Poor Ormy gets awful upset over how minor a sport in the world that rugby is. The poor lad should move to New Zealand where it is their first sport. If he goes anywhere else he will have to defend it all over again and will be no better off than he already is. I feel sorry for the poor lad

mike03 (Limerick) - Posts: 2000 - 02/12/2014 19:51:57    1676110

they didnt...they said in the context of soccer to rugby..its a perfectly reasonable argument..stop refusing to see the context....soccer is a much more difficult sport to make it anywhere close to the top than rugby is.....thats simply a fact...anybody with any sort of objectivity can acknowledge that..you on the other hand choose to denigrate soccer players...what mesamis wasnt a personal attack it was a fair and reasonable point....again nobody is disputing what o driscoill has done

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 02/12/2014 19:52:55    1676111

All this guy is good for is getting injured and sitting at home, I find it sort of cold that he says this about guys who work for a living, Sometimes drive dozens of kilometres to go to training and hardly get time to be with their families, all under a game that is not considered professional.

The_True_Blue (Galway) - Posts: 6 - 02/12/2014 19:54:36    1676112

a different kind of physical punishemnt greengrass...can you honestly tell me that paul o connell has to have anywhere near the same amount of athleticism or reaction speed as the average top soccer player does?..a great deal of rugby is structured...again stop dealing in hyperbole..they are different sports..you sound like somebody who has never played soccer if you dont realise how punishing it is on your legs

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 02/12/2014 19:56:14    1676113

paul o connell is largely not asked to play week in week out..how many games a year does he play greengrass compared to a top soccer player who often plays 3 times a week?

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 02/12/2014 19:57:08    1676114

Greengrass
County: Louth
Posts: 3378

1676101
MesAmis your argument about playing numbers can also be turned on it's head . There are 32 teams in the Champions League playing for 16 places . There were 24 teams in The Heineken Cup playing for 8 places . Nobody could argue that the competition for places in The Champions League was anywhere near as intense as it was in The Heineken Cup. In The Champions League you have more teams but many of them are very average and the gap between them and the elite teams is huge . The elite teams have the elite players that are at the pinnacle of their sport . The same is true of rugby . The elite eight or ten teams have the elite players . It takes no less talent to get to the pinnacle of rugby than it does in soccer . What the numbers in soccer does is provide more opportunity for players who operate below the elite level .

There are a lot more than 32 teams in the full Champions League. I'm not sure exactly to be honest.It has a much deeper pool of teams than the rugby competition. 50 odd countries' clubs are represented in the Champions League at some stage whereas how many countries' clubs are represented in the Rugby Cup? UK&Ireland, France and Italy?

Getting to the top in rugby is less competitive than soccer. There is no doubt about that.

Stating the above is not belittling to rugby in anyway and is not meant to be.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13710 - 02/12/2014 19:57:21    1676115

laughable statement and a clear denigration to soccer players as theres no objectivity in that post....it is near impossible to reach the top in soccer as the amount of competition involved...anybody can be the best no matter where they are from...look at george weah for instance...this simply doesnt happen in rugby as theres only a few teams involved at a high level

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 02/12/2014 20:07:13    1676118

it appears you have rattled something of a hornets nest here mesamis

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 02/12/2014 20:16:23    1676120

02/12/2014 17:56:44
MesAmis
Finally. My entire point is that no other sport can compare to soccer in terms how hard it is to make it.
The rest are in the minority in most countries, rugby included.
All I've said is that rugby is a minority sport in all the countries that you mentioned. By minority sport I mean that rugby is not the number one sport in those countries. You've accused me of been ignorant about rugby because I have said that it is not the largest sport in all the countries you mentioned. I'm right it isn't, rugby is in the minority in those nations. You know it as well as I do so I've no idea why you're trying to argue otherwise.So by your idiotic logic no top hurler can be compared to a top gaelic footballer as hurling is a minority sport in Ireland and the top gaelic players for them to make It its so much harder than hurlers. You have been very ignorant
Just because a sport isn't the biggest doesn't make it a minority sport.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 02/12/2014 20:18:21    1676121

02/12/2014 19:35:09 fabio8
rugby is a minority sport in these countries..how is that ignorant?..soccer is much bigger in france than rugby is..sure rugby is more popular than it is in other areas but it is still way behind soccer...i suggest you go to marseille some day and think about it.....what mesamis has said is perfectly fair and reasonable...soccer by sheer numbers of players and everything else is incredibly tough to make it...context is everything...people need to stop getting upset and just look at what mesamis is saying as its perfectly reasonable what hes saying...nobody is disputing what o driscoill has achieved How is rugby way behind Soccer?
Have you ever been to the south of france? Rugby is totally dominant. That isn't simply parts of the country
But if you look at the thread there is several trolling rugby and me

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 02/12/2014 20:23:25    1676124

rugby is a minority sport..by the very definition of being a minority..it is not the most popular sport in any of these countries..what part of minority do you not understand ormond?...its quite similar to an ethnic minority..they are not the most dominant group therefore being referred to as a minority..lose the bias..nobody is slagging off rugby here just making a simple comparison using the correct context...obviously o driscoill is much better in his own sport than hunt is but soccer is a much harder sport to make it to the top in

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 02/12/2014 20:24:00    1676125

02/12/2014 19:37:51
MesAmis
I never said that O'Driscoll's rise took less dedication but just that he had to reach the top of a much shallower pool than his soccer counterparts.With your crazy logic no hurler can ever match a gaelic footballer because the pool they had to get through to reach the top is smaller. Its an illogical argument

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 02/12/2014 20:26:10    1676126

02/12/2014 19:42:21
Greengrass
MesAmis your argument about playing numbers can also be turned on it's head. There are 32 teams in the Champions League playing for 16 places. There were 24 teams in The Heineken Cup playing for 8 places. Nobody could argue that the competition for places in The Champions League was anywhere near as intense as it was in The Heineken Cup. In The Champions League you have more teams but many of them are very average and the gap between them and the elite teams is huge. The elite teams have the elite players that are at the pinnacle of their sport. The same is true of rugby. The elite eight or ten teams have the elite players. It takes no less talent to get to the pinnacle of rugby than it does in soccer. What the numbers in soccer does is provide more opportunity for players who operate below the elite level. good point

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 02/12/2014 20:27:40    1676127

02/12/2014 19:45:23
Greengrass
Fabio they have denigrated O Driscoll. They said Stephen Hunts achievements compared to O Driscoll's. They don't. 1 guy made it to the pro game, plays internationally etc but is an average player. The other made it to the pro game, played internationally and made it to the top of his sport. Hunt doesn't come near O Driscoll

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 02/12/2014 20:29:36    1676129

02/12/2014 19:49:04
Greengrass
Nonsense fabio . You are seriously trying to tell me that there is the same level of physical attrition in soccer as there is in rugby ? John Terry goes through the same level of physical punishment week on week out that Paul O Connell does ? Yeah right !!!' Wise up . +1
02/12/2014 19:51:57 mike03
Poor Ormy gets awful upset over how minor a sport in the world that rugby is. The poor lad should move to New Zealand where it is their first sport. If he goes anywhere else he will have to defend it all over again and will be no better off than he already is. I feel sorry for the poor lad Off to bed now. troll elsewhere. You know little of rugby if that's what you think.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 02/12/2014 20:31:16    1676130

how isnt rugby a minority sport in france?...the south of france has numerous big soccer sides look at marseille..they are the biggest or 2nd biggest club in france....much bigger than any rugby team in the whole country and much larger support base....are you trying to claim rugby is bigger than soccer in france honestly?...its an ignorant comment to make and a bit hypocritical considering the accusations you are making...mesamis made a quite simple and reasonable point all within a certain context which he is now being attacked for as it concerned a popular figure...be objective as its no point having a debate with you otherwise

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 02/12/2014 20:35:25    1676133

Greengrass,
In last years heineken cup, 2 teams from Italy, ranked Europes 6th best nation, finished bottom of their groups with 0 points. The worst 2 teams in this years champions league, Apoel and Galatasary, both have 1 point each, and hail from the 12th and 18th ranked nations in European soccer. The equivalent would be rugby clubs from Germany and Czech Rep. playing in the heineken cup. On this basis, do you still think the Heineken Cup is more competitive?

Brendtheredhand,
You make a good point, a soccer player should't be considered a rolemodel on the basis that they're a soccer player. However, neither should it be said that because they are a pro soccer player that they can't be a good rolemodel, which is the point Im making. I still think Joe Brollys comments were unfair in that regard.

extranjero (Wexford) - Posts: 375 - 02/12/2014 20:36:27    1676134

02/12/2014 19:52:55 fabio8
they didnt...they said in the context of soccer to rugby..its a perfectly reasonable argument..stop refusing to see the context....soccer is a much more difficult sport to make it anywhere close to the top than rugby is.....thats simply a fact...anybody with any sort of objectivity can acknowledge that..you on the other hand choose to denigrate soccer players...what mesamis wasnt a personal attack it was a fair and reasonable point....again nobody is disputing what o driscoill has done Weight of numbers doesn't make a sport harder to make it to the top alone. If you read the thread there is people who are completely ridiculous anti rugby posts and implying crap about O'Dr...
The physical attributes required for some positions make it such a difficult sport to make it in.
02/12/2014 19:56:14 fabio8
a different kind of physical punishemnt greengrass...can you honestly tell me that paul o connell has to have anywhere near the same amount of athleticism or reaction speed as the average top soccer player does?..a great deal of rugby is structured...again stop dealing in hyperbole..they are different sports..you sound like somebody who has never played soccer if you dont realise how punishing it is on your legs Reaction speed. Look at his ability to jump in a lineout/contest opposition ball. That is all about reaction speed. You have to react to the ball being thrown by the opposition, get in front of your opposition jumper, etc etc.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 02/12/2014 20:37:25    1676135

02/12/2014 19:57:08 fabio8
paul o connell is largely not asked to play week in week out..how many games a year does he play greengrass compared to a top soccer player who often plays 3 times a week? o Connell doesn't as his playing time is managed to prolong his career. He could play week in week out if he had to. The IRFU just choose not to let the top guys do it for an entire season

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 02/12/2014 20:39:05    1676136

there you have it ormond..the demands on soccer players are simply greater...its all about context when you are comparing different sports...in soccer you are simply not allowed to pick and choose when to play

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 02/12/2014 20:45:36    1676138