19/01/2015 17:47:24 Hardtimes
Ormond, I've no interest in discussing rugby to be honest, there's another forum for that. My comments weren't intended to spark debate, quite the opposite in fact - wish people would stop dragging rugby into it to suit their arguments. Two different sports. I think you know what I mean by them anyway - rugby revenues in this country would be slashed without the European/UK game. And I'm not going to get dragged into a debate about the internationals. Club rugby is not built around the international game.
There are many things we can learn from rugby but we can't mirror it. International Rugby funds the overwhelming majority of professional rugby worldwide. Only in France/England are the professional sides not ran by the unions of that country.
I

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 19/01/2015 20:35:26    1684646

the fixtures is a major problem in football at the minute. Although a new format would be a good help, there are quick fixes that could be put in place until an efficient fixture plan that caters for everyone the club player and county players is drawn up. For instance in Ulster the 4 Q/fs are played over 4 different weekend. Why not play them all on the same weekend and then the two semis two weeks later and the final two weeks after. I also think only have replays for the semi finals and finals would free up time.

This is the fixture plan I would implement
Scrap pre season competitions and league.
Play all the Provincial Championship Preliminary Rounds the 1st week in March
The Q/Fs the 3rd week of March-2 double header
The S/Fs the 1st week of April- Double Header
The Final the 3rd week of April- two finals on saturday and two on sunday.

Play AI as champions league format
First Group Game 3rd week of May
Second 4th week of May
Third 1st week of June
Last 16 2nd week of June
Q/F 4th week of June
S/F 2nd week of August
Final 4th week of August

This format gives a month between provincial and AI for 2 or 3 rounds of club championship and then frees up September for clubs only.
Also the timing of the busiest period of county fixtures (group stage) could be coincided with the close season. (I dont know how many countys have close seasons but in Monaghan there is one in June for 2/3 weeks)

pooper_trooper (Monaghan) - Posts: 108 - 20/01/2015 11:44:17    1684723

A & B championship needed, with promotion possibilities, properly promoted.

Gap is now too big between the strong and weak, time for the Gaa to wake up.

sponger (Wicklow) - Posts: 2897 - 20/01/2015 13:17:01    1684767

There is no need for an A and B championship imo. Kerry, Dublin, Mayo, Cork and Tyrone will always be there or there abouts, but for the rest of the teams their success goes in cycles for example ten years ago Armagh were one of the favourites for the AI now there in div 3. Donegal got beat by Antrim a couple of years before they won the AI. Cavan a few years back were one of the worst teams in the country now they will be contenders for Ulster, it swings in roundabouts success does.

I would also question the motivation of players to play in a B championship. I would imagine most players would want to play in the real mccoy.

The Tommy Murphy didnt work years ago what makes you think it will work now?

pooper_trooper (Monaghan) - Posts: 108 - 20/01/2015 13:37:11    1684776

pooper_trooper

Your plan would have only 1 intercounty match before June for 16 counties and only guarantees 4 matches in total for weaker counties. They wouldn't get lads to train for that.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1126 - 20/01/2015 13:59:08    1684788

The simplest solution is to go back to a straight knockout and emphasize that the leagues are competitions that are worth winning.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 20/01/2015 14:56:39    1684820

What do people think of running the league during the summer (May-Aug) with championship games scheduled in between. Would only work if all provinces were balanced i.e. 8 in each, and championship run on a knock out basis. Scrap early season IC competitions and U21 (replace this and minor with U19 or U20 grade, whatever). Jan - Mid March for inter-varsity/colleges/schools competitions. Club activity only from Feb - April, Sept - Nov, club leagues to run throughout Feb - Nov. Hurling would run on the same calender.

moylagh (Meath) - Posts: 484 - 20/01/2015 16:16:52    1684856

20/01/2015 11:44:17 pooper_trooper
the fixtures is a major problem in football at the minute. Although a new format would be a good help, there are quick fixes that could be put in place until an efficient fixture plan that caters for everyone the club player and county players is drawn up. For instance in Ulster the 4 Q/fs are played over 4 different weekend. Why not play them all on the same weekend and then the two semis two weeks later and the final two weeks after. I also think only have replays for the semi finals and finals would free up time.
This is the fixture plan I would implement
Scrap pre season competitions and league.
Play all the Provincial Championship Preliminary Rounds the 1st week in March, The Q/Fs the 3rd week of March-2 double header, The S/Fs the 1st week of April- Double Header
The Final the 3rd week of April- two finals on saturday and two on sunday.
Play AI as champions league format. First Group Game 3rd week of May, Second 4th week of May, Third 1st week of June, Last 16 2nd week of June, Q/F 4th week of June, S/F 2nd week of August,Final 4th week of August
This format gives a month between provincial and AI for 2 or 3 rounds of club championship and then frees up September for clubs only. Also the timing of the busiest period of county fixtures (group stage) could be coincided with the close season. (I dont know how many countys have close seasons but in Monaghan there is one in June for 2/3 weeks) Wouldn't playing games all on same weekend affect tv and media coverage? Scrapping pre season competitons and the league means much less exposure for the GAA as the main sides have much less games is that needed?
20/01/2015 14:56:39 bennybunny
The simplest solution is to go back to a straight knockout and emphasize that the leagues are competitions that are worth winning.How would you emphasize the league is worth winning? Changing back to straight knockout plays into hands of marketing other sports....
20/01/2015 16:16:52 moylagh
What do people think of running the league during the summer (May-Aug) with championship games scheduled in between. Would only work if all provinces were balanced i.e. 8 in each, and championship run on a knock out basis. Scrap early season IC competitions and U21 (replace this and minor with U19 or U20 grade, whatever). Jan - Mid March for inter-varsity/colleges/schools competitions. Club activity only from Feb - April, Sept - Nov, club leagues to run throughout Feb - Nov. Hurling would run on the same calender. How long of an off season would you have? Should there not be a clearly defined period where little to no games are played as to help player burnout, give everyone a chance to rest/recover?

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 20/01/2015 17:51:07    1684900

Hardtimes, were at risk of repeating ourselves her so for the last time, if team were playing once a week, managers would have no choice but to scale back the training sessions, something I think players would like.
You are dead right, training bans are ignored, but thats because managers want every advantage possible, but if their players were out every week, they couldnt possibly have the same number of training sessions, as players wouldnt be able to cope, and this would damage the teams chances.
Lots of training sessions at the moment are an advantage, thats why managers flog their players, lots of training sessions under my proposed system would be a huge disadvantage, what with all the games, thats why managers would scale back the training.

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 20/01/2015 19:27:15    1684944

Pooper_Trooper , the purpose of it is to ensure all teams get a few championship games and I called it the Tommy Murphy cup for argument sake . The old TM cup was just for the lower divisions . This is open to all and ensures to win Sam you must remain unbeaten in the Championship . You could dangle a carrot to win it e.g the TM cup winners play the Sam winners in an exhibition match abroad end of season all expenses paid . Or next year they play NY in preliminary round of their provincial championship all expenses paid .
Moylagh , you cannot hog all the good weather for IC competitions . Clubs deserve and expect more .
Ormond , if you went with my idea you could run the championship off in 11 weeks . All provincial stage matches played on same weekend . 1st round , 2 week break , prov semi then 3 week break , prov final then 3 week break , all Ireland semi then 3 week break to AI final . For the breaks inbetween run TM Cup matches and replays of Championship proper . You would then have a full 11 week calendar of televised matches .

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 20/01/2015 19:41:27    1684953

I know what you're saying Joncarter but do you not think you're increasing the chances of players getting serious injury . Big counties can rotate but the smaller ones will more than likely play their go to men even if they're carrying knocks . That is workload in itself . And lads on the fringes not getting playing time will need to keep up fitness levels . I think it's too intense what you propose . And you cannot halt club action for that long in the good weather . You will seriously P!$$ off club players , more so than they are already .

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 20/01/2015 19:49:10    1684957

The clubs could do their business from June til November (weather still playable in them months), and maybe have a feb til end of may inter county season.
A 9 month long inter county season disrupts the club calender awfully as it is, it has even reached a stage where clubs go the entire summer without playing any games.
The needs of the club players would be a priority for me (after all they are the lifeblood), thats why a shorter intercounty season is a must for me.
The 4 month long season would be intense for our players but i still think that if training/recovery sessions are manged properly it can be done.
Lets say players train 6 times a week now as a lot of them seem to do.. Is that any better than training twice a week and playing a game? There wouldnt be much difference in that.

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 20/01/2015 19:59:08    1684960

should be changed our players will retire before they hit there peak at 26/27

kildalkey4 (Meath) - Posts: 12 - 20/01/2015 20:22:57    1684969

Peak time for Intercounty is when the soccer and and rugby seasons are closed (i.e. June, July and August) but half county teams are out of the championship by early July. How are weaker counties supposed to promote the game if they never play in August and only play in July once every 10 years? Also football shouldn't clash with hurling so each championship gets the spot light separately and players can play both codes if they want.

Bottom Line is championship needs to have as many close games as possible and needs to keep counties playing into August while also providing a completion in Spring to develop a team or decide the championship draw (my preference would be the latter). So without going into the various types of format the season needs to have a definite structure and the format should suit it.


January - Fitness Training and challenge matches/mikey mouse tournaments (no U21's playing senior and no county players over 21 playing colleges)
February - National football league/round robin provincial championship
March - Hurling League - football U21 championship
April - Finish of National football league/provincial championship - Hurling U21 championship
May - Hurling League - football U21 championship
June - Football Championship group stages/provincial championship - Hurling U21 championship
July - All Ireland Hurling Championship/Christy ring etc
August - Provincial finals and qualifiers/football championship quarter finals - club county finals
September - All Ireland semis and finals (football and hurling)
October - Provincial club football and higher education leagues/hastings cup (players playing for one team ineligible for the other)
November - All Ireland series for clubs and Colleges championship/hastings cup
December - offseason

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1126 - 21/01/2015 09:27:10    1685046

I like the current format. It delivers the top teams to the qfs, semis, and final almost every year. The one issue is that logically there should be 8 teams at least in each of the four provincial championships, with an even sprinkling of teams in each 'province' from all four NFL divisions, based perhaps on the prior year's final NFL standings. It'll never happen, but would be good if it did, and also bad perhaps, but certainly fairer.

Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 3456 - 21/01/2015 16:49:52    1685226

That might work alright Joncarter if they started early and finished early with only a few weeks pre season training .

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 21/01/2015 19:03:12    1685272

McGlinchey: 'B' championship is worth considering
22 January 2015

I'll second that, - a 'B' championship, with no back door.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2908 - 22/01/2015 09:59:20    1685367

To achieve various goals all at once:

1) Symmetry and TMC part of 'Run for Sam' - 16-team prov SFs (after initial QF & Prelim Rds) and 16-team TMC (current Qual Rd 1).

2) Two-chances for all - Prov 16 (losers of 8, 4 and 2 to Qual Rds 2, 3 and 4) and TMC 16 (initial losers of 8 to Qual Rd 2)

3) Earning an AI QF spot - Any team qualifies from either the Prov 16 or TMC 16 by registering 3 victories

4) TMC Cup Final - After 3 TMC rds, the last 2 play a 'TMC Final' prior to both entering the AI QFs.

3) '4 & Score' - After 8 losers in Rd 2 are the first eliminated, 4 Prov Champs and 20 teams in Qual Rd 3/TMC continue to pursue 'Sam'

4) Prov Champ Reward - 2 losers in 'Prov Champs Rd' go to 12-team Rd 4/TMC; and 2 winners get byes to AI QFs

5) Something for everyone - a) Provs retained; b) TMC linked to AI Championship; c) Initial 16-TMC-teams get 3 chances to offset prov imbalance.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2615 - 22/01/2015 21:37:56    1685680

Too complicated omharant.

I think that if there were to be a new all ireland format, it would be better to have an open draw of 32 counties. First name out of the hat gets home advantage. The second round pairings, home advantage to the team who played away in the previous game. If both home, then draw for home advantage. Or maybe have round 2 in a neutral venue, depending on who drew who.

Back door as per normal.

Quarter finals, semi finals and final after that.

Scrap the provincials, unless you want to have it before the all ireland.

Would mean that there is a good balance of football for everyone, teams wouldnt burn out and could throw up some really tasty fixtures in june and july as well as august and sept. Just a thought. I think that in the last 10 years, the all ireland only gets going in august, and this is a huge problem.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 23/01/2015 11:21:42    1685744

with the exception of five or six teams ( these include mayo, dublin cork and kerry and maybe galway) winning a provincal is seen as a big thing and a major achievement for some counties. so i think it is important to keep it in some form. to throw an idea out is running two competions side by side from may to sept


1 provinal as they are (4 teams)
2 all teams enter an open draw for 8 groups of 4. 8 winners play to bring down to 4 teams

all 8 (4 from each) in all ireland quarter finals if a team wins both auto in semi finals

madbull (Westmeath) - Posts: 195 - 23/01/2015 11:52:56    1685761