don't like certain counties which is untrue I like all counties accept meath and kildare, do posters really think I'd be slating Donegal if they played like Dublin or Mayo?

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 04/02/2015 13:30:59    1689984