essmac,

I agree with much of what you say. However, the game of 2 halves you propose is pointless & would never happen except in some sort of charity event.

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 05/12/2014 16:12:19    1676930

Mes…I didn't say you belittled rugby?

For me also, the sports cannot be compared. I think everyone agrees on that. I just think you are off the mark when you claim Hunt 'eclipsed' BOD.
Yes there are many more soccer players….and as I said there are many more clubs for them to represent too.

I am simply saying Hunt is a good footballer. BOD was a superstar rugby player. Shallow pools et cetera are all relative, I gave you a comprehensive list of superstar footballers we had too. Players who achieved in their careers much more than Hunt did or will (i.e., played for top clubs, played European football and stood out consistently at international level and were both revered and feared in equal measure by their opposition). There are 92 professional teams for England alone . So, sure, Hunt made it as in he was solid enough player who played very well in the championship where he has spent the majority of his playing career and he never played at a top club (because he is just not good enough). Professional rugby has a sum total of 36 professional teams for Ireland, Scotland, Wales, England and Italy so what does that say about opportunities for the professional rugby player? If you want to start (and nobody ever should!!) maybe compare O'Driscoll with Roy Keane or compare Hunt with some like Keith Earls i.e., good but not a superstar.

Do you think the average Brazilian football fan could pick Hunt out of a line up? For that matter the average German probably couldn't….maybe even a fair few English too. I would be surprised if there were many rugby fans (in any of the countries who take it 'seriously') that would not immediately recognise BOD…..and he is retired!

FYI - the country with the largest amount of soccer players is China, then USA, then India and then Germany (according to FIFA webpage anyway). The amount playing a sport doesn't seem to necessarily lend itself to how successful it maybe in said location. So I am not sure how that figures in to the competitive arena…. A poster earlier made a good point that you could twist and turn this debate either way by picking out random bits of trivia. Herein lies the problem, there is NO definitive answer comparing one sport to another. It's akin to comparing apples and oranges.

One thing is very clear, when it comes to PR and being able to get a message across to Joe Public, Hunt is a million miles behind BOD…… Hunt should engage his brain before opening his trap in future. He was all sorts of wrong with his comments.

P.S., apologies to any Keith Earls/Munster fans, just using him as a yardstick for player of a less calibre than BOD. Oh and again, You're welcome.

seanfinn (Monaghan) - Posts: 360 - 05/12/2014 19:14:26    1676975

what did brolly mean when he said Hunt wouldn't last 5 minutes in an ulster final. Of course he wouldn't. He is a soccer player. He wouldn't be used to it at all. roger Federer wouldn't last 5 minutes either and he is probably fitter than anyone. It is a fruitless excersise comparing sports-people of different codes. Each code requires different levels of fitness and different attributes so what makes a top Tennis player (I dare not mention rugby or it will trigger an alert or Ormondbannerman's phone).
I suppose the one man who did play both concurrently at the very top level was Kevin Moran but levels of fitness have improved alot since then in both sports. Lots of youngsters play both soccer and GAA at the moment and there is probably not much difference in the levels of fitness required if you are with a decent team. I don't think we should approach Stephen Hunt's remark by immediatly being offended and denigrating him. He is playing at a very high level for a good few years and has played at the highest level.
However I don't really understand the point he is making. Is he saying that "most" GAA players wouldn't make it at the highest level in England well I would say that is true but then again most soccer players in Ireland wouldn't make it at the highest level in England and they actually play the sport in question. But if some GAA player had the required skills then of course they would make it if they had the dedication , the same as a soccer player. I really don't get the whole gist of the remark. If he is saying that soccer players in the top divisions in England are fitter than the top GAA players well perhaps they are, but then that is how it should be, they are professionals after all. I'm sure the top players in England are also fitter than the top soccer players in the League of Ireland. But are the top soccer players in the League of Ireland fitter than the top GAA players. I don't know. Anyway is it all about fitness or is he saying that we couldn't handle the strict regime of training,rest,training,games,rest etc etc . well that's a different matter, That is a slight on the character of most Irish people of which he himself is one. In essense he would be saying "look at me, I am an exception to most Irish people, They could not do what I have done".
this needs further analysis. We need to know how exactly Stephen Hunt got to where is now is. What has made him become a top professional footballer and why have most other former or current GAA players not achieved that status. Is it because they didn't want to, or is it because they didn't have the skills, or is it because they never got a chance, or is it because they weren't dedicated enough. I am sure there are lots of kids growing up who would love to be professional footballers. What stops them from achieving their GOAL. ?

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 05/12/2014 19:41:10    1676986

Dublin beat Shamrock Rovers in a soccer match in 1974. LOI bigots have never really covered from that one!

Imagine the shame? Imagine Liverpool being beaten in a soccer match by Saracens :-)

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 06/12/2014 08:10:40    1677017

Surely Federer would be more of a hurling man with his bat and ball skills. I'd say he'd make a mighty centre back, skilful and deceptively tough, he'd land the ball anywhere and he'd introoducevthe bicyle puck clearance to hurling like when he knocks the ball behind himself for a winner.. But not much craic !

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7346 - 06/12/2014 19:42:18    1677115

Where to start! I m involved in the gaa in a small club in a weaker county. So i m at the butt of the grass roots! When i read stephens hunts piece i was outraged too. I felt he didnt cover himself in glory. I thought it was a poorly written and thought out piece by him.i cant see how he knows what it takes to work 40 plus hrs a week and train and maintain a near professional sports lifestyle too. People will say he played minor hurling. Its come along way since them days! Its like me reading george best, paul merson, tony adams etc books and thinking pro soccer is all about drinking clubs, fun in the sun and gambling etc. We now expect our amateur gaa players to compete against pro athletes - as seen in oz last month. We expect them to beat them! Thats the level of physical and mental toughness our players have. Declan sweeneysr article in the indo today is also inaccurate or perhaps a poorly placed fact. He mentioned gaa v soccer plsyers games. We had a survey of 12 14-16 yr old players in our develpment squad. The average amount of games between them was 52. Dont just highlight intercounty games in your articles as it doesnt give a full picture of whats actually happening. Hell, i play over 35 and b team soccer and click up as many competitive games a year as hunt but it doesnt make me an expert! Finally look at the response our games are getting on sky sports from the english viewers. I dont know hom many live games ipswich had last year, but i wonder had the the viewing pull of the gaa on sky?? Maybe thats whats worrying mr hunt?! Finally to tarnish the exploits of matty forde and try to belittle his achievement with his county is pretty poor journalism. Hes a retired amateur gaa player whos skill and dedication to an amateur game were second to none. Respected in any county he ever set foot. He has the odd media slot, twitter perhaps, and sweeney have the back page of a national newspaper.

old yellar (None) - Posts: 2625 - 07/12/2014 08:53:08    1677155

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/eamonn-sweeney-describing-gaa-players-as-elite-or-world-class-is-just-waffle-30805047.html />
I think Sweeneys article in todays paper missed the point regarding the complaints about Hunts article.I don't think GAA players were comparing themselves to professional soccer players they were simply pointing out that they make fairly big sacrifices as well and that being paid a pile of money for doing something you really love isn't really as quite as much pressure as most people have to deal with.

His description of Hunts article being measure and intelligent was well off as to be honest its fairly hard to make out what sort of point Hunt was trying to make.If the article was properly structured and written he mightn't have gotten such a reaction but because it was so poorly written it appeared he was having a cut at GAA players rather than making a potentially legitimate point.

Top level GAA players if given the opportunity would be elite athletes unlike what Eamonn says.If Shane long,Tomas O'Leary etc who played GAA at a very high level until they were 18 can make the transition to professional sport I'm pretty sure numerous other GAA players would be able to do it if they dedicated themselves to a professional sport.

essmac, in fairness, you complain about people belittleing football as 'bogball', yet then go on to belittle every english soccer player tnd their league... What is the difference?

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 07/12/2014 11:56:31    1677169

Steven said in his recent article that elite players play 3 games per week..don't know. He is right when he says that Elite soccer is unforgiving. GAA is sport whereas soccer is a sports business. I'm a fan of both sports.

crikey (Australia) - Posts: 355 - 07/12/2014 21:21:11    1677288

s goldrick

I am sure there are lots of kids growing up who would love to be professional footballers. What stops them from achieving their GOAL. ? - Not been good enough is generally the number 1 reason, because to make it in any sport you have to put in hours of extra work, to practice and hone your skills outside of training/match times. This applies to all sportsmen/women. Hunt is NOT a top player in England, he is a fairly average player, because he earns a lot of money maybe this makes him "think" he is, but he is not nearly a top player. In a sport where a youth player or reserve player can earn 12/15K a week earning twice that amount while is a tidy sum puts Hunts "status" into perspective, he is NOT a top player. And Brolly is right he wouldn't last five minutes in the blood and thunder of an Ulster match. But these are silly comparisons

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4897 - 08/12/2014 08:20:18    1677299

arock
County: Dublin
Posts: 2422

1677299
s goldrick

I am sure there are lots of kids growing up who would love to be professional footballers. What stops them from achieving their GOAL. ? - Not been good enough is generally the number 1 reason, because to make it in any sport you have to put in hours of extra work, to practice and hone your skills outside of training/match times. This applies to all sportsmen/women. Hunt is NOT a top player in England, he is a fairly average player, because he earns a lot of money maybe this makes him "think" he is, but he is not nearly a top player. In a sport where a youth player or reserve player can earn 12/15K a week earning twice that amount while is a tidy sum puts Hunts "status" into perspective, he is NOT a top player. And Brolly is right he wouldn't last five minutes in the blood and thunder of an Ulster match. But these are silly comparisons

well as a percentage of all the people who play soccer in England I would say that Hunt was fairly high up as he is a regular in a Top championship side. As a percentage of all the Irish soccer players on the planet I would say he is quite near the top. He has played for Ireland on a number of occasions also. so not sure what your point is. I have already pointed out the stupidity of Brolly's remark re him lasting 5 minutes in an ulster final. If truth be known he would probably last alot more than 5 minutes. he is strong enough,fit enough and probably possesses enough skill with a ball to take a few scores.

but as I say, it's a futile excercise comparing sportsmen of different codes.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 08/12/2014 08:44:40    1677302

Having read all the articles , here is my tuppence worth ,firstly Hunt was in my opinion making a legimate point about the life of a professional sportsman and even though people might think it is stupid resting is not that easy to do when you have to sleep in the middle of the day but it is all part of the fitness regime of a pro athlete , GAA players and supporters have no idea of the dedication it takes to get to the level that even Hunt has got to and even more to stay at that level .Eamonn Sweeney gets it fairly spot on in yesterdays piece about GAA people thinking that they are much better than they really are ,they are no more dedicated or less dedicated than people in other sports in Ireland ,in my opinion track and field and long distance athletes are the most dedicated people that I have come across to there chosen sport ,
Brolly shows a lot of ignorance and snobbery in his article , he insinuates that just because someone is from a working class area that they are in no position to be role models which is a pretty awful comment but then his own profession are hardly the beacons of humanity either and of course he does go back to the usual GAA analogy of using violence as a supposedly sign of sporting prowess.
Both Eamonn Sweeney and Stephen Hunt put him back in his box yesterday in their articles but I am sure he will come back with some more GAA snobbery crap this week .

tinrylandman (Carlow) - Posts: 387 - 08/12/2014 10:44:21    1677319

I'm with Brolly on this one, and not buying all Eamon Sweeney's argument on this , he is after all defending a fellow columnist in same paper . Also I've seen many interviews with Hunt and anyone who thinks he wrote yesterdays himself piece is deluded .

Finsceal (None) - Posts: 559 - 08/12/2014 10:59:26    1677323

tinrylandman
County: Carlow
Posts: 346

1677319 Having read all the articles , here is my tuppence worth ,firstly Hunt was in my opinion making a legimate point about the life of a professional sportsman and even though people might think it is stupid resting is not that easy to do when you have to sleep in the middle of the day but it is all part of the fitness regime of a pro athlete

Going to sleep in the middle of the day is fairly easy to do.I do it every Saturday myself and I never had much problem with it.It should be even easier for the likes of Steven Hunt as if you exercise regularly it helps your sleep.

uibhfhaili1986 (Offaly) - Posts: 1296 - 08/12/2014 11:03:31    1677325

My two cents:

First, the original article wasn't all that offensive, if you take it in its entirety. The main issue for me would be the headline- which would be written by the sub-editor, rather than Hunt himself- and the throwaway line about GAA players not knowing what would hit them. GAA players' commitment should never in question, IMO.

It seems to me that there is an argument to be made that GAA players, marvellous as many of them are, fall short of some of the standards required to make it in professional sport. No shame there, and IMO, our top-level GAA players are really pushing the limits of where amateur/semi-pro sport can take us. The problem, IMO, is that Hunt's argument was badly constructed. Resting and staying in at the weekends shouldn't be too big an imposition when you're earning anywhere from 40k to 200k per week, and indeed, inter-county footballers and hurlers do much the same for no payment at all.

Eamon Sweeney made a better fist of the argument in his piece yesterday, but there are still holes in his line of reasoning. IMO, top-level hurling in particular is superior to EPL in terms of the raw skills and physical courage required, it's just that hurlers can't hope to reach the same levels of fitness/speed as pro sportsmen. Again, no shame there: GAA players punch above their weight in a lot of regards. Likewise, GAA players have acquitted themselves reasonably well against the top-rank AFL guys, so it's reasonable to speculate that they wouldn't be out of place in the pro sporting world if the games were to,hypothetically, go pro at some point. I don't personally want this, but it's just a thought.

Secondly, Joe Brolly should really stop acting as if he represents the everyman of the GAA. He doesn't represent my views, nor those of anyone who I talk to about GAA matters. He has come out the worst of the exchanges with Hunt, purely because he is belittling a wide group of people, and thus loses a lot of goodwill among neutrals. He has really developed into a caricature of himself in the past 18 months or so.

Finally, it would be interesting to see how a skills contest would pan out between Hunt and a top-level GAA player!

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 08/12/2014 11:16:38    1677327

Let me all draw your attention to Stephen Lucey. He studied medicine at UCD, he played football&hurling for UCD as well as u-21's and senior with his club&his county. Think he played more than the 3 matches a week that would tire poor Hunt out so much. We put these mediocre Irish soccer players on a pedestal for "making it" in England. Fine, good for Hunt, he runs about the place, works hard off the ball but ultimately he's just ok, a joirneyman. And before people say "ah he's better than you", I know he is, but just because he plays in England doesn't really make him more entitled to his opinion than Brolly. Fact is, to play county you do give up a massive chunk of your social life, 6am training sessions mean no nights out. Secondly, it's easier to commit to something that pays money than it is to play for free so his point really is mute~PHS

Pope_has_spoken (Dublin) - Posts: 138 - 08/12/2014 12:19:45    1677350

lot of what hunt actually said has been taken out of context....some gaa people are far too easily offended and anti soccer...any professional soccer player who has played premier league and international football which hunt has and also played gaa at a decent level in the past is highly likely to have comfortably been a good inter county player...to try and slag off his achievements is quite laughable as as we have already discussed at lengths on here...it is incredibly difficult to get where hunt has got in soccer and it deserves serious respect

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 08/12/2014 20:00:50    1677480

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/video-mass-brawl-mars-league-match-in-meath-30808828.html

I take it these are the role models that Joe Brolly wants kids to follow

tinrylandman (Carlow) - Posts: 387 - 09/12/2014 15:19:10    1677620

tinrylandman
County: Carlow
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/video-mass-brawl-mars-league-match-in-meath-30808828.html
I take it these are the role models that Joe Brolly wants kids to follow

So because of that incident, you don't think GAA players in general can/should be role models?

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 09/12/2014 15:37:24    1677623

Stupid post Tinryland.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 09/12/2014 15:40:29    1677624