Fabio to say that coc scored simple frees in the 2011 Connacht finals is rubbish, in a game in terrible conditions he kicked over high pressured kicks from every angle and a long distance. When Mayo have needed coc he has delivered granted not always but most of the time while you cannot say the same about Clarke who did not score against Donegal in 2014, Galway 2013 and the second half against Roscommon in 2012. All games which Armagh lost and got knocked out of the championship as a result. That Armagh got to the quarter final last year the are not a bad team. Only 3 players scored more then coc from play in 2014 and only 2 in 2013. I am sure if he was from Dublin he would be on the team.

ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 11/02/2015 21:27:54    1692675

ROS1

He'd be on the panel but would struggle to hold a starting place

I've no doubts about that

We already have excellent free kick takers... and Id sooner have EOG over C'OC

I really mean that... EOG won us the 2013 All Ireland final... even when injured he was such a threat that he still took Mayo's best player out of the game

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 11/02/2015 21:37:37    1692685

most of those games were complete utter beatdowns and very one sided against very ordinary teams in connaught...he is very ordinary from play..explain his performances in numerous high profile games where he was poor?..why are mayo regarded as lacking a top class forward?..because he isnt 1...he scored frees in that final but the majority of them were fairly straight forward..being a good free taker doesnt make you a top forward..if you cant win your own ball consistently then you are not a top forward..he is a good player and good finisher but not top class and benefits greatly from being part of a good side..this year is the first time clarke has been part of a solid armagh team..they are still no great shakes...and mayo have been much superior for a number of years

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 11/02/2015 21:37:54    1692687

delivered adding goals to beatdowns in connaught isnt exactly considered delivering..when has he delivered?..you do realise beating roscommon in a connacht final isnt exactly considered much for a mayo team?

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 11/02/2015 21:38:58    1692688

you will notice i havent been bigging up clarke all that much although i do feel he is better than o connor as offers a lot more from play..his club displays have also been much better...nobody considers brosnan from wexford a top forward but i think he came top on scoring 1 time..those scoring stats largely favour good free takers

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 11/02/2015 21:41:18    1692689

Jimbob i thing 2013 was more to do with Mayo poor management then anything O'Gara did. Eog is not in the same class as coc. Fabio cheap dig aside Mayo would not have won that final without him playing that day and Mayo had lost to Longford the previous year and got took to extra time against London that year the have improved since with the help of coc. Clarke was given a platform this year which he failed to take and when Armagh needed him over the last 3 years he has failed to show up. Many all Ireland's were won by having a better free taker then the opposition.

ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 11/02/2015 22:02:34    1692708

E'OG had a far bigger impact on that game than C'OC did... when he came on he completely turned the game on it's head and Dublin got on top

He scored 2 points from play - one point coming from quite an incredible save by the Mayo keeper

They had to switch Higgins onto him thus making it more difficult for Mayo going forward - Higgins being Mayo's best players IMO and giving them great momentum moving forward had to be confined to wherever E'OG stood

EOG got out in front and knocked the ball back to Kev Mc - injuring himself in the process but that action created BB's 2nd goal

He was such a threat that his sheer presences was enough to cause major confusion on the Mayo sideline and when Dublin were losing men all over the shop and having to throw out the plan book

Mayo lost their best player in Higgins marking an injured man...EOG simply standing on the pitch did that

When did C'OC ever have such an impact on an All Ireland final... the biggest stage - the ultimate test

Because of this...it's EOG all the way for me... he proved it on the highest stage...

E'OG for me... won us that All Ireland in 2013. C'OC can't touch him in that regard.... and that's the ultimate test - which he has failed.

Not a great player in my own opinion...

He'd be a panel player for Dublin.. and you'd def see E'OG starting ahead of him on certain occasions

No questions about it....

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 12/02/2015 09:02:56    1692716

From play - championship football top scorer 2014

James O'Donoghue, Kerry 2-20 (26) 5.2avg
Paul Geaney, Kerry 1-14 (17) 2.83avg
Con Sweeney, Tipperary 3-7 (16) 3.2avg
Cillian O'Connor, Mayo 1-12 (15) 2.5avg
Shane Walsh, Galway 1-12 (15) 3.0avg
Shane McGrath, Clare 1-12 (15) 3.0avg
Paul Flynn, Dublin 1-12 (15) 3.0avg
Danny Cummins, Galway 2-9 (15) 3.0avg
Conor Laverty, Down 2-8 (14) 3.5avg
Diarmuid Connolly, Dublin 2-8 (14) 2.8avg


So another three players scored the same from play as COC did last summer Walsh Galway is younger than O Connor while Flynn's strength isn't his scoring. Diarmuid Connolly for all his talent doesn't score as much as he should i'm open to correction but i think i read it somewhere else that he only scored 0-3 in total in his last three club games with St Vincents.

No surprise that top scorers from play came from the All Ireland winning team.

The_analyser (Roscommon) - Posts: 3758 - 12/02/2015 09:29:47    1692725

Fabio, in fairness, he fairly stood up in the two Kerry games last year. He was the best forward on the field for much of the first game - a field he shared with JOD. He was doing damage in the second game too, until he had to go off. People seem to have forgotten about those games because mayo lost.

Jimbo we know all that, I am saying it all month, no mayo player would get a sniff in the Dublin set up. But you have to factor in the bottling factor with Dublin. We seen their ability to hammer donegal last week, then come the big game and they don't show up like, as you say, great players should. Brogan Connolly and Flynn really fluffed their lines there. If he was playing for Dublin, then when push came to shove Id imagine they would need the guy who rattled off a hat trick against that defence to carry them on his back over the line - 13 points in all actually; one more than what Connolly, brogan and Flynn scored, combined...

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 12/02/2015 09:49:00    1692731

O'Connor is only 22 and will be the top forward in the country in the next few years.

Where was JOD at 22? Bernard Brogan etc?

O'Connor is the future and would walk into the Dublin team imo.

No need for the sad attempts by Master though. Got no one to agree with you last time with that talk but sure by all means try again and we'll see how well you go.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13711 - 12/02/2015 09:56:54    1692733

11/02/2015 13:39:29
aido_d2015
County: Kerry
Posts: 1

1692462 I might be totally wrong but, I dont get the hype about Cillian O'Connor. He never seems to contribute much from play and I'd nearly wager 75% of his scores are from placed balls.

He is a dependable free taker I think and lacks the burst of pace to really be a top forward. I see people mentioning him as a possible great but I dont agree. If I was offered a choice between Cillian O'Connor and Colm O'Neill I would take O'Neill every time. O'Neill just seems more of a game breaker.

As for those saying he is only 22 etc. Cooper was only 19 in his first final and 21 when he won the All Ireland in 04 where he was unplayable. I have yet to see a big championship game in Croke Park where O'Connor has been unmarkable.

In the 2012 final he kicked 5 frees and nothing from play. In the 2013 final he kicked 8 frees nothing from play. In the 2012 Semi against dublin he only kicked 1 from play. In the 2013 Semi he kicked 3 frees only.

I think he kicked 1-3 from play over the two games against Kerry this year. Hardly the stats of a top marks man. Last year O'Connor only scored 1-12 from play.

Considering mayo played new york thats a poor enough return. He played 6 games so on average he kicked 2.5 points from play last year. Not exactly prolific.

How many points did Jim Donoghue score in All Ireland last year? He couldnt even keep his man scoreless

HughHunt24 (Cork) - Posts: 841 - 12/02/2015 09:57:48    1692735

themaster, sure all dublin had to do last year was turn up in croker, but they got their arses handed to them.

saddam (Mayo) - Posts: 414 - 12/02/2015 09:58:43    1692737

Mayo are lucky that the only defender in the country who can handle Cillian O'Connor is Keith Higgins.

Miler (Mayo) - Posts: 1015 - 12/02/2015 10:22:48    1692751

Jimbodub is eight about EOG...he was the game changer for Dublin in 2013 and the MVP (most valuable player) for that season, he won the A.I. for the Dubs. What is the point about this thread? Mayo would pick EOG ahead of COC ( an excellent player) for the last 30 minutes of any game, I know I would.

suckvalleypaddy (Galway) - Posts: 1669 - 12/02/2015 10:34:13    1692757

All those players you mentioned are multiple All Ireland winners themaster....

Unfortunately Dublin were just completely out foxed and out fought last year

It was hard to watch us getting dismantled like that.. but that's exactly what happened

It was a complete system break down and the decisions were not made to counter act such... Deer in headlights

Donegal just played to their strengths and it was more than good enough

But all you can do is learn from it

Hopefully we can... and I can see signs that perghaps we have.. but until the real stuff starts it's hard to know...

If we dont learn those lessons then I cant see us winning the AI this year... how could we... the state of us for 3/4 of the Donegal game... all over the shop - naive, tactically inept, spurning chances.

I mean it's not like we were 5 points up with 3 minutes to go against Kerry with one foot in the final... having played them off the field in the 2nd half and making them look like chumps.

But it was still a complete mess alright...

But anyway

C'OC would struggle for a starting place on the Dublin team

If I could hand pick a couple of Mayo players he wouldn't be in my picks

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 12/02/2015 10:41:57    1692762

suckvalleypaddy
County: Galway
Posts: 389

1692757
Jimbodub is eight about EOG...he was the game changer for Dublin in 2013 and the MVP (most valuable player) for that season, he won the A.I. for the Dubs. What is the point about this thread? Mayo would pick EOG ahead of COC ( an excellent player) for the last 30 minutes of any game, I know I would.


Damn straight he did!

The fella was immense against Mayo in that Final... and it completely derailed Mayo's momentum in the 1st half when he was introduced

Priceless... such was the magnitude of his impact that it rattled the Mayo management so much that they left their best player marking him, when EOG only had one functioning leg! hahahaha

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 12/02/2015 10:51:38    1692768

think hes excellent finisher master but he cant win his own ball and doesnt do enough from play..that would be my issue with him and why i dont think hes a top forward...good free taker and very good finisher..to be a top forward you should be cleaning whoever you are marking or a major threat the majority of the time...o connor is part of a poor mayo forward line in my own opinion.

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 12/02/2015 14:58:51    1692925

this one is dragging on. O'Connor is very good. In the top 3 forwards in the country in terms of effectiveness in my view. The game's about getting scores and he's excellent at doing that. Plenty of so called "top forwards (next thing we'll be talking about top, top forwards!)" are easier on the eye than O'Connor but they don't score near as much as him. Look at the stats from the championship over the last 3 years.
How many forwards have scored more than him? None.
How many have scored more from play? 1 or 2 maybe

pdempsey (Mayo) - Posts: 1313 - 12/02/2015 15:27:53    1692946

Fabio, he won all his own ball against Kerry though. He won the penalty too. I don't get what you are trying to say, he wins his own ball every bit as much as the gooch for example. Maybe you should define what winning your own ball is for you, because to me, it seems you are saying that every forward has to be a target man. Im not saying he is the best forward in the country either, Im not making any claims about him to be honest. Im just showing how a lot of criticism he gets, isn't actually accurate. The reality is if he was the exact same player and was a few yards quicker - but scored the same, people would say he was a better player.

Sorry Jimbo, I couldn't find the part where you explain how an average player like O'Connor, with 1 working arm no less, rattled off a hat trick and 4 points while brogan, Flynn and Connolly in a joint effort, couldn't match him...

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 12/02/2015 15:37:50    1692954

12/02/2015 14:58:51
fabio8
County: USA
Posts: 1344

1692925 think hes excellent finisher master but he cant win his own ball and doesnt do enough from play..that would be my issue with him and why i dont think hes a top forward...good free taker and very good finisher..to be a top forward you should be cleaning whoever you are marking or a major threat the majority of the time...o connor is part of a poor mayo forward line in my own opinion.

He cleaned out Shane Enright who committed 3 yellow offences on him. If the collison with Aidan O'Shea hadnt occured Mayo would of won easily in the Gaelic Grounds.

Btyan Sheehan is a good example of a great freetaker who contributes little from play

HughHunt24 (Cork) - Posts: 841 - 12/02/2015 16:20:11    1692981