Michael Fennelly will slot in at number 6, he has been playing there with his club and Joey Holden plays full back for Ballyhale. It might not be as hard fill those places as you'd think. Paul Murphy could play in either position as he does for his club also.

Faithfull (Offaly) - Posts: 573 - 27/11/2014 11:03:39    1675150

Under Cody,Kilkenny have won 29% of their record 34 titles.I imagine Cody will be letting Walter Walsh and Mark Kelly that more is expected off them this year.These words seemed to have the desired effect with Richie Power this year.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 27/11/2014 11:42:10    1675160

As a Kilkenny man, there are a few things that stand out in this forum to me.

1). Kilkenny are certainly beatable as 2013 proved and indeed 2 draws this year. Nobody, certainly within Kilkenny feels otherwise.
2). I still wouldn't write them off though. They will be there or thereabouts.
3). Cody is not the reason the were considered unbeatable by many. He was a big part of that, but not completely. He has had excellent backroom teams who deserve credit. The players are the main reason. It is unfair to say otherwise. Without Cody, Kilkenny may not have won 10 but would have won a fair few. Without the players, Cody would not have won any. I'm not slagging Cody, he is a legend and that can never be taken away from him but as he always says, it is the players who drive him on.
4). The 4 gone are massive losses. Their experience cannot be replaced instantly. I think for the past year, there experience may have been more telling in training than matches as say, Tommy was driving Joey Holden and Padraig Walsh hard as they knew he was there for their place and raring to go at any time. This drove the younger lads on. They would also have guided the younger lads through matches in the league etc. However, there is still plenty of experience there.
5). RE. Mark Kelly, JJ Farrell etc, these lads are good hurlers who will get more experience now. Very few fellas are high county standard in Kilkenny instantly. They serve their apprenticeship and gradually earn their place. There are young lads coming through who will add to the panel.
6). Killarney, it is very unfair of you to say Herrity is no loss. This is a man who won 5 All Irelands and served a vital role for Kilkenny over the years. Not many fellas are willing to be sub goalies long term as the chances to play are very limited. He like every goalie makes a few mistakes but I would never say he let Kilkenny down. He got abuse over his performance against Limerick in the semi. This was a miserable cold wet day with high ball after high ball dropping in on him. I don't think Eoin Murphy or any keeper could have done any better. Murphy is a better keep and has to be 1st choice but Herrity was a very good back up. He can leave with his head held high.
7). Tiobrad, I think Fennelly or Buckley will go centre back (Buckley not quite ready yet but long term). Full back is more difficult. Hopefully JJ will stay on for another year or 2. Paul Murphy could do a job there but I'm not completely sold on that idea.

KK4Life (Kilkenny) - Posts: 56 - 27/11/2014 11:47:16    1675162

To those saying "sure tehy didnt start/play much" dont underestimate there importance in the dressing room and at training

Brianmac78 (Dublin) - Posts: 1168 - 27/11/2014 13:13:42    1675187

There is no fear of the cats, plenty of talent knocking around Kilkenny and that's for sure.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 27/11/2014 13:22:27    1675190

the retirements are not going to directly weaken the starting 15, kilkenny always have more players breaking through although centre back could be a problem position to try and nail someone down but there is plenty of genuine options. joyce, fennelly, buckley and lester ryan could all do a job there. personally i like michael fennelly in this position although i am a big fan of joyce and was surprised that he didnt play more often this year. fullback could be a problem once jj goes but paul murphy is a class player and im sure he could fill in. when jj and jackie are both gone though kilkennys defense definitely will not be as strong as it once was because they might struggle to find good enough replacements.
i agree that some of the players that are on the fringe of the panel are not good enough and i dont think they will be either. such as holden, farrell and kelly. i never rated herity as a player, i think he was very dodgy.
tiobraid made a great point in saying that kilkenny arent going anywhere but are beatable, i think he sums it up perfectly there.

hurlingexpert (Clare) - Posts: 1941 - 27/11/2014 14:45:28    1675206

Personally I don't believe Holden could play full back. Fennelly could be a master stroke at centre back tho.

Moving Paul Murphy in full back would sound an easy option but I wouldnt agree. It's very much a specialist position. Murphy is an all action type of player. Nothing wrong with that but JJ plays full back in the safe way, the way I'd prefer to see a full back playing.

You wouldn't know until you get put in there but I'd be surprised to see him moved in there. Tyrell for example can't play that role

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 27/11/2014 16:16:27    1675218

Wexford will go up to Nowlan Park and leave these cats with their tail between their legs ;)

Joking aside, I think rumours of Kilkenny's demise have yet again been greatly exaggerated. They won Senior and Minor All-Irelands this year, and still have a depth of talent which no other county has.

For me, they will be only marginally weaker next year.

Pinkie (Wexford) - Posts: 4100 - 27/11/2014 16:37:30    1675224

No one who started the all Ireland replay has retired as yet so the biggest impact on Kilkenny is that the fear factor there bench put in the minds of opponents this year won't be as strong next year,that aside i felt the gap had closed before these retirements,e.g from 2009-2011 Tipperary were the only team capable of beating Kilkenny but this year limerick and Tipperary both came within a whisker of beating them,cork and Dublin beat them last year and if Clare and Galway get their mojo back they will certainly be good enough to put it up to them

bostonredsox (Wexford) - Posts: 4368 - 27/11/2014 19:50:27    1675258

The bottom line is when has it looked kilkenny were going to lose? They have always done enough. Tipp and cork beat then in 10 and 13 but sure when you look at it injuries didn't do the cats any favours. Coping with retirements will be no prob. Eddie Brennan, cha, john dalton, Tennyson, gorta as well as noel hickey have all came and went. The following year who was lifting Liam? The Cats. When is a team in the last ten minutes going to step up and beat them? They've never looked liked loosing maybe bar the 2014 free in the drawn game. Kilkenny out played in the league final this year still win it. July 2013 in Nowlan park, apparently on their last legs and tipp will finish them with ease. Result? A depleted cats team by 3!

222 (UK) - Posts: 695 - 28/11/2014 10:53:22    1675298

They certainly rode their luck in winning both the League and All Ireland.Tipperary can count themselves very unlucky not to have won both.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 28/11/2014 12:13:14    1675317

Dont know where youre getting that from cuederocket.
Only a late surge by Tipp earned them a draw first time round and the cats deservedly won the replay.
(And it was never a free in the first game).
People keep making excuses for the cats dominance, and people keep saying stuff like "next year theyll be caught".
I cant think of a single reason why the cats wont continue their dominance in the years ahead.

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 29/11/2014 16:56:28    1675481

Kilkenny won a league final in extra time when the TG4 cameras showed a Kilkenny point was actually a wide and a legitimate Tipp point was given as a wide.Would this count as riding your luck jon?

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 29/11/2014 17:32:42    1675487

And dont get me started on the changing of the penalty rule for the All Ire,when Kilkenny scored 2 penalties from 14 yards out in League final.A rule change that,in my humble opinion,cost Tipp the All Ireland.Talk about cruel luck??

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 29/11/2014 17:35:30    1675488

The penalty rule is ridiculous I agree. Its way too far out and it probably did cost Tipp dear but even taking this into consideration the cats overpowered them over the two games and were deserving winners imo.
Im not too worried about the league tbh. If tipp deserved to win that fair enough but unfortunately teams arent too worried about winning the league.

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 29/11/2014 18:27:25    1675500

KK will keep going as long as JJ and Jackie do, when they retire I believe Tipp will finally get the better of KK with Clare and Limerick also winning all Ireland's in the near future.

therealtmo (Tipperary) - Posts: 1292 - 29/11/2014 18:50:03    1675507

Kilkenny did not overpower Tipp in the drawn final.Tipp had 6/7 great goal chances.I stand over my original post,in which you pulled me up over.Kilkenny rode their luck in last years League and All Ireland finals and Tipperary can count themselves unlucky not to have won 1,if not both.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 29/11/2014 19:00:01    1675514

Is there nothing these Kilkenny boys can't do regarding stick & ball?

Well done to Davy Morris today on knocking out the WC!

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8596 - 29/11/2014 21:39:24    1675533

All players are replaceable to a degree. Sometimes people get too bound up in the importance of a certain player, good and all as they may be. Take JJ for example, an outstanding hurler by any standard. Yet, in the draw and replay this year he gave up 2-5 from play (of course he hurled a lot of ball but if every player conceded that from play, a team would lose). Pat Horgan took him for a spin around Thurles last year and then there's the Limerick semi this year. My point therefore is that someone like Paul Murphy could easily slot in there and replace him- he might not be the same type of player as Delaney but he would be equally as good.
M Fennelly hurls centre-back for his club etc. As a Clareman, I said at the start of 2014 that Kk would win the All-Ireland. I'll take the same starting position for 2015.

1914 (Clare) - Posts: 92 - 30/11/2014 11:44:43    1675539

Yes realdub,as a big snooker fan all my life,it was great to see young Morris beat the reigning world champion.The cats certainly have that hand eye co-ordination down to a tee.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 30/11/2014 11:46:42    1675540