I find it bizarre to see people saying that Jamie Clarke is as good and in some cases better then coc. Sure Clarke is a good forward but he has not proven himself comparable to some of the top class footballers mentioned here, i would suggest that if Clarke was from another club in Armagh then cross no one would be on here saying he is better then coc. It is true that there are a number of players who if the were with a better county the would have more championships games and more chance to shine for example Sweeney with tipp and Mulligan with Leitrim but Armagh played more championship games then any other county last season Clarke averaged less then 3 points per game, when it came to the business end of the championship he only scored a point against Meath and nothing against Donegal. Coc is 3 years younger then Clarke and in his first championship season he virtually single handily won the Connacht final for them and has lead them ever since. Only three players scored more from play last season in the chamionship

ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 10/02/2015 19:51:34    1692251

being a Cross man has raised Clarkes prfoile but he is a good forward no doubt. I think o connor is better and with McGeeney saying hell be deploying Clarke in defensive positions I dont see Clarke being a marquee forward this year.

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 10/02/2015 20:44:51    1692271

Cillian O'Connor Championship Games Played : 21 Scored 12-95(131) Average Point per Game : 6.24
Jamie Clarke Championship Games Played : 22 Scored 11-51 (84) Average Point per Game : 3.65

Gael85 (Dublin) - Posts: 1433 - 11/02/2015 09:12:25    1692326

I know the rules pretty well, think this is what I meant, this means that the Goal was a good goal.

Under the new rule, a player may enter the square before the ball in open play. The old rule will still apply for set play.

it doesn't take away from the bad display from the official and that he could have give more black cards.

youngfella27 (Armagh) - Posts: 110 - 11/02/2015 09:30:52    1692334

Interesting point re Clarke and cross Ros1. I was surprised that he only managed 3 points a game last year on that run through the qualifiers. When you consider the exploits of someone like Emlyn Mulligan in Leitrim, it makes you wonder.

youngfella, O'Connor was in the square before Doherty kicked the ball off the post. Doherty himself was outside the square when he kicked it. That is a square ball.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 11/02/2015 09:58:29    1692345

Regarding those stats for clarke v o'connor, take away the frees and a whole different picture is painted.

geoff (Tyrone) - Posts: 377 - 11/02/2015 10:13:42    1692355

He is only as good as his next game..Lets wait and see.

Top_Synopsis (Mayo) - Posts: 98 - 11/02/2015 10:33:06    1692362

youngfella-you clearly don't know the rules pretty well.

I've been very disappointed with Clarke in the championship games I've seen in the last 2 years, thought he was very inconsistent with his shooting.

TheWestIsAwake (UK) - Posts: 529 - 11/02/2015 10:38:51    1692363

11/02/2015 10:13:42
geoff
County: Tyrone
Posts: 300

1692355 Regarding those stats for clarke v o'connor, take away the frees and a whole different picture is painted.

Yes they are 2 different type of players but placed balls shouldnt be dismissed. Any good team needs a good freetaker and O'Connor is consistent from frees but can score goals 12 goals in 21 games is a good record. Bernard Brogan has 14 goals in 39 championship games. Gouch has 20 goals in 76 games.

Gael85 (Dublin) - Posts: 1433 - 11/02/2015 10:43:17    1692368

I thought Cillian O'Connor was brilliant last year. People keep going on about Mayo not having a top class forward but it is not his fault they let in goals in big games. Ok he is not pacy and doesn't get involved in the build up play but he has some scoring record - from frees and play. Definitely in the top 5 forwards in the country at the moment and it won't be his fault if Mayo don't win Sam soon.

JimTheLegend (Donegal) - Posts: 247 - 11/02/2015 13:24:11    1692451

I might be totally wrong but, I dont get the hype about Cillian O'Connor. He never seems to contribute much from play and I'd nearly wager 75% of his scores are from placed balls.

He is a dependable free taker I think and lacks the burst of pace to really be a top forward. I see people mentioning him as a possible great but I dont agree. If I was offered a choice between Cillian O'Connor and Colm O'Neill I would take O'Neill every time. O'Neill just seems more of a game breaker.

As for those saying he is only 22 etc. Cooper was only 19 in his first final and 21 when he won the All Ireland in 04 where he was unplayable. I have yet to see a big championship game in Croke Park where O'Connor has been unmarkable.

In the 2012 final he kicked 5 frees and nothing from play. In the 2013 final he kicked 8 frees nothing from play. In the 2012 Semi against dublin he only kicked 1 from play. In the 2013 Semi he kicked 3 frees only.

I think he kicked 1-3 from play over the two games against Kerry this year. Hardly the stats of a top marks man. Last year O'Connor only scored 1-12 from play.

Considering mayo played new york thats a poor enough return. He played 6 games so on average he kicked 2.5 points from play last year. Not exactly prolific.

aido_d2015 (Kerry) - Posts: 1 - 11/02/2015 13:39:29    1692462

What makes me so certain that o connor will become one of the greats is his attitude. He's like the frank Lampard of the GAA. Practices longer and harder than the vast majority of intercounty players, and has a phenomenal attitude and appetite to keep improving. Some guys have a great season or two early in the careers, then rest on their laurels and never improve. O connor is the opposite. Within club circles in mayo, its widely known that he has put so much work into freetaking with his left foot that they expect him to be kicking them off left and right for mayo in the next year or two.

Mayostar (Mayo) - Posts: 40 - 11/02/2015 13:43:32    1692467

The master, Paraic Joyce record shows that he is/ was a better player than O connor. 2 All Ireland Medals alone but won before age 24 says a lot.. His perforamnce alone in the final of 01 shows that.. And Joyce never had discipline issues unlike O Connor.. If Joyce in his prime had come on at that stage O Connor did last Sun Mayo would have won the game. O Connor kicked bad wides at a crucial stage!! No comparison...

Belclare1 (Galway) - Posts: 1626 - 11/02/2015 13:46:58    1692469

As for those saying he is only 22 etc. Cooper was only 19 in his first final and 21 when he won the All Ireland in 04 where he was unplayable. I have yet to see a big championship game in Croke Park where O'Connor has been unmarkable.

So he has to be as good as the gooch to get any recognition. If that is the case then he is in company with every other forward in the country.


Belclare1
The master, Paraic Joyce record shows that he is/ was a better player than O connor. 2 All Ireland Medals alone but won before age 24 says a lot.. His perforamnce alone in the final of 01 shows that.. And Joyce never had discipline issues unlike O Connor.. If Joyce in his prime had come on at that stage O Connor did last Sun Mayo would have won the game. O Connor kicked bad wides at a crucial stage!! No comparison...

A fair bit wrong with this, for instance, unless joyce took the field on his own and won the AI, then your first point isn't relevant. Secondly, O'Connor has no discipline issues and only a fool would think he does. Getting sent off against Kerry last year considering what had gone on and what was going on at the time, you would have to be a saint not to be annoyed and the game was over. Anyone with a bit of cop on can see that his temperament is actually exceptional. Thirdly, O'Connor isnt in his prime yet, bring on joyce at 22 and see how he does. Fourthly, joyce in his prime wouldn't have made a difference against a blanket defence, one man cant beat a blanket defence, that is the whole point. Fifthly, so joyce never kicked 2 wides in February in the league?

But that wasn't even what I was referring to. Joyce is long gone. You saying joyce is like me saying tom langan; the greatest ff of all time. And he wouldn't have made a difference either by the way.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 11/02/2015 14:43:36    1692496

Ah cop on, Tom Langan, now he is long gone!! Your waffling man... Look you have to go back to 1951 i go back to 1998 and 2001.. Joyce 10 points in an All Ireland final winning team.. i rest my case. And i assure you O connor has discipline issues and will see red again before the year is out... The great players no matter what events transpire against them would not be red carded in All Ireland semi finals!!

Belclare1 (Galway) - Posts: 1626 - 11/02/2015 18:01:05    1692605

single handedly won the connaught final?..he scored a few fairly simple frees..he plays in a much better all round side than clarke does..o connor is nothing special from play and would only be known as a good free taker and solid finisher if he were from a smaller county..he would barely be noticed..if you cant win your own ball at the top level then you are nothing special

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 11/02/2015 19:46:14    1692633

hes part of a mayo side widely regarded to be lacking a class forward..that says it all

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 11/02/2015 19:46:57    1692634

Jack Smith of DCU and All Ireland U-21 winner with Dublin made light work of O'Connor...

Who's Jack Smith you say... Exactly

Isn't it a fact that C'OC has played in 2 All Ireland Finals and is yet to score a point from play?

Sorry but he's a long way from being great

The greats shine on the big stage...

Give him a tap in or a tap over free and he's lethal alright...

But again... 2 All Ireland Finals and zippo from play and then goes about blaming refs for his own failures

Nah... Nowhere near great. It's very easy to stand out in that Mayo forward unit considering their lack of talent in that area

He'd be a panel player for Dublin... Not a guaranteed starter... that's for sure

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 11/02/2015 20:18:12    1692643

as much as we disagree jimbo i would have to agree with you there..might start as a useful free taker but would certainly be well down the list in terms of overall ability compared to the rest

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 11/02/2015 20:25:23    1692646

Jimbo baits the hook :D

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8592 - 11/02/2015 20:34:54    1692652