One thing I notice in sport is how hard it can be to make a breakthrough. Winning one all-ireland means they surpassed all Armagh teams that came before them. The unfortunate thing for Armagh is their win could have given Tyrone that last ounce of belief that they could win an All-Ireland. When Wexford won their last All-Ireland in 1996 I often thought that Offaly and Clare winning the previous two finals helped Wexford believe their team could win one. I am fairly sure some of the Wexford set up cited those wins after their success.

McNulty is being extremely hard on him and his team mates. I find it sad that he is living with this regret. He should be proud of what he achieved. There is will always be what might have happened, or could have happened. I am sure some of the Sligo team are haunted they didn't beat Armagh in the quarter final after beating Kildare and Tyrone. I'd say Ray Cosgrave still can see his last minute free drifting wide of the post. I suppose the point I am trying to make is at that level the margins are so tight, to be the 2nd best or 3rd team in a season means you are slightly behind the winner, the Mayo team of the last five years only know this too well or the Waterford hurling team of the 2000s.

McNulty is a winner and thats why he takes no cosolation in second place but I hope as time goes by he will look back at his playing days more fondly. Would he be half as good at his day job now if he had won several all-irelands without breaking sweat.

One this is for sure, that Armagh team will never be forgotten.

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 18/12/2014 08:43:17    1679239

A bit like the Derry side of the '90s, Armagh were one of the better 'one-off' all-ireland winners who, in another era, could well have gone on to win 2 or 3 titles. However, that isn't the same as saying that they should have won more. Armagh were unfortunate that their prime years (2002-2006) saw them in direct competition with great Kerry and Tyrone sides.

For me, the big difference in Tyrone/Kerry and Armagh was the ease with which the former two got their scores. Armagh, for all the talk of their 'great' forwards, never really seemed to be able to kill a side with an explosive 10-15 minute scoring burst. Perhaps this was because their forwards weren't quite as dynamic as Tyrone/Kerry and relied more on dominating possession and wearing opponents down, or perhaps it was because they lacked any scoring threat outside their front 6 (Tyrone had Sean Cavanagh weighing in with regular scores and Kerry had the likes of Tomas O'Se from defence).

Armagh were a brilliant side though not, in my book, an all-time great team. Perhaps they had the talent to have added another title at some stage but, at the end of the day, they won what they won.

Thomas Clarke (Tyrone) - Posts: 1002 - 18/12/2014 09:36:35    1679243

1999- I think that Armagh were a wee bit green going into that Semi Final maybe a year to shy for it, they were a better team just couldn't close out the game and the same in 2000 they should have beat Kerry but a few mistakes cost them.

I see there is a lot of Tyrone 1s giving there option and I see that they are saying that Armagh didn't deserve to win the all Ireland that they got, well I have to say that maybe on that day against Kerry they did get the rub of the green but all that year they were by far the best team in Ireland, Beating Tyrone fermanagh Donegal Sligo Dublin and Kerry now that says it for itself, 3 of the best teams at that time and they beat them.

In 2003 they got to an All Ireland Final and got beat on the last day which I have to say still hurts sour grapes or not, Marsden sent off and every time that Canavan got the ball they got a free or he fell over and got a free, some tryone supports say this as well, but saying that in 2008 tyrone where by far the best team in Ireland and did deserve to win sam.


2005 Armagh were very lucky to win Ulster it was a bit of a mad game in the second half tyrone were the better team over the 2 games, but in saying that, Armagh were the Best team in the semi final and should have won that match, Taking McGeeney off was the biggest mistake of joe Kernan's Career and will hunt him forever that's for sure.


2006 Armagh had Kerry were they wanted them in the Q?F and should have pushed on they stopped playing at half time and cost them Kerry won another all Ireland and Armagh a Finished team and that was more or less the end.


Overall - Armagh aren't failures that's for sure I have to thank that Armagh squad for some great days and to see them win an All Ireland was and still is the best day of my life, between 1999 - 2008 they won 7 Ulster's 1 all Ireland, 1 National League not bad, should have had more but still a proud Armagh man!!!!!!!

youngfella27 (Armagh) - Posts: 110 - 18/12/2014 09:50:34    1679249

Armagh, for all the talk of their 'great' forwards, never really seemed to be able to kill a side with an explosive 10-15 minute scoring burst. Perhaps this was because their forwards weren't quite as dynamic as Tyrone/Kerry and relied more on dominating possession and wearing opponents down, or perhaps it was because they lacked any scoring threat outside their front 6 (Tyrone had Sean Cavanagh weighing in with regular scores and Kerry had the likes of Tomas O'Se from defence).

youngfella27 (Armagh) - Posts: 110 - 18/12/2014 10:09:28    1679252

Thomas Clarke you said that Armagh's Forwards weren't as dynamic as the Tyrone/Kerry forwards, THEN You put Sean Cavanagh into it, Might have taken Peter Canavan and let it pass on but to be fair Oisin Mc Conville and Stevie Mc Donnell has got more scores and more Dynamic a scoring forward than Cavanagh and doesn't have to fall to get free kicks, Cavanagh was a good player but not in the same league as the big scoring Forwards like canavan, Mc Conville and even Mulligan.

youngfella27 (Armagh) - Posts: 110 - 18/12/2014 10:19:30    1679256

youngfella27

I am fairly sure that you misunderstood Thomas Clarke.

He clearly said that Kerry/Tyrone were able to get their scores from areas outside of their front 6 (e.g. Sean Cavanagh from midfield or Thomas O'Sea from Half Back). He did not say that these two men where dynamic forwards like McConville or McDonnell.

Wally (Tyrone) - Posts: 912 - 18/12/2014 11:20:07    1679272

youngfella27
County: Armagh
Posts: 12

1679256 Thomas Clarke you said that Armagh's Forwards weren't as dynamic as the Tyrone/Kerry forwards, THEN You put Sean Cavanagh into it, Might have taken Peter Canavan and let it pass on but to be fair Oisin Mc Conville and Stevie Mc Donnell has got more scores and more Dynamic a scoring forward than Cavanagh and doesn't have to fall to get free kicks, Cavanagh was a good player but not in the same league as the big scoring Forwards like canavan, Mc Conville and even Mulligan.
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You've missed the point entirely. Despite him being good enough to win FOTY at full-forward in 2008, Tyrone mainly played Cavanagh as a midfielder down the years. Cavanagh's ability to cause havoc from there and score heavily was, in my opinion, the single biggest difference in Tyrone and Armagh. Armagh were relying on 6 forwards for scores (5, if you iscount Paddy McKeever), whereas Tyrone had more firepower across the field. Armagh, fine team though they were, generally didn't blow teams away, meaning that they were always vulnerable to a late sucker punch (e.g. Fermanagh 2004).

Thomas Clarke (Tyrone) - Posts: 1002 - 18/12/2014 11:35:57    1679275

Ulster was tough and they ran out of steam when they hit Croker .

I think the Tyrone poster is correct : Armagh always had trouble completely finishing sides off . No doubt about it though , they were a fine side . Donegal had a very good side in the early 00s but were unfortunate that Tyrone and Armagh were present . Armagh beat us in 99, 02, 03, 04, 05, 06, 07. Three Ulster finals and an All-Ireland semis . I always felt they underachieved though !

TheRightStuff (Donegal) - Posts: 1688 - 18/12/2014 12:13:40    1679284

That Armagh team haunted Donegal no end. They were a great team and possibly should have won another All-Ireland or two. One thing is for certain is that they forced other counties in Ulster to up their game considerably with regard to conditioning and preparation. That in itself has left a lasting positive legacy.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9136 - 18/12/2014 12:45:43    1679288

The right stuff, we beat them in 07, only just though via Kevin Cassidy's late goal. But we did always struggle against them. We just were too naive for them.
Armagh may well have been good enough for another all ireland back then, but kerry and tyrone were both knocking around, and it would have meant taking one of their all irelands from them. If I were to pick one of the years that armagh played brilliant football and didnt win the all ireland, it would have been 2005. They lost the semi final that year in one of the best games I can remember. But they still would have had to beat kerry in the final! They fell asleep at the wheel in 2004. I think that they did underachieve in 2 seasons max, but they will be remembered as being a team to beat or aim at if you wanted to win the all ireland.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 18/12/2014 12:56:18    1679291

Down and Derry were great rivals in the 1990's, but Down with the more natural forwards won more. Tyrone and Armagh were also great rivals but Tyrone's forwards give them the edge. This was especially true when they played Kerry three times and won whereas Armagh played Kerry three times and won only once.

Byanthon (Tyrone) - Posts: 1780 - 18/12/2014 13:18:26    1679300

They were a very good team all over the pitch but yes by their own standards and capabilities they did underachieve. However their own tactics contributed to their demise at times. Armagh were far too over reliant on handpassing back and sideways and attempting to keep possession. They underused their brilliant forwards Oisin McConville, Stevie McDonnell, Ronan Clarke, Diarmuid Marsden etc and when they should have been getting quick ball into these fellas they would ar*e about throwing the ball between between their keeper, half backs and full backs; this definately cost them against Galway in the semi final. Time and again Galway turned over possession because of Armagh's insistence on slow, ponderous handpassing and Galway got scores because of this. At times I screamed at them to get fast, foot passes into the last third of the field where they were very effective and brilliant to watch. Some of the scores the fellas I mentioned would get were class to watch. However they were part of a very good era from the late 90's to the mid 00's and didn't get the praise they should have. Geography and politics I believe played a large part in that.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9702 - 18/12/2014 13:33:59    1679304

Ulsterman,

How exactly did Geography and Politics contribute to Armagh only winning one All Ireland???

Wally (Tyrone) - Posts: 912 - 18/12/2014 14:16:08    1679313

Youngfellow27 must be very young - probably playschool as he totally missed the point entirely about Sean Cavanagh and it took a wally to correct him. On the other hand maybe he just wanted to get a swipe at big Sean

2leftfeet (None) - Posts: 130 - 18/12/2014 14:24:40    1679317

They were lucky to win the All Ireland in 2002. Kerry left if behind them that day.
Better to have 1 than none at all.

pdempsey (Mayo) - Posts: 1313 - 18/12/2014 14:28:49    1679320

They were blessed to beat Dublin in 02 aswell the team that played the way better football lost that day.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 18/12/2014 17:18:10    1679353

Very good points her in 2002 they were very lucky to beat Dublin and Kerry, they probably had a better team from 2003-2005

cavan97 (Cavan) - Posts: 369 - 18/12/2014 17:39:46    1679361

In 2003 they got to an All Ireland Final and got beat on the last day which I have to say still hurts sour grapes or not, Marsden sent off and every time that Canavan got the ball they got a free or he fell over and got a free, some tryone supports say this as well, but saying that in 2008 tyrone where by far the best team in Ireland and did deserve to win sam.

My memory's sketchy but I'm not sure Canavan won any of the five frees from which he scored that day.

MichaelO (Tyrone) - Posts: 820 - 18/12/2014 18:03:44    1679365

Armagh had a great team them days. But so did tyrone. Think that 2003 final was a huge blow to Armagh and really kicks tarted tyrone...have to say though, Kieran mcgeeny was the biggest leader and influential player I have ever seen.

.tribute (Cavan) - Posts: 360 - 18/12/2014 20:36:34    1679401

2leftfeet- I don't have to take a swipe at any 1, I will leave that up to the likes of Joe Brolly to take a swipe at him for the way he falls over very handy, sean is a deadly footballer I would pick him for Armagh but if he would take that out of his game he then he would get more credit for his play.


I still don't believe that Tyrone were a better team around that time, 2008 Armagh were an aging team and that Tyrone had the youth which give them the edge, 2005 Armagh were the better team, I no they had to beat Kerry but at that time it was a fight out between Armagh and tyrone for who was the best in Ireland.

still to say they didn't deserve there only All Ireland is crazy they beat the best in Ireland at that time cant see how ppl can say they didn't Deserve it

youngfella27 (Armagh) - Posts: 110 - 19/12/2014 11:29:31    1679471