ROS1
County: Roscommon
Posts: 170

My point was while Ulster is competitive i don't think as many teams are capable of winning it as some posters think.

still, if you were a betting man, would you fork out a pile of money laying the likes of Derry,down,tyrone.
I doubt it ?

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 20/11/2014 09:34:51    1673545

Ros1 "in any case Armagh were the second best Ulster team last year."

How come Monaghan beat them in the Ulster Semi Final and got as far as them in the AI? Me thinks that your logic requires some fine-tuning. I fancy a Monaghan/Derry Final, with a tight result for the Oriel.

Monaghan08 (Monaghan) - Posts: 188 - 20/11/2014 10:02:29    1673556

Aye I suppose. For all the chat about how competitive it is, only 4 teams have won the thing since 1998. But no matter how good a team is in Ulster, if they're not on their game, they're likely to get done on any given day.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9154 - 20/11/2014 10:22:57    1673561

S goldrick i am not a betting man but i would have no problem putting money on Derry or Down not winning ulster, you never know with Tryone. Monaghan i think most neutral people who say that Armagh were the better then Monaghan last years and the were the better team then Donegal in the other quarter final. Monaghan got to the quarter final by some very generous frees in there wins over Kildare. Tiawley we will turn up in Castlebar although there is a lot of football to be played before that and neither Roscommon or Mayo might not get to the final.

ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 20/11/2014 10:42:54    1673571

Its true that only 4 teams may have won ulster since 1998, but every single county have gotten to the final plus every single one of the big guns have been put out by the smaller teams.

I would fill the page if i started to list the big shock results in the ulster championship but to put it another way, in the 00's donegal were beaten by every single one of the ulster counties, including antrim in ballybofey.

It is a dogfight, and there is nowhere to hide if you are in any way weak on a given day.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 20/11/2014 12:36:02    1673627

Ros1 I know the people of Roscommon have a soft spot for kildare because of the great Dermot Earley, but get a grip McManus was pulled and dragged from the first whistle to the lastby Ollie Lyons. Is pulling the jersey allowed? No, punishment is a free. is Wrapping your arms around a man and holding him back a foul? yes it is, Punishment is a free. Is bumping a fella with your chest in a fella's back when he's going for a ball a free? yes, watch over the game again and find a soft free. Stick to your own province and let the ulster people debate this topic.

shaggylegend (Monaghan) - Posts: 1928 - 20/11/2014 14:04:02    1673666

ROS1
County: Roscommon
Posts: 173

1673571
S goldrick i am not a betting man but i would have no problem putting money on Derry or Down not winning ulster, you never know with Tryone. Monaghan i think most neutral people who say that Armagh were the better then Monaghan last years and the were the better team then Donegal in the other quarter final. Monaghan got to the quarter final by some very generous frees in there wins over Kildare. Tiawley we will turn up in Castlebar although there is a lot of football to be played before that and neither Roscommon or Mayo might not get to the final.

Ok so now you have added Tyrone to the list of possible winners. so its now:Donegal,Monaghan,Armagh and Tyrone.
and you would put any money on none of the other 5 winning ?

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 20/11/2014 14:28:28    1673684

S Goldrick i never excluded Tyrone while I doubt the will win you never know with them and yes i would bet on none of the other five winning great if the do, i like to see other teams coming through anywhere but i cant see them winning it. Shaggy your attitude is typical of a few ulster posters on here if you don't agree with us you cant post here. I could not care less who won between Monaghan and Kildare do you have a bias towards Meath because a Monaghan man has managed them? In fact i know a lot more people in Monaghan then Kildare. I could see that McManus got some very very easy frees including the last won which put the game into extra time which was not at all a free, i would say the same if there was any other 2 counties involved.

ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 20/11/2014 15:42:26    1673716

I predict next year, that mayo will win connaught without any surprises, that the dubs will win leinster without any shocks on the way there, that kerry will win munster, without any difficulty and will meet cork in the final, and donegal/tyrone/armagh will get beaten by derry/down who in turn will meet cavan in the final and possibly win it but only just.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 20/11/2014 19:24:25    1673821

Bit puzzled why the referee's performance in the Monaghan-Kildare game is being talked about again at the end of November, even stranger is that it's a Roscommon person bringing it up. We won a tight game fair and square. And saying most neutrals would think Armagh were better than Monaghan is also a bit weird. That they lost by less to Donegal than we did means nothing, that's the worst kind of logic to use in any sport. Fact it we both got to the same stage of the championship only we beat them in the process. If you take the league into account, we won division 2 while they got relegated. All of this is irrelevant now though clearly. They're a coming team and I fully expect them to compete strong in Ulster next year.

Anyway on topic, Ulster is indeed interesting next year. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't happy with the draw given the way the other side is set up, but that doesn't mean it isn't difficult for us. A derby game in Breffni is a big test, and Cavan will be just as happy with the draw as we are. No disrespect to Antrim or Fermanagh, but whoever wins our game will be looking very good for an Ulster final, so there's more than local bragging rights at stake. The other side is so tough to call. Donegal would have to favourites to make it out but coming from the preliminary round in that draw will be so tough. Them or Armagh would be my pick to come out of it.

patk (Monaghan) - Posts: 936 - 20/11/2014 20:25:34    1673844

Well from my perspective I will be backing Down to win ulster the massive boost that both Mooney and clarke returningi think could bring an end to their 21 year wait for an Ulster title. Down have always underachieved but I think this could be their year.

shaggylegend (Monaghan) - Posts: 1928 - 20/11/2014 21:01:02    1673855

It's monaghans to lose if you ask me, quite simply by the draw they got, I think Cavan will give them their fill of it but I expect them to get through it, whoever comes through from the other side will be half killed to get there......... I would also say that Monaghan will be very hungry to win another ulster as this group of players will believe they will need another one to prove they have been one of the better teams down through the years, this coupled with the draw and a with a brilliant manager in malachy o rourke (before he heads of to manage Tyrone) they do look the team to beat...

I off course will change this opinion if we are to meet them in the final.............

ben1977 (Donegal) - Posts: 364 - 21/11/2014 15:29:54    1674001

I would say that it could be a cavan year if they shape up well in the league, plus they start to use their lethal forwards.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 21/11/2014 21:07:34    1674064

Realistically Ulster will be between Donegal, Tyrone and Derry with teams like Armagh, Monaghan, Down and Cavan making it a very tough Ulster Championship.

Donegal have exceptional experience, with Michael Murphy, McGee's, Neil Gallagher, The McHugh's, McLoone, McBrearty, McGrath, Durkin etc still very much in their prime. Jim McGuinness has been replaced by the man who spent almost 4 years at his side, a man who basically knows the drill. Like them or loath them, history will show that they beat everybody in Ulster and every top side in Ireland between 2011 and 2014. This has been a Golden era for Donegal football, and I really don't think its over yet.

Tyrone are a major force in All Ireland football, and last season didn't do the 2013 All Ireland Semi finalists justice. I don't honestly think Armagh would have beaten Tyrone, had Mattie Donnelly not been sent off around the 27th minutes. And I felt they were better than Monaghan, and were in hindsight probably robbed. I genuinely feel Tyrone and Donegal are a cut above the rest in Ulster, in terms of their overall strength across the pitch.

Derry have been dismissed almost purely because of their exit to Longford in the Qualifier, yet All Ireland runners up Donegal only beat us by a kick of the ball in Ulster. This Derry team will be stronger this year, and I expect the experience of rubbing shoulders with the likes of Dublin, Cork, Kerry, Mayo, Donegal etc last season will bring them on that bit further. I believe an Ulster title is a realistic goal, however the team need to be become less rigid with positions and more ruthless in attack. I genuinely feel Derry have the talent to rival Donegal and Tyrone, however getting that talent to gel will be the problem.

Monaghan Winning the 2013 Ulster title let that cat out of the bag. Now everybody in Ulster considers them to be very dangerous, and that is a major problem for the team. As they will not catch the likes of Donegal, Tyrone, Armagh, Derry etc cold, and they have an exceptionally tricky opener against a tough Cavan side who will relish thumping their Div 1 neighbours. I can see Cavan beating Monaghan in the Ulster QF, It certainly wouldn't be a shock to me.

Armagh Lot of hype over Armagh with Kieran McGeeney at the helm, and how Implementing a blanket last season reaped them huge rewards. The one major Issue I have with this Armagh team, Is that they lack serious firepower up front apart from Jamie Clarke who is outstanding. That rules them out as a serious contender for Ulster, regardless of how good their blanket system and all round physicality will be next season.

Down will be stronger next season, and fresh faces will no doubt make them a handful. Only time will tell though if they can produce the goods though, as last season they seemed lackluster in the replay with Tyrone and lost Interest in the Qualifier stages. They have proved they can match almost anybody on the day, however doing that consistently over 3 or 4 matches is always a problem for Down.

Cavan were caught out by Armagh last season, and have a similar type match with Monaghan waiting for them. I actually think Cavan may well scalp Monaghan, Just have a weird feeling they will be more up for that game than any other in recent times. I still don't think Cavan have the forwards to seriously challenge Ulster's top dogs, but they aren't far off everywhere else on the pitch.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 22/11/2014 13:20:02    1674170

Monaghan Winning the 2013 Ulster title let that cat out of the bag. Now everybody in Ulster considers them to be very dangerous, and that is a major problem for the team. As they will not catch the likes of Donegal, Tyrone, Armagh, Derry etc cold, and they have an exceptionally tricky opener against a tough Cavan side who will relish thumping their Div 1 neighbours. I can see Cavan beating Monaghan in the Ulster QF, It certainly wouldn't be a shock to me.

In the 2014 championship Monaghan beat both Tyrone and Armagh. So your logic is gone out the window straight away. Derry are nowhere near the top tier of Ulster football. The Top tier of Ulster football is Donegal,Monaghan,Armagh and Tyrone at the minute. You don't rate Monaghan that is obvious but to say Teams won't be caught cold by Monaghan because they won an ulster in 2013.

So Gary explain to me how monaghan beat Tyrone and Armagh this year if they couldn't have been caught cold? Armagh in particular lost after two games so if they where caught cold in the drawn game did the armagh boys freeze the second day?

shaggylegend (Monaghan) - Posts: 1928 - 22/11/2014 13:53:56    1674176

Think whoever comes out of Breffini Park will win ulster as the last two Ulster champions came from easier side of draw. We lost our Ulster title having to play Armagh twice.Very difficult to peak for three four games in a row. Cavan or Monaghan will only need to play well twice to win Ulster big advantage.

seanie08 (Monaghan) - Posts: 1802 - 22/11/2014 14:01:09    1674178

Once again the only title worth talking about next year. Can't wait for even if it's not pure enough for the purists! Plenty of close exciting matches to come.

Jack_Goff (Meath) - Posts: 2920 - 22/11/2014 15:33:08    1674196

shaggylegend
County: Monaghan
Posts: 1213

1674176
In the 2014 championship Monaghan beat both Tyrone and Armagh. So your logic is gone out the window straight away. Derry are nowhere near the top tier of Ulster football. The Top tier of Ulster football is Donegal,Monaghan,Armagh and Tyrone at the minute. You don't rate Monaghan that is obvious but to say Teams won't be caught cold by Monaghan because they won an ulster in 2013.

So Gary explain to me how monaghan beat Tyrone and Armagh this year if they couldn't have been caught cold? Armagh in particular lost after two games so if they where caught cold in the drawn game did the armagh boys freeze the second day?

My logic is sound, pre-2013 Monaghan were considered by most people to be rough neck outfit with little hope of winning Ulster. I remember speaking to two Tyrone fans after their 2012 National League match with Monaghan, and their general description of Monaghan was to dismiss them as a team who compensate for talent with physicality( Not the exact words used ).

While there is no denying Monaghan's physical nature, I personally felt they had a host of talent. In saying that, I still believed Donegal and Tyrone have had stronger overall starting 15 and squad. However Monaghan were still being dismissed as a force entering 2013 Championship and this is what gave them the edge needed to win Ulster.

2014 Championship was different, Tyrone looked certain to beat Monaghan in the dying minutes and looked the better side. This was the opposite to the 2013 AI QF when Monaghan were the better team and should have won. Armagh who many expected to be swept aside by Monaghan, forced a deserved replay and ran Monaghan close. Donegal then put them to the sword in the final, having sized Monaghan up perfectly in the Division 2 final.

The Cat was out of the bag in 2014, nobody was dismissing Monaghan anymore.

Derry in my honest opinion have the players to rival Donegal and Tyrone, all we need is run like Armagh had in 2014 to make the squad gel, and make them believe. Talent only gets you so far, you need to believe you can do it. I think Derry have the firepower and the strength across the pitch.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 23/11/2014 16:06:52    1674347