there is nowhere near the level of athleticism or reactions as soccer required though ormond...soccer is exceptionally competitive..its a fact thats it harder to make it to the top than in rugby...rugby is a minority sport when directly compared with soccer...so is cricket or basketball or any other minority sport for that matter...none of these people were mesamis or me..you are picking out isolated people...the physical attributes make it a somewhat easier sport to make it in also...case in point devin toner..where have i mesamis or any other fair reasonable person on the opposite side made anti rugby posts or slagged off bod?

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 02/12/2014 20:49:42    1676140

Fabio to get to the top in any sport requires serious ability and dedication. Numbers are not the arbiter of what is required. That is a simplistic assertion and exhibits a lack of appreciation of what constitutes sporting excellence. There are less basketball players than soccer players . Does that mean Michael Jordan was/is inferior to Messi or Ronaldo. There are less boxers in the world than soccer players . Did that make Muhammad Ali inferior to Pele ? Numbers doesn't dilute competition at the elite level in sport. There are less tennis players than soccer players. Does that make Federer inferior to Messi. Just because there are more soccer players than any other sport doesn't mean that soccer players are automatically the most accomplished sportsmen in the world. Like I said such an argument is simplistic and shows a singular lack of appreciation of what constitutes sporting excellence.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 02/12/2014 20:53:24    1676141

of course greengrass there is some truth to what you say but soccer is certainly the most difficult sport to be the very best in cause it is a true global sport and the level of competition in it is like no other....it is the largest sport in the majority of countries in the world....to be in the elite in it is like nothing else...individual sports are somewhat different but the point remains largely the same...the more competitive a sport is the tougher it is to make it to the very top

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 02/12/2014 21:00:51    1676143

nobody is disputing what bod did required serious skill drive and ability..people have taken this completely the wrong way....what mesamis was simply saying is its easy to slag off a soccer player for being average but when you compare soccer to a lot of sports being average at pro soccer is a lot more difficult then being good or 'world class' in a lot of sports....if a sport is only played by a minority of people in a few countries then of course it is going to be easier to make it to the top

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 02/12/2014 21:02:59    1676144

02/12/2014 20:45:36
fabio8
there you have it ormond..the demands on soccer players are simply greater...its all about context when you are comparing different sports...in soccer you are simply not allowed to pick and choose when to play In soccer coaches could easily but they don't. In rugby there is some players who play week in week out and play 35+ a year but to say the demands on soccer players is greater is ridiculous
02/12/2014 20:49:42 fabio8
there is nowhere near the level of athleticism or reactions as soccer required though ormond...soccer is exceptionally competitive..its a fact thats it harder to make it to the top than in rugby...rugby is a minority sport when directly compared with soccer...so is cricket or basketball or any other minority sport for that matter...none of these people were mesamis or me..you are picking out isolated people...the physical attributes make it a somewhat easier sport to make it in also...case in point devin toner..where have i mesamis or any other fair reasonable person on the opposite side made anti rugby posts or slagged off bod? How is there way less levels of athleticism In rugby?
Have you ever played the game?
02/12/2014 20:53:24 Greengrass
Fabio to get to the top in any sport requires serious ability and dedication. Numbers are not the arbiter of what is required. That is a simplistic assertion and exhibits a lack of appreciation of what constitutes sporting excellence. There are less basketball players than soccer players . Does that mean Michael Jordan was/is inferior to Messi or Ronaldo. There are less boxers in the world than soccer players . Did that make Muhammad Ali inferior to Pele ? Numbers doesn't dilute competition at the elite level in sport. There are less tennis players than soccer players. Does that make Federer inferior to Messi. Just because there are more soccer players than any other sport doesn't mean that soccer players are automatically the most accomplished sportsmen in the world. Like I said such an argument is simplistic and shows a singular lack of appreciation of what constitutes sporting excellence. You are arguing this much better than I am. Fair play Greengrass. Fabio he is right. Fair play greengrass

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 02/12/2014 21:04:13    1676146

The point is that to make it to the top in any sport requires the same characteristics . Numbers competing is not the ultimate arbiter of sporting excellence .

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 02/12/2014 21:10:58    1676147

Lads, lets be honest, GAA people give the soccer boys plenty of stick, so lets not be too sore when a bit comes back our way.
Of course Hunts point that GAA players, whose lives involve training and working, wouldnt be able to cope with a life that involves training and resting, and getting paid to do so, is preposterous, but leave him off.
The fact that he said may prove that the credit that GAA players get makes him a little bit jealous.

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 02/12/2014 21:13:37    1676149

it is a huge factor to consider though greengrass...if you play a lot more games of course it is going to be more demanding than being asked to play less games..yes i have played rugby..if you are a front 5 obviously you are going to be nowhere near as athletic as your average soccer player...greengrass is right in your opinion ormond as it suits your own viewpoint.....rugby is less difficult to make it to the top in than soccer is..that is simply a fact and stating the obvious...and all that was stated..nothing more..so no need for people to be getting all that upset

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 02/12/2014 21:24:30    1676159

i can understand some of the bitterness soccer players may have as they are often treated very poorly compared to rugby or gaa counterparts especially considering even qualifying considering how tough it is in soccer is a huge achievement...euro 2012 is a great recent example of this..we were hammered yet our soccer players were attacked and compared to the rugby team giving new zealand a tough test...of course ignoring any sort of context....we were shut out by the all blacks the next week on a side note so people went a bit quiet

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 02/12/2014 21:34:59    1676164

ormondbannerman
County: Clare
Posts: 8865

Yes it is more difficult and more competitive to get to the top in Gaelic Football in many ways than Hurling.

That in no way belittles hurlers and their magnificent achievements.

Same way that saying that it is less competitive to get to the top in Rugby than it is in soccer.

It is not an idiotic point, it is completely logical seeing as it so painfully obvious to everyone but you.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13710 - 02/12/2014 21:36:12    1676165

Fair play to Hunty. Midweek and he is still reeling em in

mike03 (Limerick) - Posts: 2000 - 02/12/2014 21:39:49    1676168

There are alot more footballers than hurlers around, but hurling, in my opinion anyway, is far more difficult to master.
I think modern gaelic football could be picked up quite easily, but rugby is the easiest of the three to get the hang of (and it is Ormo, before you disagree)

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 02/12/2014 21:40:48    1676170

Ormond

I say the above as a hurler as well.

I understand that hurling is, just like rugby, is a minority sport in Ireland when compared with Gaelic and Association Football.

I'm not as insecure about my sport as you are though and do not let it stop my enjoyment of playing and watching it, and crucially praising its players.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13710 - 02/12/2014 21:42:34    1676172

hurling isnt that difficult to master jon if you are from a hurling area though and brought up playing it..to an unfamilar eye of course its difficult to master as its somewhat unusual compared to other sports

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 02/12/2014 21:45:27    1676178

02/12/2014 21:24:30
fabio8
it is a huge factor to consider though greengrass...if you play a lot more games of course it is going to be more demanding than being asked to play less games..yes i have played rugby..if you are a front 5 obviously you are going to be nowhere near as athletic as your average soccer player...greengrass is right in your opinion ormond as it suits your own viewpoint.....rugby is less difficult to make it to the top in than soccer is..that is simply a fact and stating the obvious...and all that was stated..nothing more..so no need for people to be getting all that upset That isn't true though about front 5 players being nowhere near as athletic as your average soccer player. On what scales are they nowhere near as athletic? How would you define a soccer player being much more athletic?
Rugby isn't less difficult to make it to the top. You cant say one is more difficult than the other as there is so many different variables in both
02/12/2014 21:36:12 MesAmis
ormondbannerman
Yes it is more difficult and more competitive to get to the top in Gaelic Football in many ways than Hurling. That in no way belittles hurlers and their magnificent achievements. Same way that saying that it is less competitive to get to the top in Rugby than it is in soccer.
It is not an idiotic point, it is completely logical seeing as it so painfully obvious to everyone but you. Again with the arrogance. Cop on. It isn't logical. It is dismissing and belittling the achievements. Person x only makes it in sport y because so few play in comparison to sport z Is simple argument you can make with your idea and that is just ridiculous
It isn't more difficult to make it in gaelic than hurling. they are so different variables different

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 02/12/2014 21:45:57    1676179

of course soccer is a lot more difficult to make than rugby....look at john hayes who only picked up the sport late on and managed over 100 caps for ireland..its simply a fact..stop being so insecure over your own sport..of course a typical rugby front 5 lacks the athleticism of the majority of soccer players as they are required to have nowhere near the same amount of athleticism as a lot of it is physicality and size based therefore being a lot less athletic...why do i even have to explain this to you?..its basic common sense...

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 02/12/2014 21:56:53    1676183

ormondbannerman
County: Clare
Posts: 8866

Again with the arrogance. Cop on. It isn't logical. It is dismissing and belittling the achievements. Person x only makes it in sport y because so few play in comparison to sport z Is simple argument you can make with your idea and that is just ridiculous
It isn't more difficult to make it in gaelic than hurling. they are so different variables different

I have not belittled nor dismissed anyone. It is you that is projecting your own twist on to it. Whatever reason you are doing this for I do not know.

I have made a very simple point about the depth of talent in relative sports.

There is nothing belittling in saying that there is more depth of talent in soccer than in rugby, or more depth of talent in Gaelic Football than Hurling.

They are merely facts, that some how you have no ability to grasp for some reason.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13710 - 02/12/2014 21:57:28    1676184

In terms of natural talent in their sport comparing O'Driscoll and Hunt is more than silly. As Hunt's comments were about commitment levels and not natural ability his commitment could definitely, in some ways, compare to O'Driscoll. O'Driscoll has God-given talent, his Dad a former international. Now I've heard Matt Williams rave about what a perfectionist Brian O'Driscoll is, never happy unless he was honing his craft, learning new tricks of the trade to help him improve. Anyone on here pointing out the obvious that Hunt was an average player should keep their begrudging remarks for another forum. I'll bet there aren't many elite athletes amongst us who can afford to be looking down making mocking comments about a man who has played football for his country and played in one of the top leagues in the world.. The man knew he had limited ability, it speaks volumes for his character how hard he worked to even play professional football, never mind playing in the Premier Leaague and for Ireland. If you compare Hunt to any rugby player then Trevor Brennan might be a better comparison. Not coming from a rugby background, not possessing an outsanding talent for rugby he worked damn hard to play for Leinster, Toulouse and Ireland. Himself and Hunt seem a bit of craic too. They worked very hard to get where they got too but don't take life too seriously. Being blessed with a talent for a sport might make it easy to get to the top. O'Driscoll has it but even then he was/is so driven he always wanted to improve.. Hunt and Brennan were never the galacticos of their repective sports. But for many sports people with God-given talent, Paul Gascoigne just springs to mind, they thought talent alone would see them to the top. I think it's very admirable to see less-talented sportspeople who are so driven that they will make a professional career for themselves, despite not being as talented as others in that sport. Fair play to them.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7346 - 03/12/2014 09:00:01    1676195

Very well said RedandGreen. You have hit the nail on the head. That also supports Fabio's legitimate point about the denigration of our soccer players . Our soccer correspondents need to take a long, hard look at themselves . They are, quite frankly a disgrace .

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 03/12/2014 09:37:51    1676200

By no account would I be a fan of soccer or Hunt but the achievement to get to the level he has in a very very very competitive world, both mentally and physically should not be looked down upon.

His achievements, even if he is not a top Premier League player would, actually be, in context, better than an Irish Rugby players, even BOD, when you consider the numbers and the difference in competition.

Ormond before you sound off, even in the south-west of France more people play soccer, handball, basketball etc. even if the culture is rugby. I live here so I know this, everyone supports the rugby team, its pride of the village stuff, even if you play other sports.

Hunt is a bit of a fool in the way he presented his argument about Professional sports. His point was that to handle the off-time is harder than the training and you need to be mentally tough, and therefore it is not the most skill full that always succeed, and he is proof.

Why a GAA player cannot do this is beyond me, so his point is silly. His point should have been that not all the most skill Inter-County players may make the grade in Pros sports as the 'life style' outside the game is the hardest to manage.

witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 03/12/2014 09:58:30    1676206